Falconsat3 ASTARS Network Concept
Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency response traffic into and out of remote disaster areas.
Its file store and forward BBS using the PACSAT protocol is ideal for getting multiline messages, and pictures and data out of an area. Amateur radio Sateliltes sort of abandoned this concept with the rise of the internet. And then the short, real-time contact capability of APRS better matched the shorter attention span of the evolving users.
But now we have both in Falconsat3. But we also now have the Internet and can integrate a worldwide collection of satstations capturing all the downlink PACSAT BBS packets and building a WEB portal on the ground that always mirrors the traffic on the bird. Imagine that a remote operator can post a photo or file that can be read on a Falconsat WEB portal by FEMA or emergency operators back here anytime, anywhere.
The concept is suggested on this page: http://aprs.org/PFS3.html
All we need is someone to write the internet server that collects the BBS packets from all the ground stations like the APRS-IS already does for APRS, but this new PACSAT-IS would be just for PACSAT BBS traffic.
Then someone to collect the data and write the WEB Portal.
Then people to put up satgates (hopefully using omni antennas) and with enough stations, all packets could be collected.
Anyway, I created the above web page to kind of serve as a target for this exciting new Amateur Radio capability.
So even stations that are using OMNI antennas now and only decoding a few packets per pass, we need to understand how well this works for high elevation passes. Even this sparse data is good data.
Remember, with a standard TNC all you are seeing are the few UI packets in the downlink. I think if you set KISS mode, you will be flooded with all the streaming BBS data too. This continuous stream at 9600 can make it easy to see the effect of an antenna in very short time.
Bob, WB4APR
Sorry Bob,
With all due respect, but I could not disagree more with your statement: "Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency response traffic into and out of remote disaster areas. Its file store and forward BBS using the PACSAT protocol is ideal for getting multiline messages, and pictures and data out of an area."
Here is why:
1. Its foot print and availability is severely limited by its inclination of 35 degrees. Most of the northern hemisphere has a few minutes and low horizon activity during a very short window. 2. Any satellite that is not available 24/7 (e.g. geostationary) is not useful for emergency operations. Having it around for a few minutes a day does not cut it. There is a reason why folks use HF and VHF radios (and not amateur radio satellites) 3. The equipment, software and user training is not there. Just look at the "fun" people having getting the TX side going. 4. You can count on one hand the folks that are currently having RX and TX ability to get a few packets through not even thinking about images etc. 5. Emergency response requires KISS equipment and training on the amateur radio side.
On the other hand, it is a fun satellite to play with and like most APRS satellites a niche to explore and enjoyable from a hobby perspective.
Again, these comments are within the spirit of our common interests and acknowledging all the great work you are doing and have done.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency response traffic into and out of remote disaster areas.
Its file store and forward BBS using the PACSAT protocol is ideal for getting multiline messages, and pictures and data out of an area. Amateur radio Sateliltes sort of abandoned this concept with the rise of the internet. And then the short, real-time contact capability of APRS better matched the shorter attention span of the evolving users.
But now we have both in Falconsat3. But we also now have the Internet and can integrate a worldwide collection of satstations capturing all the downlink PACSAT BBS packets and building a WEB portal on the ground that always mirrors the traffic on the bird. Imagine that a remote operator can post a photo or file that can be read on a Falconsat WEB portal by FEMA or emergency operators back here anytime, anywhere.
The concept is suggested on this page: http://aprs.org/PFS3.html
All we need is someone to write the internet server that collects the BBS packets from all the ground stations like the APRS-IS already does for APRS, but this new PACSAT-IS would be just for PACSAT BBS traffic.
Then someone to collect the data and write the WEB Portal.
Then people to put up satgates (hopefully using omni antennas) and with enough stations, all packets could be collected.
Anyway, I created the above web page to kind of serve as a target for this exciting new Amateur Radio capability.
So even stations that are using OMNI antennas now and only decoding a few packets per pass, we need to understand how well this works for high elevation passes. Even this sparse data is good data.
Remember, with a standard TNC all you are seeing are the few UI packets in the downlink. I think if you set KISS mode, you will be flooded with all the streaming BBS data too. This continuous stream at 9600 can make it easy to see the effect of an antenna in very short time.
Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
That honestly sounds like a really good advertisement for one of the Phase 4 satellite concepts if I've heard of one. Although I do kind of hope I can get time to listen to the falcon sat before the symposium.
