There is only ONE WAY to stop the mess on AO51. Turn it off and let Drew turn it on when he wants to make a sked with someone . He caused me to miss a grid contact Sunday when he changed the TX freq in the middle of a pass . He was wrong in doing that. AO51 is out of control. If an operator needs to be contacted by email and have proper operation explaned to them ,let KO4MA do it. We can type these usless messages here till we all get blisters on our fingers and it will not make any difference. Alot of the people who are causing the mess dont even use the Amsat BB . WA4HFN Damon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Kolakowski" Rogerkola@aol.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 3:03:02 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: -={Echo Madness}=-
Not directed at the authors, but in listening to the recording of that pass, I think it could have easily done without the multiple CQ's along with the whistling and blowing into the mike...eliminate those bad habits first and then working on not interrupting quick, 4 transmission exchanges and trying to keep transmissions short would result in a much less chaotic atmosphere, even without running full duplex.
Roger WA1KAT
Zachary Beougher wrote:
Hello Kevin and group,
Back to the point, please let me know if you think I need any correcting, I would rather help not hinder. I really enjoy this HOBBY, but I dont know if there is a solution...
At this stage in the game, there really is no solution per say. When there is 30-40 guys on ONE frequency trying to make QSOs, what else can we expect?
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Personally, if anyone wants to control who uses a satellite, then make the satellite digital and give each participant a digital code (which can be filtered later). Include a list of acceptable usage with it. If that person violates the acceptable usage then revoke his digital code and he is gone forever. Hmmmmm.... satellite moderation, just like what was tried here on the -bb a few years back when flames and flame throwers got a little out of hand. We received rules of use and if you violate them, you were banned from the -bb.
I can also remember many years ago in so-35, uo-14 days, there was a ham that used to have conversations with his xyl on many of the passes. Turned out.... he was in South America working as a missionary and he thought he was talking on a really quiet simplex frequency (the satellite uplink). After days and days of listening, we finally caught a call sign. I wrote him a letter and explained that we were all listening to the two of them and if he could QSY. Not a problem, within a week he was gone and in about another week, he had written me saying he did not know he was interfering with the satellite.
There really is no solution to a satellite that uses a particular uplink frequency to keep those that use the simplex frequency or are actually trying to make a satellite contact and use poor operating practices. After all, when P5/4L4FN was operating from North Korea, there were many that made dozens of HF SSB contacts with him when one was enough to give them the rarest of all DX. There were also many pirates jamming the frequencies and a real mess. I know this first hand as I am the QSL manager.
Satellites are no different from rare DX, everyone wants a piece of it and they want it now. As we are trying to get more and more hams interested in the satellites, we are going to simply have more trying to use the same space. One solution is for the experienced satellite operators to move from the single channel FM satellites over to the SSB birds.
73...bruce
Hi Bruce!
There really is no solution to a satellite that uses a particular uplink frequency to keep those that use the simplex frequency or are actually trying to make a satellite contact and use poor operating practices.
<snip>
Satellites are no different from rare DX, everyone wants a piece of it and they want it now. As we are trying to get more and more hams interested in the satellites, we are going to simply have more trying to use the same space. One solution is for the experienced satellite operators to move from the single channel FM satellites over to the SSB birds.
I generally agree with you on these points, but not completely on the point that experienced operators should move off the FM birds to the SSB birds. If all the experienced operators move off the FM birds, who would be left to help the inexperienced operators?
I've heard more activity on the SSB birds lately, probably due to ND9M/MM sailing around and working those passes along with the FM passes. The increased SSB activity helped me on Saturday at the hamfest in Tucson AZ followed by my post-hamfest drive through DM52/DM53 on my way home. Three of the 4 demonstration passes at the hamfest were in SSB (2 on AO-7, one on VO-52). Later in the day, there were active FO-29 passes where I was able to make 9 QSOs on the first pass (including ND9M/MM), and 5 more on the later pass to the west.
