In 17 years of satellite operating - and literally thousands of QSO's, I'm proud of the fact that I have actually had 2 - (that's two, folks) - QSO's on FM. I believe the last one was W3SM/OE on AO-27 about 10 years ago.
For want of something better to do today I went outside with my arrow aerial, a MYCOM handheld scanner and a little IC-E91 (also handheld) to have a listen to AO-51 ... (I've heard it described as a "zoo").
I monitored the 16:15Z pass over Russia/LA/Europe/UK and what I heard can only be described as the worst operating I've heard in 41 years of radio.
There were stations battling it out with the mine's bigger than yours mentality, stations "hogging" it, constantly calling CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ ... pause for breath ... CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ, CQ ... (no callsign given but obviously a Russian station), Several stations replied to this gentleman but he was obviously *NOT* hearing them. There was the 'obligatory' awwwwwla, awwwwwla, awwwwwla, awwwwwwla - (the mic-shy gentleman who can't find his downlink).
(Don't these clowns have receivers ??.....LA2QAA)
AO-51, what a wonderful resource for showing the non-amateur listeners that these operators are fully competant to operate an emergency network like the one mentioned planned for Intelsat.
I'm absolutely convinced !!! Intelsat will welcome such operating with open arms!.
My (non-amateur) neighbour's immediate comment was - "I'm glad my !!! life doesn't depend on you lot, it sounds like a fox loose in a henhouse".
I'm ashamed to say, I absolutely agree with him.
I also sincerely hope that the standard of operating (read: disipline/ proceedure) is better in North America than it is in Europe - actually, I've listened via N1DID and Echolink, as well as the promo video so I know it is.
73 John. la2qaa@hotmail.com
John, the operation of FM voice satellites is a travesty for ham radio...
I've been licensed for 57 years, on amateur satellites for 33 years (Oscar 7) and the FM voice operation is the most ridiculous aberration I've witnessed in all of amateur radio...Pandemonium exists here also!!
It is pretty obvious NO COMMUNICATION exists on AO51, all of their communication is on here. Why do they bother to turn the radio on???
Many of us attended AMSAT a lot conventions in an attempt to discourage throwing that money "down the tubes" on FM voice, to no avail. Someone had an "ax to grind", and several of the existing "powers that be" in AMSAT-NA told me to "mind my own business". They were obviously the "ax grinders".
FM voice on the amateur satellites is about equal to the same degree of difficulty as a cell phone operation!
No wonder our membership is deteriorating.
Ancient AO7 and present VO52 hopefully are keeping some interest, until Europe launches P3E....
That's where my donations go.....
At 10:14 AM 5/13/2008, you wrote:
In 17 years of satellite operating - and literally thousands of QSO's, I'm proud of the fact that I have actually had 2 - (that's two, folks) - QSO's on FM. I believe the last one was W3SM/OE on AO-27 about 10 years ago.
For want of something better to do today I went outside with my arrow aerial, a MYCOM handheld scanner and a little IC-E91 (also handheld) to have a listen to AO-51 ... (I've heard it described as a "zoo").
I monitored the 16:15Z pass over Russia/LA/Europe/UK and what I heard can only be described as the worst operating I've heard in 41 years of radio.
I also sincerely hope that the standard of operating (read: disipline/ proceedure) is better in North America than it is in Europe - actually, I've listened via N1DID and Echolink, as well as the promo video so I know it is.
73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1@san.rr.com
Disagree: I learn....
Pulling for P3E...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Dave Guimont wrote: | John, the operation of FM voice satellites is a travesty for ham radio...
That's your opinion. State it as such.
| It is pretty obvious NO COMMUNICATION exists on AO51, | all of their communication is on here. Why do they bother to turn | the radio on???
I'm approaching 100 QSOs on FM sats and can average about 3-4 per pass. I don't understand what the communication issues you are having. I practice courteous communication and evangelize to others to do the same.
| Many of us attended AMSAT a lot conventions in an attempt to | discourage throwing that money "down the tubes" on FM voice, to no | avail. Someone had an "ax to grind", and several of the existing | "powers that be" in AMSAT-NA told me to "mind my own business". They | were obviously the "ax grinders".
<rant>Yes. Let's toss our money on sats that only a select few people with special equipment (e.g. stuff that a new Ham would not have access to) that ought to show those plebian FM operators.</rant>
Your complaint is that the FM sats are in over-used and that SSB satellites are less crowded. Such a statement points to the fact that more money should be focused on FM sats rather the SSB as it would "reach" the most people.
| FM voice on the amateur satellites is about equal to the same degree | of difficulty as a cell phone operation!
With the amount of people posting on here (and some lurking) that having difficulty getting "on" AO-51, that statement is ludicrous.
| No wonder our membership is deteriorating.
