To the regular repetitive users of Echo
Please refrain from hogging the satellite every pass for multiple contacts.
I cant get into the satellite anymore and I am not going to use the amplifier to fight everyone.
Sorry if you are offended but you need to be told.
My support of amsat is directly proportional to my ability to use the satellite.
pat
Thomas McGrane wrote:
To the regular repetitive users of Echo
Please refrain from hogging the satellite every pass for multiple contacts.
I cant get into the satellite anymore and I am not going to use the amplifier to fight everyone.
Sorry if you are offended but you need to be told.
My support of amsat is directly proportional to my ability to use the satellite.
<shameless plug> The Courteous Ham's Guide to AO-51 http://www.innismir.net/etc/CourteousAO51_v1.1.pdf
• Don't hog the satellite. If you are one of the stations making a good signal into the satellite, the temptation is to work every station possible. While it is easy to do this in courteous fashion, let other stations have a chance as well. A good rule of thumb is to go after 2-3 QSOs then back off. Remember, this might not mean 2-3 *total* QSOs, as if other stations call you, respond.
</shameless plug>
Although, I listened to the pass ~18:45 pass yesterday evening, and I didn't notice anyone "hogging" the satellite. I heard 3 portable stations and 2 mobiles (myself included).
Additionally, I will be "net" for the four passes (2 in the AM and 2 in the PM) for 15 June, in celebration of my birth. Thank you all for your full cooperation.
Please refrain from hogging the satellite every pass for multiple contacts.
I cant get into the satellite anymore and I am not going to use the amplifier to fight everyone.
Pat and all,
A while back, when AO-51 went into two consecutive weeks of non-Mode J configuration, I expressed concerns to some folks within the AMSAT community because I didn't - and still don't - believe that was appropriate. In response, an AMSAT official suggested that I "take a look at the big picture" of satellite operations. He explained that, although there are few owners and users of L and S band gear - especially when compard to those who regularly use AO-27, AO-51 and SO-50 with V/Ugear - those of us who can work Mode J and Mode B have many more options than those who want to experiement with L band and S band. He was, and is, right about that. So I took his advice.
It was, in fact, precisely because of his advice that I focused more attention on the other satellites - something I hadn't really done. As a result, I have four European countries and Africa in the log on AO-7, which is something I never expected to accomplish. My log also includes multiple contacts on all of the SSB/CW satellites using a fully rechargeable station powered by its elements' internal battery packs. Being an old QRP addict, the coolest of all are the milliwatt contacts I've made on AO-7 using the Elk, handheld, from inside my home.
AMSAT's mission, simply stated, is to "keep amateur radio in space." That mission doesn't include assuring that you or any operator has a "fair chance" at using AO-51 or any other satellite. It wasn't AMSAT's fault, for example, that I struggled for months with some issues here that kept me from effectively working AO-7, FO-29 and VO-52. Now that I can, I often talk to myself for an entire pass because nobody else is around. Neither AO-27 nor SO-50 are used nearly so much. It's hard to argue that AO-51 is the most popular and most-used amateur satellite in low Earth orbit - except for those times when the International Space Station ham gear is configured in its FM voice repeater mode.
I don't believe it's appropriate to connect your support of AMSAT with your ability to work any satellite.
AMSAT charges membership dues, not user fees.
To be consistent with that line of reasoning, I should have been one of the first stations the K5D DXpedition worked on the satellites because I supported AMSAT's efforts by donating my Arrow antenna to the gear being assembled for loan to DXpeditions. I was not one of the first; I'm grateful I made the log at all, to be honest. Had I not, I would not have regretted supporting efforts to expand opportunities to expose AMSAT and its mission of keeping amateur radio in space to a much broader community.
I miss contacts - often - because stations you refer to as "regular repetitive users" begin making calls. It happened last night during the 23:30 UTC pass of AO-51 when I had a very short window to try to work HK6IOP in Colombia. I heard him clearly and called him a few times - with 5 watts from an FT-817ND into the Elk antenna I was hand-holding and manually pointing. Was I disappointed not to work him? Of course. But those other stations have just as much right as I to work the satellite with any gear configuration that is legal for use under FCC Part 97 - even if it's a Jingtong HT! You alluded to this in your post - but I could have chosen to physically move a part of my shack so I could have used a radio with up to 50 watts out on the uplink. I chose not to. That choice is important to note.
You have stated your choice of not increasing power, moving forward, to get into the satellite. That IS your choice.
