GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all." The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to build the transponders themselves. The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company. Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies." Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a linear transponder with an AGC etc. In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites. Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you. But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes. QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21 An: Joe Leikhim [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Mattias,
Thanks for having corrected the matter which may have created wrong perceptions.
Thanks to AMSAT DL, QARS and the sponsors who made such a great Radio Amateur bird possible, again congratulations for that.
That said I wish to confirm/comment your last paragraph, as follows:
In the Indian Ocean FR (mainly Reunion Island and 3B* Mauritius) we are only a few Hams. With HF not going through these days the hobby was somehow left on the side by some and QO-100 has really revived the activities.
To share my personal case I was able to experiment microwave (2.4/10GHz) and modes such as ATV for the first time in my Ham life (licensed since 1977) as there was no-one around to be able to contact on these bands and modes. Now building a 3m dish experiment different types of feeds etc.. (some other local guys also and even students).
In a nutshell a new world (or at least a half one) made available to us, many experimentations and learnings. I feel like again being 16 (age when I got my licence) as building antennas again, feeds, assembly of various components to build the QO-100 station.
I just hope the ones not in coverage presently will get a in a Ham GEO coverage soon and hopefully will fully understand what it means really.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all." The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to build the transponders themselves. The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company. Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies." Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a linear transponder with an AGC etc. In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites. Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you. But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes. QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21 An: Joe Leikhim [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dear All,
Forgot to say a major positive about QO-100 which is the cost of setting up a Ground Station for narrow the band transponder, assuming that the PC is already available and that one use a Tx/Rx such as the Pluto or Lime SDR,s a few Chinese WiFi booster, a PLL LNB and a 80cm dish, the total cost is less than US$ 400.
This is really attractive to students and for all Ham’s with modest means compared with buying any commercially available transceiver (or may be 2 actually) for satellite operations, thus cost of entry in QO-100 is really affordable to newbies, more these guys may immediately jump in real Dx QSO’s and learn the trade, this surely motivate them for further experimentation. Particularly in remote Islands like us in that part of the globe.
My 1 cent additional input to the subject.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Jean Marc Momple [email protected] wrote:
Mattias,
Thanks for having corrected the matter which may have created wrong perceptions.
Thanks to AMSAT DL, QARS and the sponsors who made such a great Radio Amateur bird possible, again congratulations for that.
That said I wish to confirm/comment your last paragraph, as follows:
In the Indian Ocean FR (mainly Reunion Island and 3B* Mauritius) we are only a few Hams. With HF not going through these days the hobby was somehow left on the side by some and QO-100 has really revived the activities.
To share my personal case I was able to experiment microwave (2.4/10GHz) and modes such as ATV for the first time in my Ham life (licensed since 1977) as there was no-one around to be able to contact on these bands and modes. Now building a 3m dish experiment different types of feeds etc.. (some other local guys also and even students).
In a nutshell a new world (or at least a half one) made available to us, many experimentations and learnings. I feel like again being 16 (age when I got my licence) as building antennas again, feeds, assembly of various components to build the QO-100 station.
I just hope the ones not in coverage presently will get a in a Ham GEO coverage soon and hopefully will fully understand what it means really.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all." The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to build the transponders themselves. The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company. Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies." Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a linear transponder with an AGC etc. In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites. Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you. But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes. QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21 An: Joe Leikhim [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Jean-Marc,
Very good point.
Actually if you use a Pluto you can use it also with a software based free solution to receive the WB Transponder without additional cost.
To receive the WB Transponder I prefer the Minitiouner kits from REF or BATC for about 100 Euros which is still a very cost effective solution.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
Originalnachricht Von: Jean Marc Momple Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2020 17:38 An: Matthias Bopp Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Dear All,
Forgot to say a major positive about QO-100 which is the cost of setting up a Ground Station for narrow the band transponder, assuming that the PC is already available and that one use a Tx/Rx such as the Pluto or Lime SDR,s a few Chinese WiFi booster, a PLL LNB and a 80cm dish, the total cost is less than US$ 400.
