This is a hobby
Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to HEO
Nickk k5qxj
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
This is a hobby, but Amsat is the Corporation whose purpose is to provide us with the means to enjoy our hobby.
The Board of Directors is elected by the membership...with (unfortunately) all the political crap and personality clashes that come with elections. There's nothing anybody can do about it except to support people you believe are good and challenge decisions and policies you don't like.
I don't like what's been going on and I'm not completely convinced by the Board's explanation so I try to get involved in my own small way. I hope the Board can settle their differences as well. A lot has been said on both sides that will make reconciliation difficult, but I live in hope.
73,
Ken Alexander, VE3HLS So Phisai, Thailand Blog: bueng-ken.com
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 11:38 AM Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
This is a hobby
Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to HEO
Nickk k5qxj
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and weren’t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same people for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so our choices are limited.
John AG9D
On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
This is a hobby
Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to HEO
Nickk k5qxj
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I'm guessing it's more complex than that. I suspect this is really about ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to ORI. MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
Rich, KD2CQ AMSAT life member
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and weren’t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same people for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so our choices are limited.
John AG9D
On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
This is a hobby
Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to HEO
Nickk k5qxj
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:39 AM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I'm guessing it's more complex than that. I suspect this is really about ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to ORI. MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
This is completely baseless.
I am an officer for ORI, and the projects that ORI is pursuing are almost completely independent of AMSAT. ORI's space-related projects are focused on digital mode microwave technologies, an emerging set of technologies that AMSAT has not shown any substantial interest in or development for. The current ORI project work for possible future space missions are primarily for Lunar Gateway, which AMSAT has not expressed any interest in.
ORI has already produced open-source project outcomes which contribute to both space-based and terrestrial experimentation and use cases.
All this is easily discoverable, because ORI has been transparent with both their funding and engineering. Here's an update from last month.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRFYdNJbECA
Steve Conklin AI4QR
I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general public, free of charge.
We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware, and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave broadband communications payloads.
We've published open source implementations of the best forward error correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license that anyone in the community can use.
The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't even compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a positive.
All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going. Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.
While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for members. We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT publicly.
If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be anti-collaborative.
If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I'm guessing it's more complex than that. I suspect this is really about ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to ORI. MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
Rich, KD2CQ AMSAT life member
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and weren’t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same people for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so our choices are limited.
John AG9D
On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
This is a hobby
Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to
HEO
Nickk k5qxj
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks Michelle. I did not intend to imply that people associated with ORI shouldn't be on the AMSAT board. I'm trying to understand if there's an agenda behind a multi-year attempt at getting a majority on the AMSAT board - including very public accusations against the existing board and leadership.
I think that would help people make up their mind about how to vote.
Rich KD2CQ
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michelle Thompson < [email protected]> wrote:
I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general public, free of charge.
We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware, and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave broadband communications payloads.
We've published open source implementations of the best forward error correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license that anyone in the community can use.
The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't even compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a positive.
All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going. Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.
While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for members. We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT publicly.
If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be anti-collaborative.
If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I'm guessing it's more complex than that. I suspect this is really about ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to ORI. MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
Rich, KD2CQ AMSAT life member
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and weren’t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same
people
for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so our choices are limited.
John AG9D
On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
This is a hobby
Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us to
HEO
Nickk k5qxj
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The only agenda is to serve the members.
I want to work with people that provide basic corporate oversight, support the ITAR/EAR public domain carve outs, and see the value in microwave broadband digital payload work.
That won't happen with the incumbents.
They can't even be bothered to hold meetings.
Therefore, I and others have spoken up.
Please send us a team that can get ambitious things done.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 14:25 Rich Gopstein [email protected] wrote:
Thanks Michelle. I did not intend to imply that people associated with ORI shouldn't be on the AMSAT board. I'm trying to understand if there's an agenda behind a multi-year attempt at getting a majority on the AMSAT board - including very public accusations against the existing board and leadership.
I think that would help people make up their mind about how to vote.
Rich KD2CQ
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michelle Thompson < [email protected]> wrote:
I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general public, free of charge.
We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware, and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave broadband communications payloads.
We've published open source implementations of the best forward error correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license that anyone in the community can use.
The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't even compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a positive.
All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going. Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.
While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for members. We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT publicly.
If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be anti-collaborative.
If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I'm guessing it's more complex than that. I suspect this is really about ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to ORI. MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
Rich, KD2CQ AMSAT life member
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and weren’t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same
people
for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so
our
choices are limited.