This time last year, however, I didn't have a choice like that to make. A Yaesu VX-7R HT was the only amateur radio I owned, having donated all of my original ham gear to an ARES group in 2003 because I'd been off the air since early 1992, and they certainly were going to make more use of it than I had in the preceding decade. After looking into the ARISS program, I ordered an Arrow antenna because I wanted to work the ISS. All the satellites and, more importantly, all the friendships I've made on them, have been wonderful blessings that I'm very grateful for.
That information relates directly to my final point. I made my first-ever satellite contact last June 28th. Less than a month later - 28 days later - I worked my 100th grid. It took me more than twice as long to get the QSL cards I needed to apply for VUCC than it did to work the grids - ALL with a half-duplex, handheld satellite station running no more than 5 watts out.
Two nights ago, on the usually busy evening pass of AO-51 to my west (and it was busy that night), I made four contacts using a Yaesu VX-3R HT and my Elk antenna, which replaced the Arrow last fall. On its internal battery pack, the VX-3R's high-power setting is 1.5 watts out. I had already worked three stations when a neighbor walked across the street after his curiosity got the best of him. As he listened to the call signs of stations working AO-51, I "located" for him those stations I was familiar with. "That guy is in Florida. He's in Louisiana. That guy is up by Chicago."
About that time, KG6NUB threw out his call from CM87 in San Francisco. "You mean, that guy is in San Francisco ... for real?" my neighbor asked. "He is, and I'm going to try to call him." It took three tries, actually, but we worked. My neighbor was flabbergasted that a radio not much larger than a Zippo lighter and an antenna I could hold in my hand enabled me to talk to a guy in San Francisco because we each bounced our signals off a 13-inch-cube satellite orbiting roughly 500 miles above the Earth.
I just saw the post from Ben, N1WBV, who I worked on the early pass of AO-51 two nights ago when he was mobile. He's right, and everyone would do well to read the guide - shameless plug or not! hihi - as I and others have. Of course, that hasn't kept me from make more contacts on a given pass than I should have. It happens to all of us, even if we're only running a few watts from a fully handheld station.
I include what I did about earning Satellite VUCC all handheld, and about the AO-51 passes two nights ago, because if I can do it, anyone can - including you. Maybe you should focus more on what you CAN do than what you can't, without blaming others for your inability to regularly get into AO-51. I do here, all the time, on a little HT and a crappy ol' Elk antenna. Go figure.
I am sorry if you are offended, Pat - but I felt like you needed told.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from "Thomas McGrane" n2oeq@aceweb.com: --------------
To the regular repetitive users of Echo
Please refrain from hogging the satellite every pass for multiple contacts. I cant get into the satellite anymore and I am not going to use the amplifier to fight everyone.
Sorry if you are offended but you need to be told.
My support of amsat is directly proportional to my ability to use the satellite.
pat _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
As many of you know I operated as ZF2AE from EK99 back in late March and early April during my vacation from Grand Cayman and Little Cayman. I received numerous direct requests to have a sked as EK99 was needed for their VUCC awards. I made a big effort to meet all these requests received prior or during that trip and in most instances I was successful. As a portable, I worked AO-51 and SO-50 with just an Arrow Antenna with an ARR preamp and 5W with my VX7R. I also worked other stations on AO-7, FO-29 and VU52 using the same setup but with my FT857D with 10 Watts instead. Let me tell you setting up as a portable station to work the linear birds is time consuming and required a big effort everytime. I was on vacation and Hamradio was a secondary activity.
After my return, I went through my recordings it was clear that there were many missed opportunities to work certain stations for their requested skeds . Why was this? In most cases, it came down to stations both domestic and international that are NOT LISTENING or not leaving enough space between calls. Also it was clear these same stations were calling the same stations day in and day out. What is the sport in this, working the same stations and the same grids over and over again; especially when a DXpedition is ongoing and others need to work that grid. I had numerous passes where I could not get once into an FM satellite during a planned sked. In some cases, I only managed one or two contacts. It was frustrating to say the least. Out of the 45+ passes I completed during my trip there was only one satellite pass that was disciplined, operators listened, called in order and over 15 contacts were worked in sequence with zero interference and many happy operators.
I encourage operators with deluxe satellite stations running power with full computer and rotation tracking to let more modest stations have their fair share of opportunities to get into the satellites. You may disagree with this concept, but I would like to remind the readers the FCC mandates that minimum power should be used to make at all times in to establish a contact.
During my trip and upon my return, I received countless emails and QSL cards thanking me for activating a new country and a new grid. In the end, that was the biggest satisfaction of the whole DXpedition giving out a new one!
73,
Adrian AA5UK ZF2AE & ZF2AE/ZF8
________________________________ From: Thomas McGrane n2oeq@aceweb.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:04:40 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] equal time
To the regular repetitive users of Echo
Please refrain from hogging the satellite every pass for multiple contacts.
