Re: [amsat-bb] ARRL Antenna book, eggbeater antenna designs (not)
Eggbeaters are ideal antennas for omnidirectional coverage with dual polarization for strong signals with minimum fades....
But like any antenna, to get gain somewhere, you have to give up gain elsewhere. Here are all the issues and my opinions.
1) Satellites on the horizon are 10 dB farther away than ones above 22 degrees (2000 miles vs 700 miles). 2) Splitting gain into circular polarization (Eggbeaters) loses 3 dB compared to incoming linear polarization 3) Small sats usually have linear antennas or, if they have cross polarization then even if they are RHCP when approaching, they may be LHCP going away, thus you still have a 50/50 chance of having a polarization mismatch, though having both polarizations will minimize most fades. 4) Most small Amateur sateliltes have less than 1W transmitters and simply cannot be heard on the horizon without several dB gain.
My Conslusions are: 1) An Egg beater is ideal for STRONG satellites (Think ISS with 10 Watts). It will minimize fades horizon to horizon. 2) But there are NO, NONE, NADA current amateur satellites (not even the ISS right now) at that power level. 4) Hence an eggbeater even with a dB or so gain on the horizon simply is not going to hear anything until the satellite gets above about 20 degrees (when it is 10 dB closer) 5) So, why even bother with an eggbeater. 6) Use a simple 19.5" quarter wave vertical over a ground plane (for 2m). It will have 5 dBi gain above about 15 degrees (several dB better than an eggbeater). 7) and it will ALSO WORK even better as a 7 dBi gain UHF antenna (3/4 wave vertical) above about 25 degrees up to 70 degrees (6 dB better than an Eggbeater)...
AND it is DUAL band as well! (on the same coax!)
BUT, what about the donut hole overhead for these vertical antennas?
Forgetaboutit.!.... The satellite is only above 70 degrees about 1% of the total pass times per day! And then for less than about 30 seconds!
To visualize the orbit actual geometry see the scale plot on: http://aprs.org/LEO-tracking.html
So, in my humble opinion, a 19.5" vertical whip antenna in the middle of a car roof (neat ground plane) will give pretty good satellite coverage. It will have some fades due to only one polarization, but the strong part of the cycle will be 3 dB stronger than it would be on a dual polarizatiaon antenna. And you don't have to be parked on a mountain. Since again, no omni antenna can hear these weak satellites on the horizon anyway, so as long as the trees are far enough away to give you sky above about 20 degrees, you will have about the best coverage you can get for about a 20" of copper wire and a nice ground plane..
In my opinion anyway.
AND*** If you want to hear them all the way horizon to horizon, buy a $65 TV rotator and attach a small 5 to 6 element beam tilted up at about 15 degrees and hear them all! See above web page...
Bob, Wb4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Devin L. Ganger via AMSAT-BB Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] ARRL Antenna book, eggbeater antenna designs
Greetings, programs!
I'm looking to work with my son (who will be studying to get his Technician license later this month) on building a UHF/VHF pair of eggbeater antennas. I've found a few papers online, but does anyone have a good reference to a detailed design?
Does the ARRL Antenna book latest edition have any significant coverage of eggbeaters at all? I have an older version that has nothing.
Also, most of the designs I see are for a single band. If you're deploying a pair for satellite operations, do you simply attach them through a duplexer? I have a Diamond MX-72N that I picked up a while ago for using with dual Baofengs, but it's been sitting in my drawer since I picked up my TH-D72A. It has a 1.6~150MHz lead and a 350~460MHz lead.
Thanks in advance for any pointers you might have.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: [email protected]mailto:[email protected] web: Devin on Earthhttp://www.devinonearth.com/ cell: +1 425.239.2575
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thank you, that is helpful discussion. Many points to ponder.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: [email protected] web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
________________________________ From: Robert Bruninga [email protected] Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 2:32 PM To: AMSAT-BB Cc: Devin L. Ganger Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] ARRL Antenna book, eggbeater antenna designs (not)
Eggbeaters are ideal antennas for omnidirectional coverage with dual polarization for strong signals with minimum fades....
But like any antenna, to get gain somewhere, you have to give up gain elsewhere. Here are all the issues and my opinions.
