Kevin, KF7MYK, provides a great example of what happens when operators do not use phonetics. You may think you are saving time by not using them, but the fact is that unless someone is familiar with your callsign, they may copy it incorrectly. You want everyone on the bird to have your callsign correct so they can call you with the right call rather than having to ask for it again in phonetics, or worse yet, getting it wrong.
If you call someone using just their suffix, it means that you don't have their prefix. When you hear someone call you that way, you know they need the missing part of your call. If you have someone's complete callsign, don't call them by their suffix. That's not their callsign. Sometimes you only hear the grid square and call someone that way. This is an indicator that you need the persons complete callsign. A complete exchange is what we should strive for.
If you call someone with an incorrect call, other stations pick up on that callsign and the inaccuracy propagates throughout the pass. You find yourself looking them up on qrz.com and not finding a match. Then you are listening to the recording and trying to figure out where you went wrong.
Satellites have varying audio quality and the users radios are all over the place in terms of level and clarity. Phonetics will get the callsign through correctly and avoid the problems associated with not getting it right. Everyone is not copying the bird full quieting. Give them half a chance.
Also keep in mind that when you are working someone whose first language is not English, they may have even more trouble with your callsign if you don't use proper phonetics. Many non-English speaking amateurs know just enough to copy a callsign, give you their name, report and QTH. They learn the International Phonetic Alphabet and will recognize the words associated with the letters. If you use some other words, they may not understand what letters you are trying to convey. Adjust your operating based on who you are trying to work.
Remember that everyone on the bird is listening to your QSO and hopefully writing down your callsign for future reference. Use phonetics and SLOW DOWN. Don't run your grid square into the end of your callsign. Announce your callsign at a constant pace. This methodology will help everyone get it right the first time and save airtime in the long run.
All this, of course, in my humble opinion.
73, John K8YSE
The question of "proper" phonetics comes up several times a month in threads on QRZ.com. Unfortunately, the ICAO phonetics (alpha, bravo, etc.) present problems when regional accents in the United States are present and even more so when the person involved does not have English as their primary language.
ICAO phonetics were adopted for use on radio circuits that are usually free of QRM, QSB, etc., by trained operators. Unfortunately, amateur radio operations are often not QRM, QSB, etc., free and the vast number of amateur radio operators are not professionally trained.
The ICAO phonetics were adopted by the military decades ago and generally work well for military communications. However, military operators are very well trained.
Those operators who are involved in "DX chasing" and contest operations often use geographic names instead of the ICAO phonetics. This procedure works very well when QRM and QSB are present as well as with operators who do not have English as their primary language.
When working stations that have English as their primary language I do use the ICAO phonetics for my call: Kilo Nine Sierra Tango Hotel. However, when working DX my call is very often not fully understood. Under those circumstances I use: Kilowatt Nine Spain Texas Honolulu and my call is understood the first time 99.99% of the time.
Then there is the case of a local YL operator who's call ends in the letter "i". She was working a DX station who just could not get the last letter in her call. She tried the ICAO "India" and that did not work. She tried the geographical name "Italy" and that did not work. Therefore she tried all sorts of words starting with the letter "i" and they did not work. Finally, in frustration she called out "idiot"! The DX station got her last letter that time!
Basically, the ICAO phonetics are the standard for general amateur radio operations. Geographic names are the pseudo standard for working DX. But, as the local YL found out, you use anything that works!
Glen, K9STH Head moderator QRZ.com
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Sat, 4/9/11, John Papay [email protected] wrote:
Kevin, KF7MYK, provides a great example of what happens when operators do not use phonetics. You may think you are saving time by not using them, but the fact is that unless someone is familiar with your callsign, they may copy it incorrectly. You want everyone on the bird to have your callsign correct so they can call you with the right call rather than having to ask for it again in phonetics, or worse yet, getting it wrong.
The use of Kilowatt as a phonetic is a pet peeve of mine especially where there is a brief pause between kilo and watt. When I hear kilo I assume the letter k is being represented, then when I hear watt I have to decide if the sender is also representing the letter w or not.
It seems overly confusing to me.
Although some people say kilowatt is two words, it definitely is not. In over 50 years of using "kilowatt" as a phonetic I have not once had a station think it is KW. Kilowatt makes it through QRM and QSB a LOT better than "kilo". Some operators do use "Kansas" or "Korea" for the letter "K".
Glen, K9STH
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Sun, 4/10/11, Mark Spencer [email protected] wrote:
The use of Kilowatt as a phonetic is a pet peeve of mine especially where there is a brief pause between kilo and watt. When I hear kilo I assume the letter k is being represented, then when I hear watt I have to decide if the sender is also representing the letter w or not.
It seems overly confusing to me.
Glen, Engineers use KW for kilowatt. That might explain my confusion using KW abbreviation as an occupation for 30 years before becoming an Amateur Radio Operator. Art, KC6UQH -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Glen Zook Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 9:33 AM To: [email protected]; Mark Spencer Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Need for Phonetics
Although some people say kilowatt is two words, it definitely is not. In over 50 years of using "kilowatt" as a phonetic I have not once had a station think it is KW. Kilowatt makes it through QRM and QSB a LOT better than "kilo". Some operators do use "Kansas" or "Korea" for the letter "K".
