Luc,

I am glad you care enough about AMSAT's future to pay attention to events as they unfold. Rick W2GPS AMSAT LM2232

Now that is about as much politicking as I care to put up with...

73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1@san.rr.com

Disagree: I learn....

Pulling for P3E...

On 15 Jul 2008 at 9:42, David Goncalves wrote:

This reminds me of a short story about a boy on a bicycle and a chicken on the road.

In one part, the boy swerves to avoid the chicken, takes a hard fall and dies. His mother cries - he didn't need to swerve, it was just a chicken! Why did he kill himself saving a chicken!

In another part, the boy sees the danger, and goes ahead and runs over the chicken to save himself. His mother scolds the boy, and thinks him a monster, crying - why did he kill an defenseless chicken!

David Goncalves W1EUJ

Another variation on the same subject.

At supper time the host dog was barking the host look at the dog in the eyes and say "one time" the dog stop barking but he resume his session few minutes later. The host look at the dog in the eyes and say "two time" the dog stop barking but again he start barking again patiently the host look at the dog in the eyes and say "three time" the dog stopped barking but he restart his barking session again. The host pull out a gun and he shoot the dog!

His wife at the table called him a monster, crying - why do you kill a defenceless dog!

The host turned toward her looking her in the eyes and say "one time"!

"-"

Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE

Luc,

You and Dave are very creative. Wouldn't it be wonderful if you used your creativity for something useful and positive? I'm sure there must be something you can do that would help the Ham community you obviously care so much about.

Rick W2GPS AMSAT LM2232

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Luc Leblanc Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:40 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Cc: eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!

On 15 Jul 2008 at 9:42, David Goncalves wrote:

This reminds me of a short story about a boy on a bicycle and a chicken on the road.

In one part, the boy swerves to avoid the chicken, takes a hard fall and dies. His mother cries - he didn't need to swerve, it was just a chicken! Why did he kill himself saving a chicken!

In another part, the boy sees the danger, and goes ahead and runs over the chicken to save himself. His mother scolds the boy, and thinks him a monster, crying - why did he kill an defenseless chicken!

David Goncalves W1EUJ

Another variation on the same subject.

At supper time the host dog was barking the host look at the dog in the eyes and say "one time" the dog stop barking but he resume his session few minutes later. The host look at the dog in the eyes and say "two time" the dog stop barking but again he start barking again patiently the host look at the dog in the eyes and say "three time" the dog stopped barking but he restart his barking session again. The host pull out a gun and he shoot the dog!

His wife at the table called him a monster, crying - why do you kill a defenceless dog!

The host turned toward her looking her in the eyes and say "one time"!

"-"

Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE

_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

On Jul 15, 2008, at 8:39 AM, Luc Leblanc wrote:

His wife at the table called him a monster, crying - why do you kill a defenceless dog!

The host turned toward her looking her in the eyes and say "one time"!

A little boy named Luc cried out again that AMSAT wasn't doing what he wants, but didn't offer any real solutions that will work -- and the entire mailing list looked at him together and said, "three time".

-- Nate Duehr, WY0X nate@natetech.com

I think I will go find the unsubscribe instructions . . . how foolish to bother fellow ham radio operators with comments like this. Just looks bad.

W9VNE

----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca To: eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Cc: amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:26 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!

On 15 Jul 2008 at 21:07, Nate Duehr wrote:

...

A little boy named Luc cried out again that AMSAT wasn't doing what he wants, but didn't offer any real solutions that will work -- and the entire mailing list looked at him together and said, "three time".

-- Nate Duehr, WY0X nate@natetech.com

As someone wrote

"Only the leaders ideas are promoted even if they are no more up to date as they are getting trailing support by few foul mouth it is a vicious circle who fortunately start to break up..."

The diseases is spreading...GM is collapsing towards a possible bankruptcy. Budweiser is now owned by a belguim company. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are lurking with bankruptcy too. Some post on AMSAT-BB are a possible explanation about the root of the disease. When a dog feel he's attacked when he's in a dead end with no escape possible he bites. His animal survival instinct often make's him appears having rabies.

Fun too see how close human's reactions are from the animal world.