Perhaps the solution is *MORE* FM sats, rather then less. The more FM birds in orbit the less people per bird. Or perhaps the reason membership is deteriorating are the attitudes give to us lowly FM operators.
- -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj <at> innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/
Dave, You have made it clear on this BBS before that FM sats are not your cup of tea. I don't have any problem with that but I think your use of the word "pandemonium" is a little strong. I would say that it's "hectic" but it's possible to work stations in relative comfort if one knows how to pick and choose their spots. I'm right with you on wating for P3E, I missed out on AO-40 entirely. I hope soon to be working AO-7 and VO-52 as soon as I straighten out an antenna issue I'm having on 70cm transmit. I just think your attitude towards the FM sats is wrong. They do have their place. Many people, including myself got the thrill of hearing our signal beamed back to us for the first time on an FM sat and we still enjoy it. C'mon now... a cellphone call?? It's a bit more complex than that. As far as membership deteriorating, I think narrow mindedness, about a variety of things including FM sats, new frequencies and modes, cubesats etc. etc. does more harm than anything. Of course I've only been licensed for 30 years so I guess my opinion doesn't count hunh? ;-) 73, Michael, W4HIJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Guimont" dguimon1@san.rr.com To: la2qaa@amsat.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:31 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Organised Chaos.
John, the operation of FM voice satellites is a travesty for ham radio...
I've been licensed for 57 years, on amateur satellites for 33 years (Oscar 7) and the FM voice operation is the most ridiculous aberration I've witnessed in all of amateur radio...Pandemonium exists here also!!
It is pretty obvious NO COMMUNICATION exists on AO51, all of their communication is on here. Why do they bother to turn the radio on???
Many of us attended AMSAT a lot conventions in an attempt to discourage throwing that money "down the tubes" on FM voice, to no avail. Someone had an "ax to grind", and several of the existing "powers that be" in AMSAT-NA told me to "mind my own business". They were obviously the "ax grinders".
FM voice on the amateur satellites is about equal to the same degree of difficulty as a cell phone operation!
No wonder our membership is deteriorating.
Ancient AO7 and present VO52 hopefully are keeping some interest, until Europe launches P3E....
That's where my donations go.....
At 10:14 AM 5/13/2008, you wrote:
In 17 years of satellite operating - and literally thousands of QSO's, I'm proud of the fact that I have actually had 2 - (that's two, folks) - QSO's on FM. I believe the last one was W3SM/OE on AO-27 about 10 years ago.
For want of something better to do today I went outside with my arrow aerial, a MYCOM handheld scanner and a little IC-E91 (also handheld) to have a listen to AO-51 ... (I've heard it described as a "zoo").
I monitored the 16:15Z pass over Russia/LA/Europe/UK and what I heard can only be described as the worst operating I've heard in 41 years of radio.
I also sincerely hope that the standard of operating (read: disipline/ proceedure) is better in North America than it is in Europe - actually, I've listened via N1DID and Echolink, as well as the promo video so I know it is.
73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1@san.rr.com Disagree: I learn.... Pulling for P3E...
. Of course I've only been licensed for 30 years so I guess my opinion doesn't count hunh? ;-) 73, Michael, W4HIJ
Oh, no, Michael,
I spent 28 years, in three wars, as a navy fighter pilot to make sure they do!!!!
73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1@san.rr.com
Disagree: I learn....
Pulling for P3E...
And now for a dissenting opinion.....
FM sats work. They serve a good purpose. I, and a hundreds of other sat ops enjoy them. Sometimes the communications can be chaos, but most passes here they are not over used.
Dave are you one of the guys who also complained about the 'ditters' on the linear birds? And the guys who don't follow the 'one true rule' on the linear birds? And the guys who slide by up/down onto your qso on the linear birds? And the guys running too much power and loading down the passband on the linear birds. Is that good operating?
Yes, poor operating habits can appear anywhere. So instead of grinding your ax all the time, be an elmer.
Ernie
Dave Guimont wrote:
John, the operation of FM voice satellites is a travesty for ham radio...
I've been licensed for 57 years, on amateur satellites for 33 years (Oscar 7) and the FM voice operation is the most ridiculous aberration I've witnessed in all of amateur radio...Pandemonium exists here also!!
It is pretty obvious NO COMMUNICATION exists on AO51, all of their communication is on here. Why do they bother to turn the radio on???
Many of us attended AMSAT a lot conventions in an attempt to discourage throwing that money "down the tubes" on FM voice, to no avail. Someone had an "ax to grind", and several of the existing "powers that be" in AMSAT-NA told me to "mind my own business". They were obviously the "ax grinders".
FM voice on the amateur satellites is about equal to the same degree of difficulty as a cell phone operation!
No wonder our membership is deteriorating.
Ancient AO7 and present VO52 hopefully are keeping some interest, until Europe launches P3E....
That's where my donations go.....
