Return Mail to wa1rks@yahoo.com Yep ! I remember "Rip" he also was net control on 75/80m net tues nights also. We used to go there ( late 70's early 80's) to get the keps for all the birds back then. AO7,AO8,RS 1-11, etc, then a buddy of mine (now SK) Dick WB1H'IH (his son has his call) Dick and I devised a formula for calculating the orbits from the keps on a calculator converting 60minute type values to dec. so calculator would post times correctly, We'd sit down with calculator and large yellow note pad, and spend few hours, calculating weeks worth of Birds and their times and passes. Used Mylar over lays back then to "see" birds. This is akin to "walking to school every day, uphill both ways in a snowstorm" with no shoes. HI. 73 gud dx to all . CUOTBRDS. de Ellis WA1RKS