Fortunately here some help about the first symptoms

The first symptoms are usually non-specific, flu-like symptoms - fever, tiredness, headache that may last for a few days. In the acute stage, which quickly follows, an individual exhibits anxiety, confusion, insomnia, agitation, hallucinations and hyperactivity (furious rabies) or paralysis (dumb rabies). The acute period usually ends after 2 to 10 days. In both furious and dumb rabies, a complete paralysis develops, followed by coma. Death occurs during the first 7 days of illness without intensive care.

Please note in our case study:

Our individual also exhibits sign of anxiety, confusion, agitation and hallucinations!

As read on another post " I am 80 years old and know that ignoring them is the best way to treat them, but sometimes they just go too far."

But how to ignore an attacking dog?

My answer is ALWAYS SMILE :)

And here is a short story to ease your tension and blood pressure.

Bush, Putin and Chretien are in hell and they ask the devil if they can called their own country. The devil say yes and he show them the red phone.

Chretien called first at the end of the call he hang the phone and he asked the devil "how much for the call?" The devil say 2 millions. Chretien was furious and he ask why? the devil say you are in hell here and it is a long distance call.

Putin want's to call home too the devil shout go ahead! At the end of the call he also ask "How much" 2 millions the devil said. It is a long distance also for me? the devil say YES.

Bush also called home and he asked also how much, the devil say 2$ Bush ask why it is so low the devil say it is a local call for you!

P.S. There is no connection between any individual and any animal species in the above text if you misinterpreted the text please don't bite me...

"-"

Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE

David,

You are right on a number of points. The AMSAT Web site has gone down hill since Emily retired from maintaining it and no one else volunteered. The AMSAT Store has been down for quite a while. Both of these are being fixed. The store will be back on line at its new host location in a matter of hours. Soon we will start a total revamp of the Web site to make it easier to maintain and to allow the data to be updated by those who have the latest information.

I will be speaking with Gould this evening and I will pass along you concerns about Area Coordinators. AMSAT is very grateful for the service of these ACs and we try to provide them with all the information and support we can. I'm sure we can do better, however.

I have not fired anyone. I have asked three team leaders to take a 'time out" from being team leaders to let their disputes cool down while a presidential advisory commission looks into reorganizing the engineering department to make it more effective and to focus the team efforts on tangible results. I have asked all project volunteers to keep working. I have spoken to Jim Sanford at length during this period of change. He has provided valuable support and advice but is not available to step into an active role yet because of the pressures of his real world job.

Your statement that "you folks are so enduring to yourselves" shows a disappointing lack of understanding. We are volunteers who try our best. Sometimes we do well, which almost no one notices, and sometimes we make mistakes, which generates plenty of comments. In the end we are just Hams who are trying to do something special and getting precious little in return. It is a thankless job. If you would like to know more or volunteer for an influential position please contact me off line.

Rick

W2GPS

AMSAT LM2232

_____

From: David Smith [mailto:w6te@msn.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 1:38 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org; Rick Hambly (W2GPS) Cc: eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: NAMSATE AND EAGLE PROJECT ARE DEAD!!!

Rick,

I've been volunteering as an Area Coordinator since 1978 or so. Before that I was a Project Oscar member from 1972.. I've never seen this organization and the support of A/C's as dysfunctional as it is now! The AMSAT Website is a disgrace and hasn't been updated in many months. The on line purchasing of stuff doesn't work. I was one of the volunteers who worked on the 70 CM Prototype Telemetry receiver. I was the guy that put the Excel spreadsheet together to identify, order and track parts...

In any event, from my standpoint, the Area Coordinators haven't had any real support for years. Information out of the organization is dismal! ... So you've FIRED everyone on Eagle.... I should try to follow politics in this organization more closely.... I don't do that.... I think, however that it's time for a change in leadership. When I was one of the individuals working on the 70 cm telemeter receivers, Jim Stafford was the Project Manager. Jim was an excellent PM. What happened?????

I think sometimes you folks are so enduring to yourselves, you think you have everything in control and don't realize the support and organization is crumbling around you. And the worst of it all.... YOU let happen and didn't do anything to change things.!!

Dave Smith W6TE

...

I think, however that it's time for a change in leadership.

How about a change in who does all the work. If AMSAT could just get as much actual productive space-quality work out of all the hot air complainers as they get useless naysaying, those beleagered workers might actually be able to make some progres.