1) Satellites on the horizon are 10 dB farther away than ones above 22 degrees (2000 miles vs 700 miles). 2) Splitting gain into circular polarization (Eggbeaters) loses 3 dB compared to incoming linear polarization 3) Small sats usually have linear antennas or, if they have cross polarization then even if they are RHCP when approaching, they may be LHCP going away, thus you still have a 50/50 chance of having a polarization mismatch, though having both polarizations will minimize most fades. 4) Most small Amateur sateliltes have less than 1W transmitters and simply cannot be heard on the horizon without several dB gain.
My Conslusions are: 1) An Egg beater is ideal for STRONG satellites (Think ISS with 10 Watts). It will minimize fades horizon to horizon. 2) But there are NO, NONE, NADA current amateur satellites (not even the ISS right now) at that power level. 4) Hence an eggbeater even with a dB or so gain on the horizon simply is not going to hear anything until the satellite gets above about 20 degrees (when it is 10 dB closer) 5) So, why even bother with an eggbeater. 6) Use a simple 19.5" quarter wave vertical over a ground plane (for 2m). It will have 5 dBi gain above about 15 degrees (several dB better than an eggbeater). 7) and it will ALSO WORK even better as a 7 dBi gain UHF antenna (3/4 wave vertical) above about 25 degrees up to 70 degrees (6 dB better than an Eggbeater)...
AND it is DUAL band as well! (on the same coax!)
BUT, what about the donut hole overhead for these vertical antennas?
Forgetaboutit.!.... The satellite is only above 70 degrees about 1% of the total pass times per day! And then for less than about 30 seconds!
To visualize the orbit actual geometry see the scale plot on: http://aprs.org/LEO-tracking.html
So, in my humble opinion, a 19.5" vertical whip antenna in the middle of a car roof (neat ground plane) will give pretty good satellite coverage. It will have some fades due to only one polarization, but the strong part of the cycle will be 3 dB stronger than it would be on a dual polarizatiaon antenna. And you don't have to be parked on a mountain. Since again, no omni antenna can hear these weak satellites on the horizon anyway, so as long as the trees are far enough away to give you sky above about 20 degrees, you will have about the best coverage you can get for about a 20" of copper wire and a nice ground plane..
In my opinion anyway.
AND*** If you want to hear them all the way horizon to horizon, buy a $65 TV rotator and attach a small 5 to 6 element beam tilted up at about 15 degrees and hear them all! See above web page...
Bob, Wb4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Devin L. Ganger via AMSAT-BB Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] ARRL Antenna book, eggbeater antenna designs
Greetings, programs!
I'm looking to work with my son (who will be studying to get his Technician license later this month) on building a UHF/VHF pair of eggbeater antennas. I've found a few papers online, but does anyone have a good reference to a detailed design?
Does the ARRL Antenna book latest edition have any significant coverage of eggbeaters at all? I have an older version that has nothing.
Also, most of the designs I see are for a single band. If you're deploying a pair for satellite operations, do you simply attach them through a duplexer? I have a Diamond MX-72N that I picked up a while ago for using with dual Baofengs, but it's been sitting in my drawer since I picked up my TH-D72A. It has a 1.6~150MHz lead and a 350~460MHz lead.
Thanks in advance for any pointers you might have.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: [email protected]mailto:[email protected] web: Devin on Earthhttp://www.devinonearth.com/ cell: +1 425.239.2575
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
WB4APR's summary matches my personal assessment of eggbeaters, having tried them on LEO's myself for a period of test: Eggbeaters are mediocre at best for our LEO, amateur satellite fleet.
There are situations eggbeaters may have their place:
1. A fixed installation, such as telemetry gathering, in which you absolutely can't afford risk of mechanical rotor failure.
2. A backup to a directional array.
3. The satellite has a very strong downlink.
Beyond that I can't recommend them for anyone. I learned, like Bob said below, that a 1/4 wave ground plane on 2m is as effective or better. I've copied thousands of telemetry frames with an inexpensive, SO-239 chassis connector-based ground plane. This was in a very low-noise area with no obstructions. Keep the feedline as short as possible, use quality feedline, and consider use of RX preamplifier as necessary.