This is really attractive to students and for all Ham’s with modest means compared with buying any commercially available transceiver (or may be 2 actually) for satellite operations, thus cost of entry in QO-100 is really affordable to newbies, more these guys may immediately jump in real Dx QSO’s and learn the trade, this surely motivate them for further experimentation. Particularly in remote Islands like us in that part of the globe.
My 1 cent additional input to the subject.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Jean Marc Momple [email protected] wrote:
Mattias,
Thanks for having corrected the matter which may have created wrong perceptions.
Thanks to AMSAT DL, QARS and the sponsors who made such a great Radio Amateur bird possible, again congratulations for that.
That said I wish to confirm/comment your last paragraph, as follows:
In the Indian Ocean FR (mainly Reunion Island and 3B* Mauritius) we are only a few Hams. With HF not going through these days the hobby was somehow left on the side by some and QO-100 has really revived the activities.
To share my personal case I was able to experiment microwave (2.4/10GHz) and modes such as ATV for the first time in my Ham life (licensed since 1977) as there was no-one around to be able to contact on these bands and modes. Now building a 3m dish experiment different types of feeds etc.. (some other local guys also and even students).
In a nutshell a new world (or at least a half one) made available to us, many experimentations and learnings. I feel like again being 16 (age when I got my licence) as building antennas again, feeds, assembly of various components to build the QO-100 station.
I just hope the ones not in coverage presently will get a in a Ham GEO coverage soon and hopefully will fully understand what it means really.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all." The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to build the transponders themselves. The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company. Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies." Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a linear transponder with an AGC etc. In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites. Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you. But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes. QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21 An: Joe Leikhim [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Mathias,
Yes, the Minitiouner is really great for ATV, unfortunately mine is kaput due to an accidental short circuit cause by my dog (hi!) and therefore less active on ATV these days. I need to order another one but waiting for commercial opening of the airways to Europe.
I prefer the Lime as the Pluto drift is annoying (but manageable), anyway my Pluto also kaput due to same incident stated above so using the Lime.
All these relatively cheap hardware and a computer makes it so easy and open such great experiments. As a matter of fact with a RTL SDR costing only US$24 I uploaded more than a million of Telemetry frames to various organisations such as Satnogs, Funcube, AMSAT (Foxtelem), Universities, even to Harbin for the Lunar bird, etc.
Also to share, made many experiment with LNB’s for QO-100, modified quite a few LNB’s, tested many from the most expensive such as the Bullseye, Octagon, to the cheapest Chinese PLL (at US$ 3), all work fine on QO-100 with SDR Console (thanks to Simon Brown G4ELI) particularly with the GEO sync.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 21, 2020, at 7:58 PM, Matthias Bopp [email protected] wrote:
Hi Jean-Marc,
Very good point.
Actually if you use a Pluto you can use it also with a software based free solution to receive the WB Transponder without additional cost.
To receive the WB Transponder I prefer the Minitiouner kits from REF or BATC for about 100 Euros which is still a very cost effective solution.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
Originalnachricht Von: Jean Marc Momple Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2020 17:38 An: Matthias Bopp Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Dear All,
Forgot to say a major positive about QO-100 which is the cost of setting up a Ground Station for narrow the band transponder, assuming that the PC is already available and that one use a Tx/Rx such as the Pluto or Lime SDR,s a few Chinese WiFi booster, a PLL LNB and a 80cm dish, the total cost is less than US$ 400.
This is really attractive to students and for all Ham’s with modest means compared with buying any commercially available transceiver (or may be 2 actually) for satellite operations, thus cost of entry in QO-100 is really affordable to newbies, more these guys may immediately jump in real Dx QSO’s and learn the trade, this surely motivate them for further experimentation. Particularly in remote Islands like us in that part of the globe.
My 1 cent additional input to the subject.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Jean Marc Momple [email protected] wrote:
Mattias,
Thanks for having corrected the matter which may have created wrong perceptions.