I've been complaining about similar tactics... objecting mostly, to the use of FM voice vs ssb/cw.

And most people are getting tired of hearing it. Just get out of the way. The beleagered few who are doing the work need support not constant rock throwing...

At this point I am not sure there are any feathers in the bag, mostly rocks!!

And some never resist an opportunity to throw more on their backs...

Try AO51, and if one tries anything other than a call sign, grid square, pandemonium ensues telling me to get off the air!!

In ham radio it is best to adopt the proper protocol/etiquette on any given channel, than to forceably try to use a technique known to be disruptive to the communications techniques already in use.

First time I've ever heard that on ham radio after being licensed for 60 years!!

Actually, back then, I thought people were more polite. Forcing CW on voice freqs, forcing SSB on CW freqs, forcing AM on SSB freqs, forcing contest operation on rag chew freqs and forcing rag-chew on contest freqs are all examples of things that are normally avoided by considerate operators. Forcing others on AO-51 to one's own opinionated style of operating also is probably not being considerate to others..

Somebody do something!!

AMSAT is we. Everyone is somebody. But "doing something" does not mean complaining about and blocking what others do. If one is not helping, then they need to just get out of the way...

73, [SIGNED] Disagree: I learn.... Pulling for P3E...

And apparently fighting and rock throwing against everything else...

I believe those volunteers in AMSAT are doing the best they can, and in ham radio it is well known that no single path will please everyone. But for sure, they can make progress on whatever path they are on if they are not constantly being bombarded by rocks from the peanut gallery...

Bob, WB4APR

On 14 Jul 2008 at 14:59, Rick Hambly (W2GPS) wrote:

Luc,

I am glad you care enough about AMSAT's future to pay attention to events as they unfold. It appears that you have misinterpreted recent events, however. AMSAT's engineering department is undergoing a reorganization that we hope will allow us to better focus on the results our members have been looking for and improve cooperation among the development teams. There is nothing sinister going on at all.

AMSAT members will be getting more detailed information through the Journal and the engineering mailing lists in the coming days and weeks.

Rick W2GPS AMSAT LM2232

Hi

Regarding "misinterpretations" i refer you to the "The Little Prince" book especially his visit to asteroids 325 and 326 each of which is inhabited by an adult who is foolish in his own way:

325 The King who can "control" the stars by ordering them to do what they would anyway. He then relates this to human subjects; it is the citizen's duty to obey, but only if the king's demands are reasonable. He orders the Prince to leave as his ambassador.

326 The Conceited Man who wants to be admired by everyone, but lives alone on his planet. He cannot hear anything that is not a compliment.

I care as much as per my Hobby as you but not as much as you care about your membership and volunteers ideas!

A i wrote "NAMASTE and EAGLE project are from my point of view literally dead! For those who are still believing on a HEO made by AMSAT-NA forget it they "HALTED" NAMASTE and fired out the EAGLE team leaders" i agree with you there is nothing sinister when you wrote

" At this time, all group leaders on the Eagle project are relieved of their leadership duties."

Read the book...

P.S. You should have wrote "AMSAT members will be getting more detailed information through the Journal and the engineering mailing lists in the coming years and decade". Your move will only change the time line...

"-"

Luc Leblanc VE2DWE A former AMSAT-NA member

At Ham Radio 2008 the AMSAT-DL P3E update included the statement that "the cost quoted by Arianespace for the launch of P3E is outside the budget of AMSAT-DL." Are they talking about the same dead horse?

73,

John KD6OZH

Luc, tnx fer ur research and publication...Many amateur satellite operators in the world are of the same opinion...AMSAT-NA is beating a dead horse...

Absence of HEO, necessitates confirmation of those facts, NOW on 20 meters! Just the way we traded information for the early satellites.

I ran one of the early 20 meter satellite nets, hopefully a P3E launch will not require 20 meters to globally communicate again...

COMMUNICATION is the name of the game....nearly impossible now....if you want grid squares use your cell phone!!

       73, Dave, WB6LLO
           dguimon1@san.rr.com

               Disagree: I learn....

          Pulling for P3E...

---

Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

----- Original Message ----- From: "John B. Stephensen" kd6ozh@comcast.net To: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca; "Dave Guimont" dguimon1@san.rr.com Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO Launch Costs

At Ham Radio 2008 the AMSAT-DL P3E update included the statement that "the cost quoted by Arianespace for the launch of P3E is outside the budget of AMSAT-DL."