John AG9D
On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <[email protected]
wrote:
This is a hobby
Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us
to HEO
Nickk k5qxj
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Serve whose members?
On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:20 AM Michelle Thompson via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
The only agenda is to serve the members.
I want to work with people that provide basic corporate oversight, support the ITAR/EAR public domain carve outs, and see the value in microwave broadband digital payload work.
That won't happen with the incumbents.
They can't even be bothered to hold meetings.
Therefore, I and others have spoken up.
Please send us a team that can get ambitious things done.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 14:25 Rich Gopstein [email protected] wrote:
Thanks Michelle. I did not intend to imply that people associated with ORI shouldn't be on the AMSAT board. I'm trying to understand if there's an agenda behind a multi-year attempt at getting a majority on the AMSAT board - including very public accusations against the existing board and leadership.
I think that would help people make up their mind about how to vote.
Rich KD2CQ
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michelle Thompson < [email protected]> wrote:
I can speak to this. Thank you for the opportunity.
It's the other way around. ORI provides all engineering to the general public, free of charge.
We've pledged our successful fundraising to directly benefit AMSAT in every way we know how. We've done significant legal and regulatory work to reduce ITAR/EAR burden, produced a wide variety of software and firmware, and now have the funds to prototype the hardware required for microwave broadband communications payloads.
We've published open source implementations of the best forward error correction codes that exist. We just bought a full Vivado floating license that anyone in the community can use.
The board and associate members (we have no paid members, so we don't even compete there) have been completely transparent about the intent and purpose of the engineering done by ORI.
ORI is a Member Society of AMSAT.
It's odd how ORI is portrayed here, yet Directors current and previous that have dual roles - such as working for NASA, working at Universities with commercial satellite projects, and working for commercial satellite companies - simply never get any criticism for using AMSAT to help their career or projects. In many cases, AMSAT has been used to further outside or commercial careers. Many of these people are unquestionably celebrated.
When someone (like myself) that starts a successful 501(c)(3) that works in the opposite direction - freely giving to the organization and supporting it whenever possible - one would hope it would be perceived as a positive.
All of this engineering and fundraising was the exact sort of thing I was doing within AMSAT engineering. When Joe Spier shut down the entire project, the dozens of people on the team asked if we could keep going. Bruce Perens was instrumental here in helping set up a 501(c)(3) that could operate as a research institute. And the rest is documented on our website.
While people like me shouldn't have to set up an entirely independent formal structure to volunteer for the AMSAT community, it has turned out to be fun, successful, and quite complementary to AMSAT's aims and purposes.
ORI is not a membership organization. It's not in competition for members. We sign up AMSAT members at every event we hold. We promote AMSAT publicly.
If the leadership of AMSAT really wants to view organizations like ORI as some sort of threat or crisis, then they are deliberately choosing to be anti-collaborative.
If you have to have Directors that don't have any other interests outside AMSAT, then you will end up with people that don't bring things like a strong network, experiences, or other organizational assets to the job.
Should Tom Clark have been thrown off the AMSAT board because he was also on the Virginia Tech Space Advisory Board? Should Brennan Price not be Secretary because he works for Inmarsat?
The opposite is also true. Ordinary people with ordinary common sense should also be in leadership. Diversity on the board can only improve it.
-Michelle W5NYV
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 1:43 PM Rich Gopstein via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
I'm guessing it's more complex than that. I suspect this is really about ORI and trying to get AMSAT to outsource their satellite engineering to ORI. MIchelle Thompson is the CEO of ORI...
https://openresearch.institute/board-of-directors/
Rich, KD2CQ AMSAT life member
On Sat, Jul 11, 2020 at 8:34 AM John Spasojevich via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
All reads to me like a couple people broke into the old boys club and weren’t welcomed to the playground. AMSAT has been run by the same
people
for years and years and years. Then again not many run for office so
our
choices are limited.
John AG9D
On Saturday, July 11, 2020, Nick Pugh via AMSAT-BB <[email protected]
wrote:
This is a hobby
Spending money on lawyer instead of satellite is dumb
My hope is you get on a Zoom call and put the fire out and take us
to HEO
Nickk k5qxj
Cell 337 258 2527
Helping UL become a world Class Engineering and Educational School
Disagree I Learn
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings:
https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (7)
-
John Spasojevich -
Joseph Armbruster -
Kenneth P Alexander -
Michelle Thompson -
Nick Pugh -
Rich Gopstein -
Steve Conklin