Thanks to AMSAT DL, QARS and the sponsors who made such a great Radio Amateur bird possible, again congratulations for that.
That said I wish to confirm/comment your last paragraph, as follows:
In the Indian Ocean FR (mainly Reunion Island and 3B* Mauritius) we are only a few Hams. With HF not going through these days the hobby was somehow left on the side by some and QO-100 has really revived the activities.
To share my personal case I was able to experiment microwave (2.4/10GHz) and modes such as ATV for the first time in my Ham life (licensed since 1977) as there was no-one around to be able to contact on these bands and modes. Now building a 3m dish experiment different types of feeds etc.. (some other local guys also and even students).
In a nutshell a new world (or at least a half one) made available to us, many experimentations and learnings. I feel like again being 16 (age when I got my licence) as building antennas again, feeds, assembly of various components to build the QO-100 station.
I just hope the ones not in coverage presently will get a in a Ham GEO coverage soon and hopefully will fully understand what it means really.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all." The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to build the transponders themselves. The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company. Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies." Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a linear transponder with an AGC etc. In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites. Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you. But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes. QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21 An: Joe Leikhim [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Jean Marc,
It is a pity that your Minitiouner and Pluto are damaged. I hope you can possibly repair one or the other ...
Actually, I prefer the Lime-USB for narrowband operations on QO-100.
I modified the Pluto for external reference and thus it is also stable. Yet I use it mostly for DATV-TX.
I agree that SDR-Console is a great tool for operations via QO-100 and the majority of the QO-100 operators are meanwhile using it. Simon has spent a lot of work on getting the Lime-SDR and Pluto-SDR working fine including locking the RX chain to the PSK beacon. I remember in the "hot phase" of his development which lasted about 3 months several Beta-Testers including myself spent many hours in testing the various beta-versions from Simon.
I am looking forward to talk to you again on QO-100-
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jean Marc Momple [email protected] Gesendet: Montag, 22. Juni 2020 18:43 An: Matthias Bopp [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Mathias,
Yes, the Minitiouner is really great for ATV, unfortunately mine is kaput due to an accidental short circuit cause by my dog (hi!) and therefore less active on ATV these days. I need to order another one but waiting for commercial opening of the airways to Europe.
I prefer the Lime as the Pluto drift is annoying (but manageable), anyway my Pluto also kaput due to same incident stated above so using the Lime.
All these relatively cheap hardware and a computer makes it so easy and open such great experiments. As a matter of fact with a RTL SDR costing only US$24 I uploaded more than a million of Telemetry frames to various organisations such as Satnogs, Funcube, AMSAT (Foxtelem), Universities, even to Harbin for the Lunar bird, etc.
Also to share, made many experiment with LNB’s for QO-100, modified quite a few LNB’s, tested many from the most expensive such as the Bullseye, Octagon, to the cheapest Chinese PLL (at US$ 3), all work fine on QO-100 with SDR Console (thanks to Simon Brown G4ELI) particularly with the GEO sync.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 21, 2020, at 7:58 PM, Matthias Bopp [email protected] wrote:
Hi Jean-Marc,
Very good point.
Actually if you use a Pluto you can use it also with a software based free solution to receive the WB Transponder without additional cost.
To receive the WB Transponder I prefer the Minitiouner kits from REF or BATC for about 100 Euros which is still a very cost effective solution.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
Originalnachricht Von: Jean Marc Momple Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2020 17:38 An: Matthias Bopp Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Dear All,
Forgot to say a major positive about QO-100 which is the cost of setting up a Ground Station for narrow the band transponder, assuming that the PC is already available and that one use a Tx/Rx such as the Pluto or Lime SDR,s a few Chinese WiFi booster, a PLL LNB and a 80cm dish, the total cost is less than US$ 400.