73,

John KD6OZH

Hi John, KD6OZH

Even if the cost quoted by Arianespace for the launch of P3E is outside the budged of AMSAT-DL I am confident that they will find the strategy and the policy to get it into orbit because P3E will carry the X band transponder that has been designed to test the possibility to use the X band for the Mars probe P5A and many scientific Institutions are interested in P5A

In the following paper written for P5A

http://www.amsat-dl.org/p5a/p5a-to-mars.pdf

Doctor Karl Meinzer, DJ4ZC writes:

"Such a mission requires money which can certainly not be raised from AMSAT or from amateur radio. Ho-wever, since such a project finds interest for many reasons from other institutions, and the ability to finance such a mission appears to be a smaller problem, if it remains in the scope of customary AMSAT projects."

http://ticket-to-mars.org/en_EN/mission.html

In my opinion if the ability to finance a P5A mission appears to be a smaller problem it seems to me that to finance a P3E launch should be not impossible with the help of the scientific Institutions +Arianespace and the amateur community.

The good policy and strategy of AMSAT-DL was to include a X band experiment into P3E wich is vital to test the ability to use the X band for P5A and many scientific Institution like Bockum are interested in P5A

If P5A becomes a reality in the future many amateur stations will cooperate to collect telemetry from the Mars probe and so our amateur contribution to the scientific Institutions will pay the effort to have P3E launched for the rest of the amateur satellite communications.

It seems to me that P3E and P5A are based both on a scientific and amateur interest because they are casted over a common solid pillar that make happy at the same time scientist people and the amateurs community.

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

Raising money from scientific institutions is the right thing do. AMSAT-NA is also trying to raise money from different sources. Since the sources are different, they are not competing and I don't see why we should kill off one effort before either succedes.

73,

John KD6OZH

----- Original Message ----- From: "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it To: "AMSAT-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org; "Dave Guimont" dguimon1@san.rr.com; "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca; "John B. Stephensen" kd6ozh@comcast.net Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 16:13 UTC Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] HEO Launch Costs

----- Original Message ----- From: "John B. Stephensen" kd6ozh@comcast.net To: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca; "Dave Guimont" dguimon1@san.rr.com Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 3:00 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] HEO Launch Costs

...

At Ham Radio 2008 the AMSAT-DL P3E update included the statement that "the cost quoted by Arianespace for the launch of P3E is outside the budget of AMSAT-DL."

73,

John KD6OZH

Hi John, KD6OZH

Even if the cost quoted by Arianespace for the launch of P3E is outside the budged of AMSAT-DL I am confident that they will find the strategy and the policy to get it into orbit because P3E will carry the X band transponder that has been designed to test the possibility to use the X band for the Mars probe P5A and many scientific Institutions are interested in P5A

In the following paper written for P5A

http://www.amsat-dl.org/p5a/p5a-to-mars.pdf

Doctor Karl Meinzer, DJ4ZC writes:

"Such a mission requires money which can certainly not be raised from AMSAT or from amateur radio. Ho-wever, since such a project finds interest for many reasons from other institutions, and the ability to finance such a mission appears to be a smaller problem, if it remains in the scope of customary AMSAT projects."

http://ticket-to-mars.org/en_EN/mission.html

In my opinion if the ability to finance a P5A mission appears to be a smaller problem it seems to me that to finance a P3E launch should be not impossible with the help of the scientific Institutions +Arianespace and the amateur community.

The good policy and strategy of AMSAT-DL was to include a X band experiment into P3E wich is vital to test the ability to use the X band for P5A and many scientific Institution like Bockum are interested in P5A

If P5A becomes a reality in the future many amateur stations will cooperate to collect telemetry from the Mars probe and so our amateur contribution to the scientific Institutions will pay the effort to have P3E launched for the rest of the amateur satellite communications.

It seems to me that P3E and P5A are based both on a scientific and amateur interest because they are casted over a common solid pillar that make happy at the same time scientist people and the amateurs community.

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

i8cvs wrote:

A two-horses stagecoach is much better then two rocking horses pulling each a single carriage.

But two horses each pulling a separate carriage with the same cargo have double the chance or arriving safely.