Going to a comment by WA4HFN yesterday... If there was a problem on AO-51 that required the immediate attention from a command station, by all means do what is necessary to keep the satellite in good condition. Nobody should find fault with that. From the recording posted on K8YSE's web site of the Sunday afternoon AO-51 pass in question:
http://www.papays.com/sat/AO-51_27Mar2011_221636z.mp3
along with posts on here since then, it is clear that was not the case. This is exactly like the situation when K5D was on the satellites from Desecheo a couple of years ago, and the posted threat by KO4MA to shut down one of the AO-51 repeaters due to what Drew called at the time "extreme poor operating":
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2009-February/017442.html
Since AO-51 operates on a schedule, AMSAT should keep to the schedule. It may not be pleasant to hear at times, but we are dealing with a single-channel satellite (or, at times, a two-channel satellite). There are problems from time to time, whether it is an inexperienced operator, someone using an uplink as a private simplex channel or frequency for an EchoLink/IRLP node, or whatever. We deal with this on HF, we can deal with it on the satellites.
If there is a last-minute change needed in order to protect the satellite, we will understand. If a change in the schedule is needed for some reason, do what's been done in the past - publish notice of the upcoming change as is normally done and go from there. If the last-minute change is done because someone is frustrated with what is being heard, or so someone can try to work a rare station or a rare grid, that is wrong. By the way, the pass after the uplink change didn't sound very different than before the change, except for a few seconds when Drew announced the change and everyone had to change their uplink frequency.
73.
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
On 3/30/2011 2:12 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
If the last-minute change is done because someone is frustrated with what is being heard, or so someone can try to work a rare station or a rare grid, that is wrong.
Let me clear something up here. I didn't change the frequency so I could work Jim or anyone else, otherwise I'd have called him after the frequency change. I worked Jim on the next FO-29 pass. I seriously resent the implication that I intervened out of personal greed, especially from you Patrick.
I changed the frequency for a number of reasons. There were multiple stations QRMing the uplink with whistles, blowing in the mike, and CQs. A lot of this was before John's recording started. If you listen to the recording, no QSOs were being made, no calls getting through, NOTHING was working. Changing the frequency and asking for a little courtesy was an attempt to make things at least somewhat useful for the remainder of that pass. Considering a few QSOs were made afterwards, I consider it at least a partial success. Again, you'll notice I wasn't among them. I'm sorry a few of you missed Jim, but you likely would have anyways, as he had already decided to QRT because of the bedlam, until I changed the uplink.
For what it's worth, you and Damon are the only two who've objected. At least you were moderately polite about it. Both of the "DX" stations on that pass were understanding and did not object to my action in the emails exchanged afterwards. Several others have written in support, and I only wish more would have done so publicly.
I take input from everyone, and try to be out in the public as much as possible. Take a look back at the level of interaction from the previous few VP Ops and ask if yourself why they stayed the hell away from the users. So your objection is noted, but in the end, I alone am responsible for the operation of AO-51 and our other satellites. I will continue to act in the satellite and AMSAT's best interest, as charged by the President and Board of Directors of AMSAT, in the manner I best see fit, until removed or replaced. Consider we already have two open VP positions, an open BOD alternate, and a highly complex and finicky, aging satellite, before you decide to run me out of town on a rail.
A lot of the users of this satellite have NO idea the hard work it takes to keep AO-51 running. I have volunteered hundreds, perhaps thousands of hours over the past several years, in order to make AO-51 available as often, and in as many modes as possible. I've left work early, went in late, postponed personal vacations, missed family events, and spent thousands of dollars to upgrade my station, in order to be able to keep it in service so we can download and process telemetry, reload code, keep the repeater running, and promote AMSAT. Mark, Kevin, and Gould have done the same. While you guys bust tail to get on the air to work a new grid, we are there on the digital downlink trying to keep AO-51 alive, hopefully long enough to see it's replacement on orbit. I'm writing schedules for SO-67 and AO-51, emailing answers to users who've asked questions, and trying to find time to spend with my family. So before you get on the -bb and take potshots at us, whine, piss and moan, you better think of the alternative scenario without a few command stations who give a damn, or without a VP Ops. It isn't all fun and games and chasing grids for us.