I will say this, people DO make contacts on eggbeaters. They also make contacts with mobile whips and rubber ducks. Some folks are more successful than others at this. On a regular basis I can quickly ascertain when the other station in QSO with me is on an eggbeater or omni.
Two major factors at play can make or break an eggbeater being useful:
1. Terrain/obstructions. Eggbeaters in the middle of your forested backyard are a total waste. Can you put them on the roof if it clears the trees? Are you in the concrete jungle?
2. RFI/noise. Eggbeaters are far more prone to local RFI than a directional antenna aimed at the satellite. I've seen some situations where an omni couldn't copy a single telemetry frame, yet a 2 element yagi was copying the telemetry in exactly the same observation point from horizon to horizon.
In summary, I would recommend building an eggbeater with scrap materials versus buying a commercial one, so that no tears are shed over lost money once it's tossed into the rubbish bin.
73, Clayton W5PFG
On 5/3/2019 16:32, Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Eggbeaters are ideal antennas for omnidirectional coverage with dual polarization for strong signals with minimum fades....
But like any antenna, to get gain somewhere, you have to give up gain elsewhere. Here are all the issues and my opinions.
- Satellites on the horizon are 10 dB farther away than ones above 22
degrees (2000 miles vs 700 miles). 2) Splitting gain into circular polarization (Eggbeaters) loses 3 dB compared to incoming linear polarization 3) Small sats usually have linear antennas or, if they have cross polarization then even if they are RHCP when approaching, they may be LHCP going away, thus you still have a 50/50 chance of having a polarization mismatch, though having both polarizations will minimize most fades. 4) Most small Amateur sateliltes have less than 1W transmitters and simply cannot be heard on the horizon without several dB gain.
My Conslusions are:
- An Egg beater is ideal for STRONG satellites (Think ISS with 10 Watts).
It will minimize fades horizon to horizon. 2) But there are NO, NONE, NADA current amateur satellites (not even the ISS right now) at that power level. 4) Hence an eggbeater even with a dB or so gain on the horizon simply is not going to hear anything until the satellite gets above about 20 degrees (when it is 10 dB closer) 5) So, why even bother with an eggbeater. 6) Use a simple 19.5" quarter wave vertical over a ground plane (for 2m). It will have 5 dBi gain above about 15 degrees (several dB better than an eggbeater). 7) and it will ALSO WORK even better as a 7 dBi gain UHF antenna (3/4 wave vertical) above about 25 degrees up to 70 degrees (6 dB better than an Eggbeater)...
AND it is DUAL band as well! (on the same coax!)
BUT, what about the donut hole overhead for these vertical antennas?
Forgetaboutit.!.... The satellite is only above 70 degrees about 1% of the total pass times per day! And then for less than about 30 seconds!
To visualize the orbit actual geometry see the scale plot on: http://aprs.org/LEO-tracking.html
So, in my humble opinion, a 19.5" vertical whip antenna in the middle of a car roof (neat ground plane) will give pretty good satellite coverage. It will have some fades due to only one polarization, but the strong part of the cycle will be 3 dB stronger than it would be on a dual polarizatiaon antenna. And you don't have to be parked on a mountain. Since again, no omni antenna can hear these weak satellites on the horizon anyway, so as long as the trees are far enough away to give you sky above about 20 degrees, you will have about the best coverage you can get for about a 20" of copper wire and a nice ground plane..
In my opinion anyway.
AND*** If you want to hear them all the way horizon to horizon, buy a $65 TV rotator and attach a small 5 to 6 element beam tilted up at about 15 degrees and hear them all! See above web page...
Bob, Wb4APR
Completely agree with what Bob said and have one thing to add. I have had personal experience using an eggbeater during an ARISS voice contact (backup system). It did ok at the highest elevations of the pass, but really struggled closer to the horizons. The eggbeater has been retired to storage.
Dave Johnson W9DWJ
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 4:48 PM Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
Eggbeaters are ideal antennas for omnidirectional coverage with dual polarization for strong signals with minimum fades....
But like any antenna, to get gain somewhere, you have to give up gain elsewhere. Here are all the issues and my opinions.