I cant get into the satellite anymore and I am not going to use the amplifier to fight everyone.
Sorry if you are offended but you need to be told.
My support of amsat is directly proportional to my ability to use the satellite.
pat _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Adrian and all,
I didn't get to work you on your trip, although I listened. Never heard you from here in EM84. Thank you for going to the trouble of enabling operations on both the FM and CW/SSB satellites. I appreciate it, and it's obvious that others do from your comments.
To amplify (yes, pun intended ... I couldn't help myself!) your reference to using the lowest power level necessary to establish communications, I think it appropriate to note that, per Drew's (KO4MA) post to the BB earlier this week, AO-51 recently has been operating with twice the power of AO-27 and four times the power of SO-50. Yes, AO-51 has been transmitting one full watt rf out. So, at least half of every satellite contact we make is QRP and, more often than not, milliwatt QRP.
All of that being said ... I have not and will not ask for any quarter on the satellites from any operator. I spent my first nine years as a licensed amateur working mostly QRP on HF. I chose to do that. I choose to take a similar approach to operating the satellites. Therein lies the sport for me ... personally. I don't suggest it's right for anyone else, but I enjoy the heck out of it.
Adrian ... you ask what the sport is in working the same stations in the same grids over and over. In response, I suggest to you that working the FM satellites (or the linear satellites, for that matter) isn't about a competitive, sporting endeavor to everyone. Some guys don't chase grids and couldn't care less about them. I applied for Satellite VUCC only because I could do so exclusively with handheld contacts - two-way QRP, for sure. I applied for AMSAT's Satellite Communications Achievement Award because I could do so exclusively with contacts that not only were handheld, but all made running 50 mW out here on my VX-7R on the same set of two Duracells. At no time did I ever expect or ask for any quarter. I paid my money for the station I chose to operate, and I continue to takes my chances, as they say.
I suspect that every operator has a very personal set of reasons and motivations for working the satellites. None of those reasons and motivations are less valid than anyone else's. I have operated portable from several different grids, and I drove over to South Carolina a couple months ago because someone needed it for their Satellite WAS. Activating those grids/states was my reason for being at some of the places I've operated from. At no time did I think my operation should take precedence over any other contacts during a given pass. I either called somebody or threw out my call as portable and the state or grid I was working from. Those who needed or wanted that spot confirmed called me. Those who didn't, didn't.
Chasing grids, states and/or DX entities aren't the reason(s) we have amateur satellites in orbit. They aren't the reason(s) we have the amateur radio service. They can be fun operating activities, but not every licensed amateur who enjoys working the satellites shares that sentiment.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from Adrian Engele aa5uk@yahoo.com: --------------
As many of you know I operated as ZF2AE from EK99 back in late March and early April during my vacation from Grand Cayman and Little Cayman. I received numerous direct requests to have a sked as EK99 was needed for their VUCC awards. I made a big effort to meet all these requests received prior or during that trip and in most instances I was successful. As a portable, I worked AO-51 and SO-50 with just an Arrow Antenna with an ARR preamp and 5W with my VX7R. I also worked other stations on AO-7, FO-29 and VU52 using the same setup but with my FT857D with 10 Watts instead. Let me tell you setting up as a portable station to work the linear birds is time consuming and required a big effort
everytime. I was on vacation and Hamradio was a secondary activity. After my return, I went through my recordings it was clear that there were many missed opportunities to work certain stations for their requested skeds . Why was this? In most cases, it came down to stations both domestic and international that are NOT LISTENING or not leaving enough space between calls. Also it was clear these same stations were calling the same stations day in and day out. What is the sport in this, working the same stations and the same grids over and over again; especially when a DXpedition is ongoing and others need to work that grid. I had numerous passes where I could not get once into an FM satellite during a planned sked. In some cases, I only managed one or two contacts. It was frustrating to say the least. Out of the 45+ passes I completed during my trip there was only one satellite pass that was disciplined, operators listened, called in order and over 15 contacts were worked in sequence with zero interference and many happy operators.
I encourage operators with deluxe satellite stations running power with full computer and rotation tracking to let more modest stations have their fair share of opportunities to get into the satellites. You may disagree with this concept, but I would like to remind the readers the FCC mandates that minimum power should be used to make at all times in to establish a contact.
During my trip and upon my return, I received countless emails and QSL cards thanking me for activating a new country and a new grid. In the end, that was the biggest satisfaction of the whole DXpedition giving out a new one!