Disgusted, Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA AMSAT-NA VP Operations
Drew,
Let me clear something up here. I didn't change the frequency so I could work Jim or anyone else, otherwise I'd have called him after the frequency change. I worked Jim on the next FO-29 pass. I seriously resent the implication that I intervened out of personal greed, especially from you Patrick.
You didn't call him right after making the frequency change, but you did call him at least once after the change ( I heard you around 8:18 in K8YSE's recording). Had you not made even that call for Jim, and waited for that FO-29 pass or some other later pass, then I probably wouldn't have posted anything on this topic.
For what it's worth, you and Damon are the only two who've objected. At least you were moderately polite about it. Both of the "DX" stations on that pass were understanding and did not object to my action in the emails exchanged afterwards. Several others have written in support, and I only wish more would have done so publicly.
"Moderately polite"? How about just saying "polite"?
You should know me by now. We have had differences of opinions on other topics in the past, even here on the -BB. That happens. We have exchanged our opinions, and it has been done in a calm and respectful manner. I did not call you any names, I took issue with a decision you made during that pass, in at least one of your AMSAT positions.
If what you did on Sunday was something you've done in the past, and not the first time you did that, maybe that would have been something we could expect in those situations. If my opinion is in the minority, so be it. More often than not, I am in agreement with you and whatever actions you take related to AO-51, or AMSAT in general. This time, I disagreed with your decision, and was willing to put my name to my opinion publicly.
I take input from everyone, and try to be out in the public as much as possible. Take a look back at the level of interaction from the previous few VP Ops and ask if yourself why they stayed the hell away from the users. So your objection is noted, but in the end, I alone am responsible for the operation of AO-51 and our other satellites. I will continue to act in the satellite and AMSAT's best interest, as charged by the President and Board of Directors of AMSAT, in the manner I best see fit, until removed or replaced. Consider we already have two open VP positions, an open BOD alternate, and a highly complex and finicky, aging satellite, before you decide to run me out of town on a rail.
Here you go again. When did I say or imply I wanted to run you out of town on a rail? We have had our differences, but I've never said that you should not be in the many AMSAT positions you currently hold. Once again, we don't have to share the same opinion on everything.
A lot of the users of this satellite have NO idea the hard work it takes to keep AO-51 running. I have volunteered hundreds, perhaps thousands of hours over the past several years, in order to make AO-51 available as often, and in as many modes as possible. I've left work early, went in late, postponed personal vacations, missed family events, and spent thousands of dollars to upgrade my station, in order to be able to keep it in service so we can download and process telemetry, reload code, keep the repeater running, and promote AMSAT. Mark, Kevin, and Gould have done the same. While you guys bust tail to get on the air to work a new grid, we are there on the digital downlink trying to keep AO-51 alive, hopefully long enough to see it's replacement on orbit. I'm writing schedules for SO-67 and AO-51, emailing answers to users who've asked questions, and trying to find time to spend with my family. So before you get on the -bb and take potshots at us, whine, piss and moan, you better think of the alternative scenario without a few command stations who give a damn, or without a VP Ops. It isn't all fun and games and chasing grids for us.
You are correct, in that many of the users don't know what is involved with keeping AO-51 on the air. I am not in that group. I know very well that it takes a lot of time and effort. I had been in the Operations Group previously, helping to answer questions that came in from users and help with preparing the AO-51 schedules. When I left that group a couple of years ago, that was when I started going out to more hamfests and other events on behalf of AMSAT. I continue to do that, and also try to do my part to support the organization financially (hoping to hear the successor to AO-51 on the air, and other satellites, in the future).
I appreciate the hard work you do, and for putting yourself out here on the -BB. I disagree with what you did on Sunday, but that doesn't change my appreciation for what you do on behalf of AMSAT.
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
Several others have written in support, and I only wish more would have done so publicly.