Regards, Jordan KF5COQ
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 10:24 PM Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry Bob,
With all due respect, but I could not disagree more with your statement: "Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency response traffic into and out of remote disaster areas. Its file store and forward BBS using the PACSAT protocol is ideal for getting multiline messages, and pictures and data out of an area."
Here is why:
- Its foot print and availability is severely limited by its inclination
of 35 degrees. Most of the northern hemisphere has a few minutes and low horizon activity during a very short window. 2. Any satellite that is not available 24/7 (e.g. geostationary) is not useful for emergency operations. Having it around for a few minutes a day does not cut it. There is a reason why folks use HF and VHF radios (and not amateur radio satellites) 3. The equipment, software and user training is not there. Just look at the "fun" people having getting the TX side going. 4. You can count on one hand the folks that are currently having RX and TX ability to get a few packets through not even thinking about images etc. 5. Emergency response requires KISS equipment and training on the amateur radio side.
On the other hand, it is a fun satellite to play with and like most APRS satellites a niche to explore and enjoyable from a hobby perspective.
Again, these comments are within the spirit of our common interests and acknowledging all the great work you are doing and have done.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency
response
traffic into and out of remote disaster areas.
Its file store and forward BBS using the PACSAT protocol is ideal for getting multiline messages, and pictures and data out of an area. Amateur radio Sateliltes sort of abandoned this concept with the rise of the internet. And then the short, real-time contact capability of APRS
better
matched the shorter attention span of the evolving users.
But now we have both in Falconsat3. But we also now have the Internet
and
can integrate a worldwide collection of satstations capturing all the downlink PACSAT BBS packets and building a WEB portal on the ground that always mirrors the traffic on the bird. Imagine that a remote operator
can
post a photo or file that can be read on a Falconsat WEB portal by FEMA
or
emergency operators back here anytime, anywhere.
The concept is suggested on this page: http://aprs.org/PFS3.html
All we need is someone to write the internet server that collects the BBS packets from all the ground stations like the APRS-IS already does for APRS, but this new PACSAT-IS would be just for PACSAT BBS traffic.
Then someone to collect the data and write the WEB Portal.
Then people to put up satgates (hopefully using omni antennas) and with enough stations, all packets could be collected.
Anyway, I created the above web page to kind of serve as a target for
this
exciting new Amateur Radio capability.
So even stations that are using OMNI antennas now and only decoding a few packets per pass, we need to understand how well this works for high elevation passes. Even this sparse data is good data.
Remember, with a standard TNC all you are seeing are the few UI packets
in
the downlink. I think if you set KISS mode, you will be flooded with all the streaming BBS data too. This continuous stream at 9600 can make it easy to see the effect of an antenna in very short time.
Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
If only another Oscar 16 was launched......
73,
Jack VK4JRC
Club. www.cqara.org.au
On 13 Oct 2017, at 11:59 am, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry Bob,
With all due respect, but I could not disagree more with your statement: "Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency response traffic into and out of remote disaster areas. Its file store and forward BBS using the PACSAT protocol is ideal for getting multiline messages, and pictures and data out of an area."
Here is why:
- Its foot print and availability is severely limited by its inclination
of 35 degrees. Most of the northern hemisphere has a few minutes and low horizon activity during a very short window. 2. Any satellite that is not available 24/7 (e.g. geostationary) is not useful for emergency operations. Having it around for a few minutes a day does not cut it. There is a reason why folks use HF and VHF radios (and not amateur radio satellites) 3. The equipment, software and user training is not there. Just look at the "fun" people having getting the TX side going. 4. You can count on one hand the folks that are currently having RX and TX ability to get a few packets through not even thinking about images etc. 5. Emergency response requires KISS equipment and training on the amateur radio side.
On the other hand, it is a fun satellite to play with and like most APRS satellites a niche to explore and enjoyable from a hobby perspective.
Again, these comments are within the spirit of our common interests and acknowledging all the great work you are doing and have done.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency response traffic into and out of remote disaster areas.
Its file store and forward BBS using the PACSAT protocol is ideal for getting multiline messages, and pictures and data out of an area. Amateur radio Sateliltes sort of abandoned this concept with the rise of the internet. And then the short, real-time contact capability of APRS better matched the shorter attention span of the evolving users.
But now we have both in Falconsat3. But we also now have the Internet and can integrate a worldwide collection of satstations capturing all the downlink PACSAT BBS packets and building a WEB portal on the ground that always mirrors the traffic on the bird. Imagine that a remote operator can post a photo or file that can be read on a Falconsat WEB portal by FEMA or emergency operators back here anytime, anywhere.
