Since getting back into satellites a few months ago, I set my first goal to be completing VUCC. 76 grids confirmed, and hoping to possibly finish up this week.
I’m meeting with the VUCC card checker this week to sign off on my 2 Meter VUCC. That took over five years, since I’m limited to a single 6 element Yagi in the attic. At least half of those contacts came via WJST meteor scatter.
Thought it would be nice to get both 2 Meter and Satellite at the same time.
Most of my contacts have come on the linear birds, with over 2/3 of them on FO-29. I realize that there is a lot more activity and grid activation on the FM birds—so I need to spend more time there.
But the chaos of that type of operation just doesn’t appeal to me. Plus the noise levels in the attic make it difficult for me to hear the FM birds very well. SO-50 comes in “pretty well” but the AO birds are often covered with noise and difficult to hear.
Any tips to improve my success rate on FM? Other than completely avoiding weekend operation! :-)
73,
Les Rayburn, N1LF Maylene, AL EM63nf AMSAT #38965, ARRL Life Member, CVHS Life Member, SVHF Member
Not sure if you do this or not, but consider calling people you hear rather than just throwing your call out.
You might also consider repeating every call you hear back in your head so you can do the above more easily. Concentrate and keep trying and eventually you will be able to surf the chaos. Wipe outs will still happen. Sometimes you can hang ten.
Can you operate portable so you don't have to deal with the noise that you pick up in the attic?
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 10:49 PM Les Rayburn les@highnoonfilm.com wrote:
Since getting back into satellites a few months ago, I set my first goal to be completing VUCC. 76 grids confirmed, and hoping to possibly finish up this week.
I’m meeting with the VUCC card checker this week to sign off on my 2 Meter VUCC. That took over five years, since I’m limited to a single 6 element Yagi in the attic. At least half of those contacts came via WJST meteor scatter.
Thought it would be nice to get both 2 Meter and Satellite at the same time.
Most of my contacts have come on the linear birds, with over 2/3 of them on FO-29. I realize that there is a lot more activity and grid activation on the FM birds—so I need to spend more time there.
But the chaos of that type of operation just doesn’t appeal to me. Plus the noise levels in the attic make it difficult for me to hear the FM birds very well. SO-50 comes in “pretty well” but the AO birds are often covered with noise and difficult to hear.
Any tips to improve my success rate on FM? Other than completely avoiding weekend operation! :-)
73,
Les Rayburn, N1LF Maylene, AL EM63nf AMSAT #38965, ARRL Life Member, CVHS Life Member, SVHF Member
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Those are good suggestions. I try to write down calls and grid squares by “reading the mail” on other QSO’s. Then I call that specific station.
I rarely (if ever) just throw out my call. Sometimes when I’m up late at night I’ll do that, or even call CQ but only when the bird is dead quiet.
I’ve got a TH-D72A, and an ELK antenna configured for portable operation. Just waiting on warm and dry days to give it a try from the backyard. This winter has been one of the wettest on record here.
Do wish more operators would be more considerate when the bird is busy. My “wish list” would include:
Make one QSO, then just monitor the rest of the pass—unless someone calls you. Check Twitter to see if anyone is activating a rare grid. If so, let them control the flow of contacts on the bird. This is especially true of Western grids. Often the pass is very short for those grids, and stations in the East have a limited time to work them. But the bird is often filled with Eastern stations working other Eastern stations during the whole pass. Resist turning up the power to “muscle” your way in.
During one pass earlier this evening, I listened to a single QRO station make 5 or 6 contacts during a very crowded pass—simply by muscling other stations, talking over other operators, etc.
We clearly need more FM birds because the demand is very high. Meanwhile a lot of the linear satellites are empty or nearly so.