I'll just say that I was one of the several others that wrote Drew in support. I think there's sometimes a fine balance between satellite ease-of-use and avoiding congestion. Drew took action to shift the balance away from congestion, and I appreciate his efforts in this regard.
73 de Dave KB5WIA / CM88
Several others have written in support, and I only wish more would have done so publicly.
I wasn't going to reply to this thread when it started because I feel quite strongly about the subject and didn't want to say something I would later regret. However as I feel I need to show my support for Drew's decision, here goes.
First of all I think Drew was right to do what he did, over here in Europe things are pretty much the same, in fact I have heard worse than the recording posted here earlier in the week. I have experienced the same frustration that I imagine Drew did when he had others deliberately stomp all over him, it's not nice, especially when it's the same stations day in and day out.
While I dont always agree with Drew's attitude to people here on -bb, on this occasion I do support him in what he did - and appreciate both his efforts in looking after the sat and those of the other command stations (and of course others behind the scenes who dont always get a mention)
There has been a lot of talk about what can't be done to rectify the situation.. we need to have a more positive approach to this and look at what can be done.
Our license states that it is an offence to cause interference - If it is intentional or not, it is interference - some people have compared it to a HF pileup, yes there is that side to it, but that doesn't mean we cant do something about those regular users who continually make a nuisance of themselves by stomping all over other stations, be it deliberate or not - it is interference. If you cant make a contact on the sat without regularly causing interference, then it's either time to look at asking for help with your station setup and operating practices or consider another aspect of the hobby.
The ham radio governing bodies (ARRL, RSGB etc) are perhaps in a better position to offer assistance to contact those who don't hang out on here or have contact details on QRZ.com etc.
For those people who choose to ignore the advise and continue to cause interference by stomping all over users then perhaps if a few complaints were lodged with the licensing authority it may help.
I know it won't cure the problem totally but wouldn't it help? - those who are that way inclined will think twice before making a total nuisance of themselves on the air, and those that choose to ignore the thought of having their license revoked may well just get a letter forwarded to them by their national Amsat organisation via the ARRL or RSGB etc, or repeat offenders from the licensing authority.
To reiterate, i'm not talking about the new operators, we were all new once. I'm talking about the regular offenders who are just plain rude and cant wait their turn, or greedy and think it is their right to have X amount of contacts per pass no matter how much interference they cause.
Just some suggestions, it may take a little time and effort but also it may well pay off in the long run.
Here in Europe there are several stations who pass after pass just stomp all over other users and make AO-51 in particular not a nice place to be.
I would certainly never consider using AO-51 as a satellite to do a demo on to beginners when these guys are around.
However, the last few days on AO-51 have been a pleasure to work since the switch and if it continues like this (doubtful) then a demo on AO-51 would most definitley be a possibility.
Remember, the use of AO-51 is a privilege, not a right. Treat it, and it's users with the respect it/they deserve.
Ok, rant over.
Keep up the good work Drew, Mark, Gould and all the team at Amsat-NA
73
Pete 2i0VAX
Okay, I'll go public as well. I sent Clint a private email. I disagree with what Drew did. I appreciate he has a truly thankless job. I have nothing but respect for him. The amount of time and energy it takes to do the many good things he does for us is huge. I know I could not do it, but that does not mean I always agree. Drew is a grown up and I like to think I am a grown up so we can disagree and not have any animosity towards each other.
AO-51 is a zoo at times, so is 20 meters during contests. It is the nature of the beast. As time goes on people will figure out how to make contacts, whether it is change birds, change times, or change tactics. I believe limiting access is a bad idea.
I'm not wanting to start a flame war, just wanting to state there is another side to the argument, and there are a few of us on that side.
73, Joe kk0sd
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of P.H. Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:30 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: -={Echo Madness}=-
Several others have written in support, and I only wish more would have done so publicly.
I wasn't going to reply to this thread when it started because I feel quite strongly about the subject and didn't want to say something I would later regret. However as I feel I need to show my support for Drew's decision, here goes.