- Satellites on the horizon are 10 dB farther away than ones above 22
degrees (2000 miles vs 700 miles). 2) Splitting gain into circular polarization (Eggbeaters) loses 3 dB compared to incoming linear polarization 3) Small sats usually have linear antennas or, if they have cross polarization then even if they are RHCP when approaching, they may be LHCP going away, thus you still have a 50/50 chance of having a polarization mismatch, though having both polarizations will minimize most fades. 4) Most small Amateur sateliltes have less than 1W transmitters and simply cannot be heard on the horizon without several dB gain.
My Conslusions are:
- An Egg beater is ideal for STRONG satellites (Think ISS with 10 Watts).
It will minimize fades horizon to horizon. 2) But there are NO, NONE, NADA current amateur satellites (not even the ISS right now) at that power level. 4) Hence an eggbeater even with a dB or so gain on the horizon simply is not going to hear anything until the satellite gets above about 20 degrees (when it is 10 dB closer) 5) So, why even bother with an eggbeater. 6) Use a simple 19.5" quarter wave vertical over a ground plane (for 2m). It will have 5 dBi gain above about 15 degrees (several dB better than an eggbeater). 7) and it will ALSO WORK even better as a 7 dBi gain UHF antenna (3/4 wave vertical) above about 25 degrees up to 70 degrees (6 dB better than an Eggbeater)...
AND it is DUAL band as well! (on the same coax!)
BUT, what about the donut hole overhead for these vertical antennas?
Forgetaboutit.!.... The satellite is only above 70 degrees about 1% of the total pass times per day! And then for less than about 30 seconds!
To visualize the orbit actual geometry see the scale plot on: http://aprs.org/LEO-tracking.html
So, in my humble opinion, a 19.5" vertical whip antenna in the middle of a car roof (neat ground plane) will give pretty good satellite coverage. It will have some fades due to only one polarization, but the strong part of the cycle will be 3 dB stronger than it would be on a dual polarizatiaon antenna. And you don't have to be parked on a mountain. Since again, no omni antenna can hear these weak satellites on the horizon anyway, so as long as the trees are far enough away to give you sky above about 20 degrees, you will have about the best coverage you can get for about a 20" of copper wire and a nice ground plane..
In my opinion anyway.
AND*** If you want to hear them all the way horizon to horizon, buy a $65 TV rotator and attach a small 5 to 6 element beam tilted up at about 15 degrees and hear them all! See above web page...
Bob, Wb4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Devin L. Ganger via AMSAT-BB Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] ARRL Antenna book, eggbeater antenna designs
Greetings, programs!
I'm looking to work with my son (who will be studying to get his Technician license later this month) on building a UHF/VHF pair of eggbeater antennas. I've found a few papers online, but does anyone have a good reference to a detailed design?
Does the ARRL Antenna book latest edition have any significant coverage of eggbeaters at all? I have an older version that has nothing.
Also, most of the designs I see are for a single band. If you're deploying a pair for satellite operations, do you simply attach them through a duplexer? I have a Diamond MX-72N that I picked up a while ago for using with dual Baofengs, but it's been sitting in my drawer since I picked up my TH-D72A. It has a 1.6~150MHz lead and a 350~460MHz lead.
Thanks in advance for any pointers you might have.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: [email protected]mailto:[email protected] web: Devin on Earthhttp://www.devinonearth.com/ cell: +1 425.239.2575
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hello Space Communicators!
Here are some observations about Satellite APRS on 145.825 MHz.
1) Receiving is harder than Transmitting. 2) Location is critical, avoid hill tops or parking structures in a city.
As far as Satellite APRS on 145.825 MHz with an Eggbeater, here are some reference points.
My Dad (N6DAN) operates the #1 iGate in the world based on packets received on 145.825 MHz. So, I think that documented track record carries a great deal of merit and credibility. Having said that, he operates two radios, one connected to the EBB144 and another to a directional antenna.
Egg Beater success pivots on two factors:
1) Pre-amp: the EBB is dull and needs help. 2) Noise: the EBB is useless in the city on a high pole, but perfect in rural areas on a high pole. In the city the EBB works best below a wood fence line.