73,
Les Rayburn, N1LF Maylene, AL EM63nf AMSAT #38965, ARRL Life Member, CVHS Life Member, SVHF Member
Les, good advice. Speaking western grids Patrick WD9EWK will be on the DM12/DM22 grid boundary today.73Rick Tejera (K7TEJ)Saguaro Astronomy ClubWww.saguaroastro.orgThunderbird Astronomy ClubWww.w7tbc.org -------- Original message --------From: Les Rayburn les@highnoonfilm.com Date: 2/16/19 21:30 (GMT-07:00) To: John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com Cc: Work-Sat@groups.io, AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Birds, New Grids, and Chaos Those are good suggestions. I try to write down calls and grid squares by “reading the mail” on other QSO’s. Then I call that specific station. I rarely (if ever) just throw out my call. Sometimes when I’m up late at night I’ll do that, or even call CQ but only when the bird is dead quiet. I’ve got a TH-D72A, and an ELK antenna configured for portable operation. Just waiting on warm and dry days to give it a try from the backyard. This winter has been one of the wettest on record here. Do wish more operators would be more considerate when the bird is busy. My “wish list” would include: Make one QSO, then just monitor the rest of the pass—unless someone calls you. Check Twitter to see if anyone is activating a rare grid. If so, let them control the flow of contacts on the bird. This is especially true of Western grids. Often the pass is very short for those grids, and stations in the East have a limited time to work them. But the bird is often filled with Eastern stations working other Eastern stations during the whole pass. Resist turning up the power to “muscle” your way in. During one pass earlier this evening, I listened to a single QRO station make 5 or 6 contacts during a very crowded pass—simply by muscling other stations, talking over other operators, etc. We clearly need more FM birds because the demand is very high. Meanwhile a lot of the linear satellites are empty or nearly so. 73,Les Rayburn, N1LFMaylene, AL EM63nfAMSAT #38965, ARRL Life Member, CVHS Life Member, SVHF Member_______________________________________________Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum availableto all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressedare solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dear Les N1LF,
You wrote "Do wish more operators would be more considerate when the bird is busy" that rings a bell. In the last six months or so, the fun of getting into the easy sats is attracting more hams. It is getting more crowded than ever, and the simple recommendation from AMSAT (below) is starting to make much more sense...
As a good practice, AMSAT recommends NOT to call stations that one has QSO-ed in the recent past, giving others a better chance, esp., when someone has taken the trouble to put a new grid on the air. I do notice some of the "seasoned" hams practice this quite literally. Something to think about...
73!Umeshk6vug
On Saturday, February 16, 2019, 8:30:47 PM PST, Les Rayburn les@highnoonfilm.com wrote:
Those are good suggestions. I try to write down calls and grid squares by “reading the mail” on other QSO’s. Then I call that specific station.
I rarely (if ever) just throw out my call. Sometimes when I’m up late at night I’ll do that, or even call CQ but only when the bird is dead quiet.
I’ve got a TH-D72A, and an ELK antenna configured for portable operation. Just waiting on warm and dry days to give it a try from the backyard. This winter has been one of the wettest on record here.
Do wish more operators would be more considerate when the bird is busy. My “wish list” would include:
Make one QSO, then just monitor the rest of the pass—unless someone calls you. Check Twitter to see if anyone is activating a rare grid. If so, let them control the flow of contacts on the bird. This is especially true of Western grids. Often the pass is very short for those grids, and stations in the East have a limited time to work them. But the bird is often filled with Eastern stations working other Eastern stations during the whole pass. Resist turning up the power to “muscle” your way in.
During one pass earlier this evening, I listened to a single QRO station make 5 or 6 contacts during a very crowded pass—simply by muscling other stations, talking over other operators, etc.
We clearly need more FM birds because the demand is very high. Meanwhile a lot of the linear satellites are empty or nearly so.
73,
Les Rayburn, N1LF Maylene, AL EM63nf AMSAT #38965, ARRL Life Member, CVHS Life Member, SVHF Member
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I can tell you from personal experience as a satellite mentor, giving presentations which always excite potential new satellite users, then having them go into the field to experience the bedlam of a FM Satellite, that they too often become discouraged and give up. Easysat is a very deceptive name, especially on weekends.
73, Bob, WB4SON
Not to deter grid chasing and awards, does every FM bird have to be that way? I do miss my start with "portable stuff" a decade or so ago, and just having quick QSOs with new contacts on SO-50 from the pizzeria parking lot when I visited Mom and Dad...
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 2/19/2019 21:02, Bob wrote:
I can tell you from personal experience as a satellite mentor, giving presentations which always excite potential new satellite users, then having them go into the field to experience the bedlam of a FM Satellite, that they too often become discouraged and give up. Easysat is a very deceptive name, especially on weekends.
73, Bob, WB4SON _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
AMSAT explicitly encourages grid chasing with it's new award system.
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019, 11:30:09 AM EST, Jerry Buxton n0jy@amsat.org wrote:
Not to deter grid chasing and awards, does every FM bird have to be that way? I do miss my start with "portable stuff" a decade or so ago, and just having quick QSOs with new contacts on SO-50 from the pizzeria parking lot when I visited Mom and Dad...
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 2/19/2019 21:02, Bob wrote:
I can tell you from personal experience as a satellite mentor, giving presentations which always excite potential new satellite users, then having them go into the field to experience the bedlam of a FM Satellite, that they too often become discouraged and give up. Easysat is a very deceptive name, especially on weekends.