This is really attractive to students and for all Ham’s with modest means compared with buying any commercially available transceiver (or may be 2 actually) for satellite operations, thus cost of entry in QO-100 is really affordable to newbies, more these guys may immediately jump in real Dx QSO’s and learn the trade, this surely motivate them for further experimentation. Particularly in remote Islands like us in that part of the globe.
My 1 cent additional input to the subject.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Jean Marc Momple [email protected] wrote:
Mattias,
Thanks for having corrected the matter which may have created wrong perceptions.
Thanks to AMSAT DL, QARS and the sponsors who made such a great Radio Amateur bird possible, again congratulations for that.
That said I wish to confirm/comment your last paragraph, as follows:
In the Indian Ocean FR (mainly Reunion Island and 3B* Mauritius) we are only a few Hams. With HF not going through these days the hobby was somehow left on the side by some and QO-100 has really revived the activities.
To share my personal case I was able to experiment microwave (2.4/10GHz) and modes such as ATV for the first time in my Ham life (licensed since 1977) as there was no-one around to be able to contact on these bands and modes. Now building a 3m dish experiment different types of feeds etc.. (some other local guys also and even students).
In a nutshell a new world (or at least a half one) made available to us, many experimentations and learnings. I feel like again being 16 (age when I got my licence) as building antennas again, feeds, assembly of various components to build the QO-100 station.
I just hope the ones not in coverage presently will get a in a Ham GEO coverage soon and hopefully will fully understand what it means really.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all." The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to build the transponders themselves. The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company. Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies." Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a linear transponder with an AGC etc. In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites. Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you. But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes. QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21 An: Joe Leikhim [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Roger and QSL, Mathias,
Yes, seems that the Pluto is quite popular on QO-100 particularly with the TXCO modification posted on the WEB (sorry to the author I do not remind his call and name), positive feedback received from many.
Yes, Simon did a great job and I take this opportunity to congratulate him for same, his baby is being used by so many guys now that if it was a commercial venture he would be very rich selling it. So, I believe that all of us using his software, which has taken surely took a lot of effort and hard work, should somehow contribute and compensate him with at least a beer or something for his starving dog to motivate him for further improvement of his superb soft as most of us tend to believe that everything should be free of charge on the net. This also applies to many other HAMs devoting a lot time and hard work for the community (over years) such as my friends Mike (DK3WN) and Daniel (EA4GPZ) who both wrote a lot of TLM decoders for many birds, also Andrei (UZ7HO) for his modems which are great, just to mention a few (as there are many more).
That said I really believe that if we want more birds such as HEO or GEO to have a truly global coverage we need to think big as a worldwide community and also contribute to it (each one within its own means and possibilities), however a common focus vision and goal across the globe is required to make it happens. Our leaders globally may wish to give it a thought) and work together a strategy/plan. I am ready do help and surely many others.
I really appreciate the effort and work of all the ones doing such a great job of putting us in space and also wish to also congratule /thanks them for their hard work (some were mentioned on this topic).
We need to think big (with unfortunately shallow pockets) but if we try hard we may succeed with a constellation of birds and 24 hrs coverage across the globe, just a dream I wish to share to all, it is possible if we can federate all HAM organization around the planet (may be through IARU?) and get support from some sponsors.
Just thinking aloud and dreaming this side, but with no dreams we go nowhere...
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 22, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Matthias Bopp [email protected] wrote:
Hi Jean Marc,
It is a pity that your Minitiouner and Pluto are damaged. I hope you can possibly repair one or the other ...
Actually, I prefer the Lime-USB for narrowband operations on QO-100.
I modified the Pluto for external reference and thus it is also stable. Yet I use it mostly for DATV-TX.
I agree that SDR-Console is a great tool for operations via QO-100 and the majority of the QO-100 operators are meanwhile using it. Simon has spent a lot of work on getting the Lime-SDR and Pluto-SDR working fine including locking the RX chain to the PSK beacon. I remember in the "hot phase" of his development which lasted about 3 months several Beta-Testers including myself spent many hours in testing the various beta-versions from Simon.