W0ARP operates the #8 iGate in the world based on packets received on 145.825 MHz. He is only running the EBB144 with a pre-amp in a rural area.
Eggbeaters can be useful.
73s
Robert MacHale KE6BLR Ham Radio License http://spaceCommunicator.club http://spacecommunicator.club/ Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio and Space Exploration
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:49 PM Robert Bruninga via AMSAT-BB < [email protected]> wrote:
Eggbeaters are ideal antennas for omnidirectional coverage with dual polarization for strong signals with minimum fades....
But like any antenna, to get gain somewhere, you have to give up gain elsewhere. Here are all the issues and my opinions.
- Satellites on the horizon are 10 dB farther away than ones above 22
degrees (2000 miles vs 700 miles). 2) Splitting gain into circular polarization (Eggbeaters) loses 3 dB compared to incoming linear polarization 3) Small sats usually have linear antennas or, if they have cross polarization then even if they are RHCP when approaching, they may be LHCP going away, thus you still have a 50/50 chance of having a polarization mismatch, though having both polarizations will minimize most fades. 4) Most small Amateur sateliltes have less than 1W transmitters and simply cannot be heard on the horizon without several dB gain.
My Conslusions are:
- An Egg beater is ideal for STRONG satellites (Think ISS with 10 Watts).
It will minimize fades horizon to horizon. 2) But there are NO, NONE, NADA current amateur satellites (not even the ISS right now) at that power level. 4) Hence an eggbeater even with a dB or so gain on the horizon simply is not going to hear anything until the satellite gets above about 20 degrees (when it is 10 dB closer) 5) So, why even bother with an eggbeater. 6) Use a simple 19.5" quarter wave vertical over a ground plane (for 2m). It will have 5 dBi gain above about 15 degrees (several dB better than an eggbeater). 7) and it will ALSO WORK even better as a 7 dBi gain UHF antenna (3/4 wave vertical) above about 25 degrees up to 70 degrees (6 dB better than an Eggbeater)...
AND it is DUAL band as well! (on the same coax!)
BUT, what about the donut hole overhead for these vertical antennas?
Forgetaboutit.!.... The satellite is only above 70 degrees about 1% of the total pass times per day! And then for less than about 30 seconds!
To visualize the orbit actual geometry see the scale plot on: http://aprs.org/LEO-tracking.html
So, in my humble opinion, a 19.5" vertical whip antenna in the middle of a car roof (neat ground plane) will give pretty good satellite coverage. It will have some fades due to only one polarization, but the strong part of the cycle will be 3 dB stronger than it would be on a dual polarizatiaon antenna. And you don't have to be parked on a mountain. Since again, no omni antenna can hear these weak satellites on the horizon anyway, so as long as the trees are far enough away to give you sky above about 20 degrees, you will have about the best coverage you can get for about a 20" of copper wire and a nice ground plane..
In my opinion anyway.
AND*** If you want to hear them all the way horizon to horizon, buy a $65 TV rotator and attach a small 5 to 6 element beam tilted up at about 15 degrees and hear them all! See above web page...
Bob, Wb4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Devin L. Ganger via AMSAT-BB Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 4:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] ARRL Antenna book, eggbeater antenna designs
Greetings, programs!
I'm looking to work with my son (who will be studying to get his Technician license later this month) on building a UHF/VHF pair of eggbeater antennas. I've found a few papers online, but does anyone have a good reference to a detailed design?
Does the ARRL Antenna book latest edition have any significant coverage of eggbeaters at all? I have an older version that has nothing.
Also, most of the designs I see are for a single band. If you're deploying a pair for satellite operations, do you simply attach them through a duplexer? I have a Diamond MX-72N that I picked up a while ago for using with dual Baofengs, but it's been sitting in my drawer since I picked up my TH-D72A. It has a 1.6~150MHz lead and a 350~460MHz lead.
Thanks in advance for any pointers you might have.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: [email protected]mailto:[email protected] web: Devin on Earthhttp://www.devinonearth.com/ cell: +1 425.239.2575
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I know I'm late to this thread so I'll make it short.
Eggbeaters are a piece of junk. Don't waste your time.