The concept is suggested on this page: http://aprs.org/PFS3.html
All we need is someone to write the internet server that collects the BBS packets from all the ground stations like the APRS-IS already does for APRS, but this new PACSAT-IS would be just for PACSAT BBS traffic.
Then someone to collect the data and write the WEB Portal.
Then people to put up satgates (hopefully using omni antennas) and with enough stations, all packets could be collected.
Anyway, I created the above web page to kind of serve as a target for this exciting new Amateur Radio capability.
So even stations that are using OMNI antennas now and only decoding a few packets per pass, we need to understand how well this works for high elevation passes. Even this sparse data is good data.
Remember, with a standard TNC all you are seeing are the few UI packets in the downlink. I think if you set KISS mode, you will be flooded with all the streaming BBS data too. This continuous stream at 9600 can make it easy to see the effect of an antenna in very short time.
Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
But:
I could not disagree more with your statement: "Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency response traffic... Here is why:
- Its foot print and availability is severely limited by its inclination
of 35 degrees.
But most hurricane disasters seem to be occurring well below that latitude. In fact, the lower inclination is a bonus for the coverage area needing it most.
- Any satellite that is not available 24/7 is not useful for emergency
operations.
Might try mentioning that to the people who took days to get a message out or HF operators.
Having it around for a few minutes a day does not cut it.
But when only 1 second packet burst is needed, then a few minutes is plenty of time
There is a reason why folks use HF and VHF radios (and not amateur radio satellites)
But an APRS HT is small, compact, fits in the pocket, and can get the message out ANYWHERE via APRS satellite a few times a day.
- The equipment, software and user training is not there. Just look at
the "fun" people having getting the TX side going.
We learn. Getting a one-line message out by APRS satellite is to change the FREQ from 144.39 terrestrial to 145.825 for space. Done. Most APRS sats even respond to the same WIDE path as used terrestrially. Falconsat needs three more steps. Change to 9600 baud and change the path to PFS3 and freq to 145.84
- You can count on one hand the folks that are currently having RX and TX
ability to get a few packets through not even thinking about images etc.
Everything starts small. First pictures of my granddaughter were the size of a lima bean.
- Emergency response requires KISS equipment and training on the amateur
radio side.
Yes, wont that be fun... and all we need are a few satgates...
On the other hand, it is a fun satellite to play with and like most APRS satellites a niche to explore and enjoyable from a hobby perspective.
Amen there!
Again, these comments are within the spirit of our common interests...
Amen! I really look forward to retiring some day and REALLY starting to play...
Bob, WB4APR
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote: Falconsat3 brings back a great satellite capability for emergency response traffic into and out of remote disaster areas.
Its file store and forward BBS using the PACSAT protocol is ideal for getting multiline messages, and pictures and data out of an area. Amateur radio Sateliltes sort of abandoned this concept with the rise of the internet. And then the short, real-time contact capability of APRS better matched the shorter attention span of the evolving users.
But now we have both in Falconsat3. But we also now have the Internet and can integrate a worldwide collection of satstations capturing all the downlink PACSAT BBS packets and building a WEB portal on the ground that always mirrors the traffic on the bird. Imagine that a remote operator can post a photo or file that can be read on a Falconsat WEB portal by FEMA or emergency operators back here anytime, anywhere.
The concept is suggested on this page: http://aprs.org/PFS3.html
All we need is someone to write the internet server that collects the BBS packets from all the ground stations like the APRS-IS already does for APRS, but this new PACSAT-IS would be just for PACSAT BBS traffic.
Then someone to collect the data and write the WEB Portal.
Then people to put up satgates (hopefully using omni antennas) and with enough stations, all packets could be collected.
Anyway, I created the above web page to kind of serve as a target for this exciting new Amateur Radio capability.
So even stations that are using OMNI antennas now and only decoding a few packets per pass, we need to understand how well this works for high elevation passes. Even this sparse data is good data.
Remember, with a standard TNC all you are seeing are the few UI packets in the downlink. I think if you set KISS mode, you will be flooded with all the streaming BBS data too. This continuous stream at 9600 can make it easy to see the effect of an antenna in very short time.
Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________
participants (4)
-
Jack Chomley -
Jordan Trewitt -
Robert Bruninga -
Stefan Wagener