I am looking forward to talk to you again on QO-100-
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jean Marc Momple [email protected] Gesendet: Montag, 22. Juni 2020 18:43 An: Matthias Bopp [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Mathias,
Yes, the Minitiouner is really great for ATV, unfortunately mine is kaput due to an accidental short circuit cause by my dog (hi!) and therefore less active on ATV these days. I need to order another one but waiting for commercial opening of the airways to Europe.
I prefer the Lime as the Pluto drift is annoying (but manageable), anyway my Pluto also kaput due to same incident stated above so using the Lime.
All these relatively cheap hardware and a computer makes it so easy and open such great experiments. As a matter of fact with a RTL SDR costing only US$24 I uploaded more than a million of Telemetry frames to various organisations such as Satnogs, Funcube, AMSAT (Foxtelem), Universities, even to Harbin for the Lunar bird, etc.
Also to share, made many experiment with LNB’s for QO-100, modified quite a few LNB’s, tested many from the most expensive such as the Bullseye, Octagon, to the cheapest Chinese PLL (at US$ 3), all work fine on QO-100 with SDR Console (thanks to Simon Brown G4ELI) particularly with the GEO sync.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 21, 2020, at 7:58 PM, Matthias Bopp [email protected] wrote:
Hi Jean-Marc,
Very good point.
Actually if you use a Pluto you can use it also with a software based free solution to receive the WB Transponder without additional cost.
To receive the WB Transponder I prefer the Minitiouner kits from REF or BATC for about 100 Euros which is still a very cost effective solution.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
Originalnachricht Von: Jean Marc Momple Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2020 17:38 An: Matthias Bopp Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Dear All,
Forgot to say a major positive about QO-100 which is the cost of setting up a Ground Station for narrow the band transponder, assuming that the PC is already available and that one use a Tx/Rx such as the Pluto or Lime SDR,s a few Chinese WiFi booster, a PLL LNB and a 80cm dish, the total cost is less than US$ 400.
This is really attractive to students and for all Ham’s with modest means compared with buying any commercially available transceiver (or may be 2 actually) for satellite operations, thus cost of entry in QO-100 is really affordable to newbies, more these guys may immediately jump in real Dx QSO’s and learn the trade, this surely motivate them for further experimentation. Particularly in remote Islands like us in that part of the globe.
My 1 cent additional input to the subject.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Jean Marc Momple [email protected] wrote:
Mattias,
Thanks for having corrected the matter which may have created wrong perceptions.
Thanks to AMSAT DL, QARS and the sponsors who made such a great Radio Amateur bird possible, again congratulations for that.
That said I wish to confirm/comment your last paragraph, as follows:
In the Indian Ocean FR (mainly Reunion Island and 3B* Mauritius) we are only a few Hams. With HF not going through these days the hobby was somehow left on the side by some and QO-100 has really revived the activities.
To share my personal case I was able to experiment microwave (2.4/10GHz) and modes such as ATV for the first time in my Ham life (licensed since 1977) as there was no-one around to be able to contact on these bands and modes. Now building a 3m dish experiment different types of feeds etc.. (some other local guys also and even students).
In a nutshell a new world (or at least a half one) made available to us, many experimentations and learnings. I feel like again being 16 (age when I got my licence) as building antennas again, feeds, assembly of various components to build the QO-100 station.
I just hope the ones not in coverage presently will get a in a Ham GEO coverage soon and hopefully will fully understand what it means really.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all." The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to build the transponders themselves. The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company. Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies." Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a linear transponder with an AGC etc. In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites. Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you. But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes. QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21 An: Joe Leikhim [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Jean Marc,
If remember right, Sigi DG9BFC and Sandor DM4DS were the first who modified the Pluto using a better TCXO and for sure they helped a lot of other HAMs to get it done or even did the modification for them.
Simon not only enabled us to use SDR-Technology in a nice ready-made software package but also added satellite tracking capabilities to his software. And for sure Mike, Daniel, Andrej and several others are providing a great service to our Ham Radio Community with their software and by sharing their experience. It is all about learning from each other as life is too short to do all on our own.