OK, in defense of the Eggbeater - ALL omni antennas are going to be pretty crappy at best for satellite operation. Some are better than others, but any of them will be beat by even a small directional antenna. Personally I opted to go the other way. Home: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/Photo/Pics/S-band1.html Mobile: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/Photo/Pics/MobileSat2.html
73 ----- Jim Walls - K6CCC [email protected]
It doesn't really matter how much beef you have with someone who posts a message, or how often that question has been asked. It is on every case better to either post a meaningful response or stay silent. You have to remember that you're not just responding to the initial email, but to the whole list and anyone who reads the archives. I talk daily with high school and college kids who are hams and this behavior really drives them away. Remember that your response about dummy loads, or anything similar is also maybe a response to a 13 year old kid trying to make his or her first antenna to work the satellites with whatever they find in their parent's basement. Better to just stay quiet.
73, Sean WA1TE
On Fri, May 3, 2019, 18:28 jim--- via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
I know I'm late to this thread so I'll make it short.
Eggbeaters are a piece of junk. Don't waste your time.
OK, in defense of the Eggbeater - ALL omni antennas are going to be pretty crappy at best for satellite operation. Some are better than others, but any of them will be beat by even a small directional antenna. Personally I opted to go the other way. Home: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/Photo/Pics/S-band1.html Mobile: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/Photo/Pics/MobileSat2.html
73
Jim Walls - K6CCC [email protected]
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Great post sean!! I agree 100% with everything you said. Bottom line, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem! Personal animus has no place on the list. If you can't play nice, then maybe you shouldn't be playing at all!
As far as the original question - all antennas are a compromise! All antennas have their pros and cons! If you have to use an omni for the sats, you'll likely need to use pre-amps. I've looked at most of the omni options, and I like the Texas Potato Mashers and the lindenblads as decent options (w/ pre-amps). I have yet to implement an omni setup though, so I have no practical experience with them. Juggling a handheld beam and two radios is not easy, especially when compared to the mega-buck setups a lot of people have. However, the satisfaction of successfully working someone on the sats with a handheld setup is the greatest!!
7 3 Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 3:35 PM Sean Waite via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
It doesn't really matter how much beef you have with someone who posts a message, or how often that question has been asked. It is on every case better to either post a meaningful response or stay silent. You have to remember that you're not just responding to the initial email, but to the whole list and anyone who reads the archives. I talk daily with high school and college kids who are hams and this behavior really drives them away. Remember that your response about dummy loads, or anything similar is also maybe a response to a 13 year old kid trying to make his or her first antenna to work the satellites with whatever they find in their parent's basement. Better to just stay quiet.
73, Sean WA1TE
On Fri, May 3, 2019, 18:28 jim--- via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
I know I'm late to this thread so I'll make it short.
Eggbeaters are a piece of junk. Don't waste your time.
OK, in defense of the Eggbeater - ALL omni antennas are going to be
pretty
crappy at best for satellite operation. Some are better than others, but any of them will be beat by even a small directional antenna.
Personally I
opted to go the other way. Home: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/Photo/Pics/S-band1.html Mobile: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/k6ccc/Photo/Pics/MobileSat2.html
73
Jim Walls - K6CCC [email protected]
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I have an M2 eggbeater on the roof of my house. I have it installed with the "ground plane radials" so it is good from about 65 degrees and up. Basically the opposite of what Bob Bruninga recommends. As one might expect it works for downloading telemetry from satellites that are at about 65 degrees elevation and up. I do also use it on the APRS satellites (NO-84 and ISS) for minimal QSOs with moderate success. I do not have a preamp attached.
Bob is correct about eggbeaters vs. verticals and elevation. When I was first starting with the birds I decided to try to get the birds at higher elevations so I set it up that way and it's still that way. I know I'm missing out on the low passes, but I'm OK with that for now.
For the voice birds (mostly SO-50 and AO-92) I use a handheld Arrow antenna and two Baofeng handhelds.
I'm cheap but I have fun.
Steve AI9IN
participants (9)
-
Clayton Coleman W5PFG -
David Johnson -
Devin L. Ganger -
Jeff Moore -
jim＠k6ccc.org -
KE6BLR Robert -
Robert Bruninga -
Sean Waite -
skristof＠etczone.com