Glen, K9STH
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Sun, 4/10/11, Mark Spencer [email protected] wrote:
The use of Kilowatt as a phonetic is a pet peeve of mine especially where there is a brief pause between kilo and watt. When I hear kilo I assume the letter k is being represented, then when I hear watt I have to decide if the sender is also representing the letter w or not.
It seems overly confusing to me.
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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I couldn't agree more. When I am not being understood or I have repeated my call 5 or 6 times and the guy on the other end is still getting it wrong, a simple switch from Kilo to Kilowatt and zulu to Zanzibar is usually all it takes to be understood.
Ron KK7Z
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Glen Zook Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 11:33 AM To: [email protected]; Mark Spencer Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: The Need for Phonetics
Although some people say kilowatt is two words, it definitely is not. In over 50 years of using "kilowatt" as a phonetic I have not once had a station think it is KW. Kilowatt makes it through QRM and QSB a LOT better than "kilo". Some operators do use "Kansas" or "Korea" for the letter "K".
Glen, K9STH
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Sun, 4/10/11, Mark Spencer [email protected] wrote:
The use of Kilowatt as a phonetic is a pet peeve of mine especially where there is a brief pause between kilo and watt. When I hear kilo I assume the letter k is being represented, then when I hear watt I have to decide if the sender is also representing the letter w or not.
It seems overly confusing to me.
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I have to agree!!
The phonetics in the phonetic alphabet were chosen for a reason. They are very hard to confuse with another letter.
Fancy phonetics have no place in communications that you want understood.
If you want to get a call sign correct use the standard phonetic alphabet. That way everyone is playing by the same play sheet.
If you like to be misunderstood, continue to use your non standard confusing phonetics and you will get your wish.
73 Glenn WB4UIV
At 12:14 PM 4/10/2011, Mark Spencer wrote:
The use of Kilowatt as a phonetic is a pet peeve of mine especially where there is a brief pause between kilo and watt. When I hear kilo I assume the letter k is being represented, then when I hear watt I have to decide if the sender is also representing the letter w or not.
It seems overly confusing to me.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sorry, John. Information here needs to jive better with the history.
ICAO developed a phonetic alphabet in the mid-to late 1940's to help the budding field of international aviation. They came up with an alphabet designed to be spoken (and mangled) by people of any mother tongue and be well understood by all others, even on less than wonderful channels.
It works so well that ITU, maritime folks, generally, and many other well recognized organizations (including the US military) have seen fit to adopt it. When everyone uses the same alphabet, understanding is even better.
See attachment for a recommendation, including the ITU recommended pronunciation guide. Seems to work just fine.
I hope this helps.
GL & 73, art..... W4ART Arlington VA
On 10-Apr-2011, at 11:26 AM, Glen Zook wrote:
The question of "proper" phonetics comes up several times a month in threads on QRZ.com. Unfortunately, the ICAO phonetics (alpha, bravo, etc.) present problems when regional accents in the United States are present and even more so when the person involved does not have English as their primary language.
ICAO phonetics were adopted for use on radio circuits that are usually free of QRM, QSB, etc., by trained operators. Unfortunately, amateur radio operations are often not QRM, QSB, etc., free and the vast number of amateur radio operators are not professionally trained.
The ICAO phonetics were adopted by the military decades ago and generally work well for military communications. However, military operators are very well trained.
Those operators who are involved in "DX chasing" and contest operations often use geographic names instead of the ICAO phonetics. This procedure works very well when QRM and QSB are present as well as with operators who do not have English as their primary language.
When working stations that have English as their primary language I do use the ICAO phonetics for my call: Kilo Nine Sierra Tango Hotel. However, when working DX my call is very often not fully understood. Under those circumstances I use: Kilowatt Nine Spain Texas Honolulu and my call is understood the first time 99.99% of the time.
Then there is the case of a local YL operator who's call ends in the letter "i". She was working a DX station who just could not get the last letter in her call. She tried the ICAO "India" and that did not work. She tried the geographical name "Italy" and that did not work. Therefore she tried all sorts of words starting with the letter "i" and they did not work. Finally, in frustration she called out "idiot"! The DX station got her last letter that time!
Basically, the ICAO phonetics are the standard for general amateur radio operations. Geographic names are the pseudo standard for working DX. But, as the local YL found out, you use anything that works!
Glen, K9STH Head moderator QRZ.com
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Sat, 4/9/11, John Papay [email protected] wrote:
Kevin, KF7MYK, provides a great example of what happens when operators do not use phonetics. You may think you are saving time by not using them, but the fact is that unless someone is familiar with your callsign, they may copy it incorrectly. You want everyone on the bird to have your callsign correct so they can call you with the right call rather than having to ask for it again in phonetics, or worse yet, getting it wrong.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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participants (7)
-
Art McBride -
Glen Zook -
Glenn Little WB4UIV -
John Papay -
Mark Spencer -
Ron Settle -
W4ART Arthur Feller