The Cubesat frame structure, quite some components and even the deployment systems have been successfully standardized and thus it got much easier to build and get them launched. Still each successful deployment of them is a remarkable accomplishment by the teams behind.
I am afraid that developing and building a HEO or GEO-payload and getting a launch for it is a world of difference.
But of course, one can learn from the Cubesat projects. Standardizing the frame structure and the subsystems might be one of the key factors to make your dream true and to succeed with a constellation of such satellites. I agree the chances should be much higher to accomplish this ambitious goal if cooperating across countries and continents. I am not so familiar with the international Ham Radio organizations and thus I cannot judge whether IARU is a suitable organization to facilitate such an international effort.
In my humble opinion the main challenge is to find an appropriate launch opportunity for a HEO respectively a rideshare for a GEO. For sure it is nowadays not easier than at the times of AO10, AO13 and AO40. Also here leveraging international resources and relationships should help. Maybe we can find another sponsor like Es'hailSat.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jean Marc Momple [email protected] Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Juni 2020 19:24 An: Matthias Bopp [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Roger and QSL, Mathias,
Yes, seems that the Pluto is quite popular on QO-100 particularly with the TXCO modification posted on the WEB (sorry to the author I do not remind his call and name), positive feedback received from many.
Yes, Simon did a great job and I take this opportunity to congratulate him for same, his baby is being used by so many guys now that if it was a commercial venture he would be very rich selling it. So, I believe that all of us using his software, which has taken surely took a lot of effort and hard work, should somehow contribute and compensate him with at least a beer or something for his starving dog to motivate him for further improvement of his superb soft as most of us tend to believe that everything should be free of charge on the net. This also applies to many other HAMs devoting a lot time and hard work for the community (over years) such as my friends Mike (DK3WN) and Daniel (EA4GPZ) who both wrote a lot of TLM decoders for many birds, also Andrei (UZ7HO) for his modems which are great, just to mention a few (as there are many more).
That said I really believe that if we want more birds such as HEO or GEO to have a truly global coverage we need to think big as a worldwide community and also contribute to it (each one within its own means and possibilities), however a common focus vision and goal across the globe is required to make it happens. Our leaders globally may wish to give it a thought) and work together a strategy/plan. I am ready do help and surely many others.
I really appreciate the effort and work of all the ones doing such a great job of putting us in space and also wish to also congratule /thanks them for their hard work (some were mentioned on this topic).
We need to think big (with unfortunately shallow pockets) but if we try hard we may succeed with a constellation of birds and 24 hrs coverage across the globe, just a dream I wish to share to all, it is possible if we can federate all HAM organization around the planet (may be through IARU?) and get support from some sponsors.
Just thinking aloud and dreaming this side, but with no dreams we go nowhere...
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 22, 2020, at 9:15 PM, Matthias Bopp [email protected] wrote:
Hi Jean Marc,
It is a pity that your Minitiouner and Pluto are damaged. I hope you can possibly repair one or the other ...
Actually, I prefer the Lime-USB for narrowband operations on QO-100.
I modified the Pluto for external reference and thus it is also stable. Yet I use it mostly for DATV-TX.
I agree that SDR-Console is a great tool for operations via QO-100 and the majority of the QO-100 operators are meanwhile using it. Simon has spent a lot of work on getting the Lime-SDR and Pluto-SDR working fine including locking the RX chain to the PSK beacon. I remember in the "hot phase" of his development which lasted about 3 months several Beta-Testers including myself spent many hours in testing the various beta-versions from Simon.
I am looking forward to talk to you again on QO-100-
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jean Marc Momple [email protected] Gesendet: Montag, 22. Juni 2020 18:43 An: Matthias Bopp [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Mathias,
Yes, the Minitiouner is really great for ATV, unfortunately mine is kaput due to an accidental short circuit cause by my dog (hi!) and therefore less active on ATV these days. I need to order another one but waiting for commercial opening of the airways to Europe.