73,
Adrian AA5UK ZF2AE & ZF2AE/ZF8
From: Thomas McGrane To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:04:40 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] equal time
To the regular repetitive users of Echo
Please refrain from hogging the satellite every pass for multiple contacts.
I cant get into the satellite anymore and I am not going to use the amplifier to fight everyone.
Sorry if you are offended but you need to be told.
My support of amsat is directly proportional to my ability to use the satellite.
pat _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Adrian, first I would like to thank you for taking the time to operate from a DX location, in order to give others a chance to work you!
Next, I think because of the things you have said, and the recent issue with the K5D operation, we have learned that attempting to put up a rare country on an FM satellite just doesn't work out. There are simply too many stations on AO-51. Why - because it's easy to do. SO-50 because of the timer and PL tones, is more difficult. A lot of hams don't realize that FO-29 is back in service, let alone AO-27; and AO-27 is only on for about half the pass on the USA. AO-16 has been off the air for months, and hopefully we will get it back sometime. The SSB birds are more difficult since it requires additional equipment, as opposed to an HT or two and a small handheld antenna (with the exception of Tim who could probably work Japan on AO-51 even though it's not in his footprint!) Tim knows I'm joking.
AO-51 is over used. And yes there are a lot of people who may not necessarily run high power on there, but have large antennas of which I am one of. I won't apologize for having outdoor directional high gain antennas controlled by an LVB tracker. My antennas are from the days of AO-10 & AO-13, and I don't have the ability to change to RH, LH circular polarization; I use axial polarization. Yes there are some who are using handheld antennas with roughly the same amount of power that I am; but who's going to be heard (even with my 115 feet of LMR400)? Then there are those who believe it's a trivial task to setup a full duplex HT with a hand held antenna and be heard. It's not easy. I've tried it, and have concluded that it takes a lot of time to learn the 'tricks of the trade'. At least once a week, I hear a newcomer on one of the birds calling CQ. And people come back to them, but that newcomer can't hear them, because they aren't aware of doppler, etc.
Then there are some who use 'high' power, I would say 50+ watts, but perhaps they need that power because they are using vertical antennas or eggbeaters, with 150 feet of RG-58 Radio Shack coax. And there are some who either use high power, or have defective rigs (or both), and make it difficult for others to hear due to their spurious emissions because they want to have more contacts than anyone else.
So what's the answer. Those who aren't active on the birds because they are fed up will say we need a HEO.
Those that are active on the birds don't have to say anything. They already know the problem.
I would like for someone to explain to me why they disagree that what we really need are more LEOs.
73 de W4AS Sebastian
On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:03 PM, Adrian Engele wrote:
As many of you know I operated as ZF2AE from EK99 back in late March and early April during my vacation from Grand Cayman and Little Cayman. I received numerous direct requests to have a sked as EK99 was needed for their VUCC awards. I made a big effort to meet all these requests received prior or during that trip and in most instances I was successful. As a portable, I worked AO-51 and SO-50 with just an Arrow Antenna with an ARR preamp and 5W with my VX7R. I also worked other stations on AO-7, FO-29 and VU52 using the same setup but with my FT857D with 10 Watts instead. Let me tell you setting up as a portable station to work the linear birds is time consuming and required a big effort everytime. I was on vacation and Hamradio was a secondary activity.
After my return, I went through my recordings it was clear that there were many missed opportunities to work certain stations for their requested skeds . Why was this? In most cases, it came down to stations both domestic and international that are NOT LISTENING or not leaving enough space between calls. Also it was clear these same stations were calling the same stations day in and day out. What is the sport in this, working the same stations and the same grids over and over again; especially when a DXpedition is ongoing and others need to work that grid. I had numerous passes where I could not get once into an FM satellite during a planned sked. In some cases, I only managed one or two contacts. It was frustrating to say the least. Out of the 45+ passes I completed during my trip there was only one satellite pass that was disciplined, operators listened, called in order and over 15 contacts were worked in sequence with zero interference and many happy operators.
I encourage operators with deluxe satellite stations running power with full computer and rotation tracking to let more modest stations have their fair share of opportunities to get into the satellites. You may disagree with this concept, but I would like to remind the readers the FCC mandates that minimum power should be used to make at all times in to establish a contact.
During my trip and upon my return, I received countless emails and QSL cards thanking me for activating a new country and a new grid. In the end, that was the biggest satisfaction of the whole DXpedition giving out a new one!
73,
Adrian AA5UK ZF2AE & ZF2AE/ZF8
participants (6)
-
Adrian Engele -
Ben Jackson -
John -
n3tl＠bellsouth.net -
Sebastian -
Thomas McGrane