First of all I think Drew was right to do what he did, over here in Europe things are pretty much the same, in fact I have heard worse than the recording posted here earlier in the week. I have experienced the same frustration that I imagine Drew did when he had others deliberately stomp all over him, it's not nice, especially when it's the same stations day in and day out.
While I dont always agree with Drew's attitude to people here on -bb, on this occasion I do support him in what he did - and appreciate both his efforts in looking after the sat and those of the other command stations (and of course others behind the scenes who dont always get a mention)
There has been a lot of talk about what can't be done to rectify the situation.. we need to have a more positive approach to this and look at what can be done.
Our license states that it is an offence to cause interference - If it is intentional or not, it is interference - some people have compared it to a HF pileup, yes there is that side to it, but that doesn't mean we cant do something about those regular users who continually make a nuisance of themselves by stomping all over other stations, be it deliberate or not - it is interference. If you cant make a contact on the sat without regularly causing interference, then it's either time to look at asking for help with your station setup and operating practices or consider another aspect of the hobby.
The ham radio governing bodies (ARRL, RSGB etc) are perhaps in a better position to offer assistance to contact those who don't hang out on here or have contact details on QRZ.com etc.
For those people who choose to ignore the advise and continue to cause interference by stomping all over users then perhaps if a few complaints were lodged with the licensing authority it may help.
I know it won't cure the problem totally but wouldn't it help? - those who are that way inclined will think twice before making a total nuisance of themselves on the air, and those that choose to ignore the thought of having their license revoked may well just get a letter forwarded to them by their national Amsat organisation via the ARRL or RSGB etc, or repeat offenders from the licensing authority.
To reiterate, i'm not talking about the new operators, we were all new once. I'm talking about the regular offenders who are just plain rude and cant wait their turn, or greedy and think it is their right to have X amount of contacts per pass no matter how much interference they cause.
Just some suggestions, it may take a little time and effort but also it may well pay off in the long run.
Here in Europe there are several stations who pass after pass just stomp all over other users and make AO-51 in particular not a nice place to be.
I would certainly never consider using AO-51 as a satellite to do a demo on to beginners when these guys are around.
However, the last few days on AO-51 have been a pleasure to work since the switch and if it continues like this (doubtful) then a demo on AO-51 would most definitley be a possibility.
Remember, the use of AO-51 is a privilege, not a right. Treat it, and it's users with the respect it/they deserve.
Ok, rant over.
Keep up the good work Drew, Mark, Gould and all the team at Amsat-NA
73
Pete 2i0VAX _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
That's fine Joe. I don't expect everyone to walk in lockstep. What I do expect is to not be accused, as others have, of impropriety within what I do for AMSAT. That type of accusation will elicit an aggressive, overwhelming defense every time.
73, Drew KO4MA
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 31, 2011, at 7:01 AM, "Gary "Joe" Mayfield" gary_mayfield@hotmail.com wrote:
Okay, I'll go public as well. I sent Clint a private email. I disagree with what Drew did. I appreciate he has a truly thankless job. I have nothing but respect for him. The amount of time and energy it takes to do the many good things he does for us is huge. I know I could not do it, but that does not mean I always agree. Drew is a grown up and I like to think I am a grown up so we can disagree and not have any animosity towards each other.
AO-51 is a zoo at times, so is 20 meters during contests. It is the nature of the beast. As time goes on people will figure out how to make contacts, whether it is change birds, change times, or change tactics. I believe limiting access is a bad idea.
I'm not wanting to start a flame war, just wanting to state there is another side to the argument, and there are a few of us on that side.
73, Joe kk0sd
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of P.H. Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2011 4:30 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: -={Echo Madness}=-
Several others have written in support, and I only wish more would have done so publicly.
I wasn't going to reply to this thread when it started because I feel quite strongly about the subject and didn't want to say something I would later regret. However as I feel I need to show my support for Drew's decision, here goes.
First of all I think Drew was right to do what he did, over here in Europe things are pretty much the same, in fact I have heard worse than the recording posted here earlier in the week. I have experienced the same frustration that I imagine Drew did when he had others deliberately stomp all over him, it's not nice, especially when it's the same stations day in and day out.