I prefer the Lime as the Pluto drift is annoying (but manageable), anyway my Pluto also kaput due to same incident stated above so using the Lime.
All these relatively cheap hardware and a computer makes it so easy and open such great experiments. As a matter of fact with a RTL SDR costing only US$24 I uploaded more than a million of Telemetry frames to various organisations such as Satnogs, Funcube, AMSAT (Foxtelem), Universities, even to Harbin for the Lunar bird, etc.
Also to share, made many experiment with LNB’s for QO-100, modified quite a few LNB’s, tested many from the most expensive such as the Bullseye, Octagon, to the cheapest Chinese PLL (at US$ 3), all work fine on QO-100 with SDR Console (thanks to Simon Brown G4ELI) particularly with the GEO sync.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 21, 2020, at 7:58 PM, Matthias Bopp [email protected] wrote:
Hi Jean-Marc,
Very good point.
Actually if you use a Pluto you can use it also with a software based free solution to receive the WB Transponder without additional cost.
To receive the WB Transponder I prefer the Minitiouner kits from REF or BATC for about 100 Euros which is still a very cost effective solution.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
Originalnachricht Von: Jean Marc Momple Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2020 17:38 An: Matthias Bopp Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Dear All,
Forgot to say a major positive about QO-100 which is the cost of setting up a Ground Station for narrow the band transponder, assuming that the PC is already available and that one use a Tx/Rx such as the Pluto or Lime SDR,s a few Chinese WiFi booster, a PLL LNB and a 80cm dish, the total cost is less than US$ 400.
This is really attractive to students and for all Ham’s with modest means compared with buying any commercially available transceiver (or may be 2 actually) for satellite operations, thus cost of entry in QO-100 is really affordable to newbies, more these guys may immediately jump in real Dx QSO’s and learn the trade, this surely motivate them for further experimentation. Particularly in remote Islands like us in that part of the globe.
My 1 cent additional input to the subject.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 6:50 PM, Jean Marc Momple [email protected] wrote:
Mattias,
Thanks for having corrected the matter which may have created wrong perceptions.
Thanks to AMSAT DL, QARS and the sponsors who made such a great Radio Amateur bird possible, again congratulations for that.
That said I wish to confirm/comment your last paragraph, as follows:
In the Indian Ocean FR (mainly Reunion Island and 3B* Mauritius) we are only a few Hams. With HF not going through these days the hobby was somehow left on the side by some and QO-100 has really revived the activities.
To share my personal case I was able to experiment microwave (2.4/10GHz) and modes such as ATV for the first time in my Ham life (licensed since 1977) as there was no-one around to be able to contact on these bands and modes. Now building a 3m dish experiment different types of feeds etc.. (some other local guys also and even students).
In a nutshell a new world (or at least a half one) made available to us, many experimentations and learnings. I feel like again being 16 (age when I got my licence) as building antennas again, feeds, assembly of various components to build the QO-100 station.
I just hope the ones not in coverage presently will get a in a Ham GEO coverage soon and hopefully will fully understand what it means really.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Jun 20, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Matthias Bopp via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Paul,
With all due respect. I already tried to explain to you less than 48 hours ago: this is not just a simple retuned hardware on QO-100
You stated "It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all." The payload was specified by AMSAT and during the design AMSAT did participate in all critical design reviews. AMSAT indeed first intended to build the transponders themselves. The owner of the satellite did trust the technical knowhow of AMSAT but for safety and insurance reasons the hardware was built by a professional company. Of course, QO-100 was coordinated via IARU and fully qualifies as an amateur satellite (payload). Therefore, it got the number 100 (from AMSAT-NA).
You stated "The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies." Let me explain it in simple words so you understand: you cannot simply retune a WCDMA cellphone and use it as a 2m FM handheld transceiver The hardware in commercial satellite transponders is not meant to be a linear transponder with an AGC etc. In addition, there are no 2.4GHz/10GHz transponders on commercial satellites. Thus, the hardware had to be custom built for QO-100. The same is true for the uplink and downlink antennas. The only parts which are reused are the TWT PAs.