73, Bob, WB4SON _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Though it also encourages use of linear transponders for grid chasing by giving more points for linear transponder activations.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 11:32 AM Robert Switzer via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
AMSAT explicitly encourages grid chasing with it's new award system.
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019, 11:30:09 AM EST, Jerry Buxton <n0jy@amsat.org> wrote:Not to deter grid chasing and awards, does every FM bird have to be that way? I do miss my start with "portable stuff" a decade or so ago, and just having quick QSOs with new contacts on SO-50 from the pizzeria parking lot when I visited Mom and Dad...
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 2/19/2019 21:02, Bob wrote:
I can tell you from personal experience as a satellite mentor, giving presentations which always excite potential new satellite users, then having them go into the field to experience the bedlam of a FM Satellite, that they too often become discouraged and give up. Easysat is a very deceptive name, especially on weekends.
73, Bob, WB4SON _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi!
AMSAT may encourage this sort of operating, but let's not forget ARRL with its VUCC award, and the VUCC/r for those going out and working from other places - and there may be others, too. N8HM is correct about how AMSAT's Rover Award encourages the use of linear transponders, but not as many are on those passes. Same with using packet or other non-FM modes.
A single-channel satellite will have crowds much of the time. Compared to the days of AO-51 and AO-27 with their 70cm downlinks, I think AO-91 and AO-92 with their 2m downlinks have brought out larger crowds. Unless you're on in the middle of the night, or operating in another part of the world with a small ham population (I saw that in Australia a few years ago), it may be unrealistic to expect to do much more than quick QSOs on FM satellites. New operators are regularly showing up on the FM passes.
It is fun to regularly hear DX stations on AO-91 and AO-92 passes over the continental USA, something we really didn't have as much when SO-50 was the only FM satellite we had for a while. Is AMSAT a victim of its successes with AO-91 and AO-92? Maybe. I'd rather be in the current situation than a few years ago, when we only had SO-50, AO-7 and FO-29 (plus the ISS digipeater) as our amateur satellite lineup.
I like chasing grids from home, enjoy going out and working from wherever I happen to be, and I do a fair bit of promoting AMSAT and satellite operating at events. Crowds understand that the single-channel FM satellites are going to be busy. They also enjoy listening to those passes on their own radios during the demonstrations - the best way to show how easy it is to hear AO-91 and AO-92 downlinks, and previously AO-85. Most in the crowds also understand there are some times where it would be easier to get through than other times. And there's always the opportunities to experiment with stations. Even if I don't make a QSO on a given pass, it is still fun to try different things.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 4:32 PM Robert Switzer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
AMSAT explicitly encourages grid chasing with it's new award system.
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019, 11:30:09 AM EST, Jerry Buxton <n0jy@amsat.org> wrote:
Not to deter grid chasing and awards, does every FM bird have to be that way? I do miss my start with "portable stuff" a decade or so ago, and just having quick QSOs with new contacts on SO-50 from the pizzeria parking lot when I visited Mom and Dad...
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 2/19/2019 21:02, Bob wrote:
I can tell you from personal experience as a satellite mentor, giving presentations which always excite potential new satellite users, then having them go into the field to experience the bedlam of a FM Satellite, that they too often become discouraged and give up. Easysat is a very deceptive name, especially on weekends.
73, Bob, WB4SON _______________________________________________
Couldn't agree more with Patrick. I have found the FM birds are most crowded on the weekends especially when someone has announced a rove and everybody is chasing those rare grids. Weekday passes are not so crowded and evenings are even better. In fact, on last night's pass of AO-92 at 8:47 PM PST, Kristy KB6TLY, was the only person I heard. 73, Bob N6REK
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2019 9:25 AM To: AMSAT amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] FM Birds, New Grids, and Chaos
Hi!
AMSAT may encourage this sort of operating, but let's not forget ARRL with its VUCC award, and the VUCC/r for those going out and working from other places - and there may be others, too. N8HM is correct about how AMSAT's Rover Award encourages the use of linear transponders, but not as many are on those passes. Same with using packet or other non-FM modes.
A single-channel satellite will have crowds much of the time. Compared to the days of AO-51 and AO-27 with their 70cm downlinks, I think AO-91 and AO-92 with their 2m downlinks have brought out larger crowds. Unless you're on in the middle of the night, or operating in another part of the world with a small ham population (I saw that in Australia a few years ago), it may be unrealistic to expect to do much more than quick QSOs on FM satellites. New operators are regularly showing up on the FM passes.