Im tired of the old FM bashers. The FM birds attract a lot of users and QRM. So cleary a lot of folks like them.
Besides, tune into any of hundreds of frequencies on the ham bands during a contest and you will hear the same thing. Zero usefull commmunications capability but a heck of a lot of folks seem to be enjoying it.
I wish the old fud FM bashers would just go find something in Ham radio they enjoy and go do it, rather than complaining about what others find fun in the hobby..
My experience in 46 years of ham radio is that there is room in it for everyone and everyone's interests. But nothing, absolutely nothing, is gained by bashing what other people enjoy. If you find something you like in the hobby, do it. If not, then get out of the way.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Ernie Howard Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 6:49 PM To: Dave Guimont Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Organized Chaos.
And now for a dissenting opinion.....
FM sats work. They serve a good purpose. I, and a hundreds of other sat ops enjoy them. Sometimes the communications can be chaos, but most passes here they are not over used.
Dave are you one of the guys who also complained about the 'ditters' on the linear birds? And the guys who don't follow the 'one true rule' on the linear birds? And the guys who slide by up/down onto your qso on the linear birds? And the guys running too much power and loading down the passband on the linear birds. Is that good operating?
Yes, poor operating habits can appear anywhere. So instead of grinding your ax all the time, be an elmer.
Ernie
Dave Guimont wrote:
John, the operation of FM voice satellites is a travesty
for ham radio...
I've been licensed for 57 years, on amateur satellites for
33 years
(Oscar 7) and the FM voice operation is the most ridiculous aberration I've witnessed in all of amateur
radio...Pandemonium
exists here also!!
It is pretty obvious NO COMMUNICATION exists on AO51, all of their communication is on here. Why do they bother
to turn
the radio on???
Many of us attended AMSAT a lot conventions in an attempt to
discourage throwing that money "down the tubes" on FM voice,
to no
avail. Someone had an "ax to grind", and several of the
existing
"powers that be" in AMSAT-NA told me to "mind my own
business". They
were obviously the "ax grinders".
FM voice on the amateur satellites is about equal to the
same degree
of difficulty as a cell phone operation!
No wonder our membership is deteriorating.
Ancient AO7 and present VO52 hopefully are keeping some
interest,
until Europe launches P3E....
That's where my donations go.....
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings:
Good grief here we go again. Got to revisit this about every year I guess. Wow!
On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 7:44 PM, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Im tired of the old FM bashers. The FM birds attract a lot of users and QRM. So cleary a lot of folks like them.
Besides, tune into any of hundreds of frequencies on the ham bands during a contest and you will hear the same thing. Zero usefull commmunications capability but a heck of a lot of folks seem to be enjoying it.
I wish the old fud FM bashers would just go find something in Ham radio they enjoy and go do it, rather than complaining about what others find fun in the hobby..
My experience in 46 years of ham radio is that there is room in it for everyone and everyone's interests. But nothing, absolutely nothing, is gained by bashing what other people enjoy. If you find something you like in the hobby, do it. If not, then get out of the way.
Bob
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Ernie Howard Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 6:49 PM To: Dave Guimont Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Organized Chaos.
And now for a dissenting opinion.....
FM sats work. They serve a good purpose. I, and a hundreds of other sat ops enjoy them. Sometimes the communications can be chaos, but most passes here they are not over used.
Dave are you one of the guys who also complained about the 'ditters' on the linear birds? And the guys who don't follow the 'one true rule' on the linear birds? And the guys who slide by up/down onto your qso on the linear birds? And the guys running too much power and loading down the passband on the linear birds. Is that good operating?
Yes, poor operating habits can appear anywhere. So instead of grinding your ax all the time, be an elmer.
Ernie
Dave Guimont wrote:
John, the operation of FM voice satellites is a travesty
for ham radio...
I've been licensed for 57 years, on amateur satellites for
33 years
(Oscar 7) and the FM voice operation is the most ridiculous aberration I've witnessed in all of amateur
radio...Pandemonium
exists here also!!
It is pretty obvious NO COMMUNICATION exists on AO51, all of their communication is on here. Why do they bother
to turn
the radio on???
Many of us attended AMSAT a lot conventions in an attempt to
discourage throwing that money "down the tubes" on FM voice,
to no
avail. Someone had an "ax to grind", and several of the
existing
"powers that be" in AMSAT-NA told me to "mind my own
business". They
were obviously the "ax grinders".
FM voice on the amateur satellites is about equal to the
same degree
of difficulty as a cell phone operation!
No wonder our membership is deteriorating.
Ancient AO7 and present VO52 hopefully are keeping some
interest,
until Europe launches P3E....
That's where my donations go.....
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings:
http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (7)
-
Ben Jackson -
Dave Guimont -
Ernie Howard -
John Hackett -
John Price -
Michael Tondee -
Robert Bruninga