So please, if you need help to understand the architecture or the published block diagram of the amateur payload please contact the responsible people of AMSAT-DL and they will be happy to help you. But please stop commenting about a satellite you have apparently no clue about or you do not understand the underlying technology.
In any case, meanwhile there more than 1000 happy users in more than 100 countries who are enjoying QO-100 using many different operating modes. QO-100 has stimulated a lot of technical activities in the microwave bands and a lot of radio amateurs, who never used the microwave bands, learned how to build and operate a station with 13cm uplink and 10 GHz downlink.
Kind regards
Matthias
www.dd1us.de
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [email protected] Im Auftrag von Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB Gesendet: Samstag, 20. Juni 2020 06:21 An: Joe Leikhim [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] GeoSat OSCAR-2024 Positive comments, no, whining....(Was need HEO..please..)
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day.
The issue is that to get an American company to do this, you need millions of dollars up front and then probably millions of dollars a year to support it. It’s been looked into multiple times over the years and no one is willing to just give that away or even quote a price that’s remotely reasonable.
I do take issue with your choice of words in describing GOLF-TEE as “baby steps.” GOLF is a project that AMSAT has committed a large amount of money and man-hours to. It is a very significant project and will lead us back to HEO. Our engineering team is doing tremendous work and deserves the full support and encouragement of the amateur community. Sadly, I feel that support is often lacking and, frankly, our volunteers deserve better than that.
If you want a HEO, support AMSAT and GOLF in any way that you can. AMSAT is 100% committed and I am personally 100% committed to making this happen for the community.
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Paul,
I believe Amsat-DL cannot respond due to an NDA. As far as I could follow as a user, there is no risk that Es'HailSat will "take over" the transponders. They were donated to the radio amateurs community when the satellite was still in the planning stage. The whole project for the amateur part was followed, planned and coordinated by Amsat-DL. There are at least 600 kg of materials built by Amsat-DL in the ground control station of the Es'HailSat-2 satellite.
In China, radio amateurs are held in high regard and supported by universities and public bodies. This is just an example. http://lilacsat.hit.edu.cn/wp/?page_id=844
The problem, forgive me, concerns only the United States, public and private bodies, which no longer believe in the contribution of radio amateurs in social life. Radio amateurs have always had an edge. Fior of technicians were trained thanks to amateur satellites. Experiences and skills that are then brought back to the commercial world. Either American commercial companies and public bodies believe in this contribution or do not believe it. Donations are important, but without public / private contributions, you don't go anywhere.
73, Lucio I0LYL
Il 20/06/2020 06:20, Paul Stoetzer via AMSAT-BB ha scritto:
Joe,
It’s important to note that QO-100 is not an amateur payload at all. The two transponders in amateur use are on-orbit commercial spares modified to tune to amateur frequencies. And, of course, there’s the risk that the spares may be needed for commercial service some day. ...
73,
Paul Stoetzer, N8HM Executive Vice President AMSAT
On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 00:01 Joe Leikhim via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Robert;
AMSAT has been in HEO before and can get there again.
The idea of my proposal is to piggy back on a willing commercial satellite. The owner of that satellite would be handling the necessary regulatory issues/problems. This idea has been proposed before but convincing a commercial satellite owner to attach unproven payload has always been an negative argument. No longer, because OSCAR-100 is proven hardware and it should be considered.
Meanwhile GOLF-TEE can continue to take baby steps.
Looking for ideas to promote this idea. Be positive.
-- Joe Leikhim
Leikhim and Associates
Communications Consultants
Oviedo, Florida
407-982-0446
WWW.LEIKHIM.COM
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (5)
-
Jean Marc Momple -
Joe Leikhim -
Lucio I0LYL -
Matthias Bopp -
Paul Stoetzer