While I dont always agree with Drew's attitude to people here on -bb, on this occasion I do support him in what he did - and appreciate both his efforts in looking after the sat and those of the other command stations (and of course others behind the scenes who dont always get a mention)
There has been a lot of talk about what can't be done to rectify the situation.. we need to have a more positive approach to this and look at what can be done.
Our license states that it is an offence to cause interference - If it is intentional or not, it is interference - some people have compared it to a HF pileup, yes there is that side to it, but that doesn't mean we cant do something about those regular users who continually make a nuisance of themselves by stomping all over other stations, be it deliberate or not - it is interference. If you cant make a contact on the sat without regularly causing interference, then it's either time to look at asking for help with your station setup and operating practices or consider another aspect of the hobby.
The ham radio governing bodies (ARRL, RSGB etc) are perhaps in a better position to offer assistance to contact those who don't hang out on here or have contact details on QRZ.com etc.
For those people who choose to ignore the advise and continue to cause interference by stomping all over users then perhaps if a few complaints were lodged with the licensing authority it may help.
I know it won't cure the problem totally but wouldn't it help? - those who are that way inclined will think twice before making a total nuisance of themselves on the air, and those that choose to ignore the thought of having their license revoked may well just get a letter forwarded to them by their national Amsat organisation via the ARRL or RSGB etc, or repeat offenders from the licensing authority.
To reiterate, i'm not talking about the new operators, we were all new once. I'm talking about the regular offenders who are just plain rude and cant wait their turn, or greedy and think it is their right to have X amount of contacts per pass no matter how much interference they cause.
Just some suggestions, it may take a little time and effort but also it may well pay off in the long run.
Here in Europe there are several stations who pass after pass just stomp all over other users and make AO-51 in particular not a nice place to be.
I would certainly never consider using AO-51 as a satellite to do a demo on to beginners when these guys are around.
However, the last few days on AO-51 have been a pleasure to work since the switch and if it continues like this (doubtful) then a demo on AO-51 would most definitley be a possibility.
Remember, the use of AO-51 is a privilege, not a right. Treat it, and it's users with the respect it/they deserve.
Ok, rant over.
Keep up the good work Drew, Mark, Gould and all the team at Amsat-NA
73
Pete 2i0VAX _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Unlike 20 meters, where everyone is transmitting on their OWN equipment, AO-51 is a "repeater" in the sky, owned & controlled by AMSAT, and the rights to use of which can be withdrawn or restricted at any time. Just like the owner/control operator(s) of a terrestrial repeater, Drew (and every other control op) has the absolute right to shut down/reprogram the satellite for ANY reason he deems fit. Further, AMSAT has the right to ban anyone from using the satellite, under penalty of law, just as a repeater owner can control who may use his repeater or any of its features.
If someone was incessantly whistling, causing interference by keying up dead carriers over other stations without ID'ing, or pulling other similar shenanigans on any of the terrestrial repeaters that I am a control op for, I would have shut it down...
George, KA3HSW
----- Original Message ----
From: "Gary "Joe" Mayfield" gary_mayfield@hotmail.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 7:01:50 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: -={Echo Madness}=-
[snip]
AO-51 is a zoo at times, so is 20 meters during contests. It is the nature of the beast. As time goes on people will figure out how to make contacts, whether it is change birds, change times, or change tactics. I believe limiting access is a bad idea.
[snip]
Hi Pete and the -bb, I can recognize your description about some of the passes - not all - here over Europe. K5OE also tells the story about his operating here some years ago :-)
I also support Drews action - but some may say that I am biased since I am a member of the Operating Committee for AO-51.
However the only/best way to improve things is to make direct contact with the offenders of good operating practice. Most often we can find their e-mail addresses on qrz.com. I have done that many times - most often with a good result.
I have a text "Considerate Operating Practice.." in several languages which I can send to those of you who want to try yourself.