It is fun to regularly hear DX stations on AO-91 and AO-92 passes over the continental USA, something we really didn't have as much when SO-50 was the only FM satellite we had for a while. Is AMSAT a victim of its successes with AO-91 and AO-92? Maybe. I'd rather be in the current situation than a few years ago, when we only had SO-50, AO-7 and FO-29 (plus the ISS digipeater) as our amateur satellite lineup.
I like chasing grids from home, enjoy going out and working from wherever I happen to be, and I do a fair bit of promoting AMSAT and satellite operating at events. Crowds understand that the single-channel FM satellites are going to be busy. They also enjoy listening to those passes on their own radios during the demonstrations - the best way to show how easy it is to hear AO-91 and AO-92 downlinks, and previously AO-85. Most in the crowds also understand there are some times where it would be easier to get through than other times. And there's always the opportunities to experiment with stations. Even if I don't make a QSO on a given pass, it is still fun to try different things.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Wed, Feb 20, 2019 at 4:32 PM Robert Switzer via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
AMSAT explicitly encourages grid chasing with it's new award system.
On Wednesday, February 20, 2019, 11:30:09 AM EST, Jerry Buxton <n0jy@amsat.org> wrote:
Not to deter grid chasing and awards, does every FM bird have to be that way? I do miss my start with "portable stuff" a decade or so ago, and just having quick QSOs with new contacts on SO-50 from the pizzeria parking lot when I visited Mom and Dad...
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 2/19/2019 21:02, Bob wrote:
I can tell you from personal experience as a satellite mentor, giving presentations which always excite potential new satellite users, then having them go into the field to experience the bedlam of a FM Satellite, that they too often become discouraged and give up. Easysat is a very deceptive name, especially on weekends.
73, Bob, WB4SON _______________________________________________
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Late night AO-92 pass last week and we had a local round table. Three of us in a 50 mile triangle. We could have visited on 75 meters but then I would have had to scrape my boots afterwards. More than once last year when I couldn't sleep, I would check out a night time pass and ended up visiting with NA2AA until the bird flew away...all by ourselves.
What irks me is the "Hello Fred, Haven't talked to you since breakfast!" stuff when there are multiple rovers standing out in the cold on grid lines, maybe a hundred or so miles away from home, freezing their butt off. But I gave up on a perfect world when my first kid was born!
John AE5B (The Old Coot)
On 2/20/2019 11:40 AM, Bob Keating wrote:
Couldn't agree more with Patrick. I have found the FM birds are most crowded on the weekends especially when someone has announced a rove and everybody is chasing those rare grids. Weekday passes are not so crowded and evenings are even better. In fact, on last night's pass of AO-92 at 8:47 PM PST, Kristy KB6TLY, was the only person I heard. 73, Bob N6REK
You might look for a pass that is way east of you over the ocean. Fewer people on at that time. Also coming up from the south. There are operators in South America that you might reach. But anyway, the less land in the visibility circle of the satellite, the less busy it will be.
Good luck and 73!
Burns WB1FJ.
On Sat, Feb 16, 2019 at 10:48 PM Les Rayburn les@highnoonfilm.com wrote:
Since getting back into satellites a few months ago, I set my first goal to be completing VUCC. 76 grids confirmed, and hoping to possibly finish up this week.
I’m meeting with the VUCC card checker this week to sign off on my 2 Meter VUCC. That took over five years, since I’m limited to a single 6 element Yagi in the attic. At least half of those contacts came via WJST meteor scatter.
Thought it would be nice to get both 2 Meter and Satellite at the same time.
Most of my contacts have come on the linear birds, with over 2/3 of them on FO-29. I realize that there is a lot more activity and grid activation on the FM birds—so I need to spend more time there.
But the chaos of that type of operation just doesn’t appeal to me. Plus the noise levels in the attic make it difficult for me to hear the FM birds very well. SO-50 comes in “pretty well” but the AO birds are often covered with noise and difficult to hear.
Any tips to improve my success rate on FM? Other than completely avoiding weekend operation! :-)
73,
Les Rayburn, N1LF Maylene, AL EM63nf AMSAT #38965, ARRL Life Member, CVHS Life Member, SVHF Member
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (12)
-
AE5B -
Bob -
Bob Keating -
Burns Fisher -
Jerry Buxton -
John Brier -
k6vug＠sbcglobal.net -
Les Rayburn -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Paul Stoetzer -
Robert Switzer -
saguaroastro