73 OZ1MY/Ib
-----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] På vegne af P.H. Sendt: 31. marts 2011 11:30 Til: amsat-bb@amsat.org Emne: [amsat-bb] Re: -={Echo Madness}=-
Several others have written in support, and I only wish more would have done so publicly.
I wasn't going to reply to this thread when it started because I feel quite strongly about the subject and didn't want to say something I would later regret. However as I feel I need to show my support for Drew's decision, here goes.
First of all I think Drew was right to do what he did, over here in Europe things are pretty much the same, in fact I have heard worse than the recording posted here earlier in the week. I have experienced the same frustration that I imagine Drew did when he had others deliberately stomp all over him, it's not nice, especially when it's the same stations day in and day out.
While I dont always agree with Drew's attitude to people here on -bb, on this occasion I do support him in what he did - and appreciate both his efforts in looking after the sat and those of the other command stations (and of course others behind the scenes who dont always get a mention)
There has been a lot of talk about what can't be done to rectify the situation.. we need to have a more positive approach to this and look at what can be done.
Our license states that it is an offence to cause interference - If it is intentional or not, it is interference - some people have compared it to a HF pileup, yes there is that side to it, but that doesn't mean we cant do something about those regular users who continually make a nuisance of themselves by stomping all over other stations, be it deliberate or not - it is interference. If you cant make a contact on the sat without regularly causing interference, then it's either time to look at asking for help with your station setup and operating practices or consider another aspect of the hobby.
The ham radio governing bodies (ARRL, RSGB etc) are perhaps in a better position to offer assistance to contact those who don't hang out on here or have contact details on QRZ.com etc.
For those people who choose to ignore the advise and continue to cause interference by stomping all over users then perhaps if a few complaints were lodged with the licensing authority it may help.
I know it won't cure the problem totally but wouldn't it help? - those who are that way inclined will think twice before making a total nuisance of themselves on the air, and those that choose to ignore the thought of having their license revoked may well just get a letter forwarded to them by their national Amsat organisation via the ARRL or RSGB etc, or repeat offenders from the licensing authority.
To reiterate, i'm not talking about the new operators, we were all new once. I'm talking about the regular offenders who are just plain rude and cant wait their turn, or greedy and think it is their right to have X amount of contacts per pass no matter how much interference they cause.
Just some suggestions, it may take a little time and effort but also it may well pay off in the long run.
Here in Europe there are several stations who pass after pass just stomp all over other users and make AO-51 in particular not a nice place to be.
I would certainly never consider using AO-51 as a satellite to do a demo on to beginners when these guys are around.
However, the last few days on AO-51 have been a pleasure to work since the switch and if it continues like this (doubtful) then a demo on AO-51 would most definitley be a possibility.
Remember, the use of AO-51 is a privilege, not a right. Treat it, and it's users with the respect it/they deserve.
Ok, rant over.
Keep up the good work Drew, Mark, Gould and all the team at Amsat-NA
73
Pete 2i0VAX _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
At 08:34 AM 4/1/2011, Ib Christoffersen wrote:
However the only/best way to improve things is to make direct contact with the offenders of good operating practice. Most often we can find their e-mail addresses on qrz.com. I have done that many times - most often with a good result.
My experience here is that contacting people who cause problems and pointing them in the right direction is highly likely to succeed. In this part of the world, almost all ham originated QRM is accidental, caused by poor station setup or operating practices, and these people generally appreciate someone taking time out to give them some pointers.
I have a text "Considerate Operating Practice.." in several languages which I can send to those of you who want to try yourself.
Good idea. I have written similar, suited to the generally lighter traffic in this part of the world (e.g. on late night passes, a ragchew with short overs of 15 seconds or less and 5 - 10 second breaks between overs can _help_ people find the satellite, so they can pick the downlink our from the noise!). It should still be online at http://vkradio.com/satiquette.html .
73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
participants (10)
-
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Bruce -
David Palmer -
Gary "Joe" Mayfield -
George Henry -
Ib Christoffersen -
P.H. -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Tony Langdon -
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