See Below, On 9/22/2011 5:50 PM, Ted wrote:

"Are the linear sats too complicated?

NO!

Do people not have SSB and CW equipment or are they just not interested anymore."

That is Hard to say,,

Tom, speaking only for me, I have tried several times to work a linear. I have a TS 2000 with the sat function and HRD sat program which allegedly adjust the Doppler, 2m/440 SSB and a Elk on a rotor w/fixed el.. Try as I might, I cannot get the tx and rx to match so I can duplex.

There is a simple fix to this,, SHUT ALL THAT CRAP OFF! In the 70's we didn't have anything like that. The flight computer if you were lucky to have one was a piece of cardboard with a clear plastic overlay to tell you where the Bird is, An "Oscar Locator" it was called.

As far as doppler correction,,, we turned the large knob on the front of the radio, thats our doppler correction system.

There just does not seem to be single primer that one can follow on how to accomplish the process. There are multiple opinions from individuals, but not much of a consensus on a good standard process. Admittedly, I have problem not given a fair amount of time on my technique as I was concentrating on VUCC. Now that that will go to the card checker tomorrow, I need to spend some time on the linear. I just wish there was a 'manual'

It's called doing it "Manually"

Simple and very effective thousands of hams did it for decades, no reason it won't work now.

Joe WB9SBD

73, Ted K7TRK

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Doyle Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 12:02 PM To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Two Questions

I have two questions that I have wondered about for quite a while.

There was a gap in my satellite activity of 20 years or so. AO-10 was the last satellite I used a lot. Not sure what sparked my interest again but I have been having a great time on the satellites. Right from the beginning I noticed that things have changed a lot. I have made about 70 contacts on CW, SSB and FM. Most of the contacts have been on FM.

Question 1 relates to activity levels. I have 270 something countries on HF so I have been in my share of DX pileups. What I find really strange is how there will be the usual horrific pile up on AO-51 and then when an FO-29 pass comes a short time later there will usually be no one on. I realize the emphasis is all on "keeping it simple" but wonder how this change occurred. Did it happen all at once - did it happen when the last HEO satellite died. Are the linear sats too complicated. Do people not have SSB and CW equipment or are they just not interested anymore.

Question 2 relates to the rest of the world. I notice that FO-29, which seems to be the best linear satellite, came from Japan. What is activity like in Japan/Europe and the rest of the world outside the US. Is it mostly just FM on V/U sats. I believe the current US effort is an FM only Fox with a linear sat in the "2015 time frame". Since the FO-29 activity is almost zero it would see strange to put up another US linear sat at any time. As old as I am the "2015 time frame" might be beyond my chicken little date so I wonder if there are there any LEO linear sats in the works in other parts of the world.

I am not complaining I just wonder what happened and what the future holds. Feel free to reply directly.

73 W9KE tom ... AMSAT LM 0875

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Domenico,

Don't blame it on the newcomers, when the old-guys don't put enough effort into educating the new guys.

I can consider myself a satellite newcomer. My very first sat QSO was on AO-7 using a homebrew IOio made out of PVC pipe and copper tubing and an FT-736R. No software or even a rotor. Now that being said, I today use software because it makes it more pleasant, plus I enjoy linking up radios with computers and building stuff. I do know how to do it without though.

There seems to be a lot of bashing of clueless newbs wherever I turn on the Internet when it comes to ham radio. So I have to ask you: have you done anything lately to educate new hams?

As for the original poster: forget the software, eliminate all pieces that aren't necessary to operate which makes it easier to troubleshoot. Then when you have the radio part down, start with the software part. Install Linux first and the hamlib and Gpredict. Hook everything up and be a happy camper. Real men use Linux/UNIX anyway (sorry couldn't resists and a bit of controversy is always fun ;) ).

73 Mike K5TRI

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:32 PM, i8cvs domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" nss@mwt.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 2:47 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions

...

See Below,

...

On 9/22/2011 5:50 PM, Ted wrote:

...

...

"Are the linear sats too complicated?

...

NO!

...

...

Do people not have SSB and CW equipment or are they just not interested anymore."

...

That is Hard to say,,

...

...

Tom, speaking only for me, I have tried several times to work a linear. I have a TS 2000 with the sat function and HRD sat program which allegedly adjust the Doppler, 2m/440 SSB and a Elk on a rotor w/fixed el.. Try as I might, I cannot get the tx and rx to match so I can duplex.

...

There is a simple fix to this,, SHUT ALL THAT CRAP OFF! In the 70's we didn't have anything like that. The flight computer if you were lucky to have one was a piece of cardboard with a clear plastic overlay to tell you where the Bird is, An "Oscar Locator" it was called.

As far as doppler correction,,, we turned the large knob on the front of the radio, thats our doppler correction system.

...

...

There just does not seem to be single primer that one can follow on how to accomplish the process. There are multiple opinions from

individuals,

...

...

but not much of a consensus on a good standard process. Admittedly, I have problem not given a fair amount of time on my technique as I was concentrating on VUCC. Now that that will go to the card checker tomorrow, I need to spend some time on the linear. I just wish there

was

...

...

a 'manual'

...

It's called doing it "Manually"

Simple and very effective thousands of hams did it for decades, no reason it won't work now.

Joe WB9SBD

...

...

73, Ted K7TRK

Hi Joe, WB9SBD

I agree completely with you because I started to work satellites with OSCAR-6 not to collect grids but to improve my knowledge in radio tecnology.

Put now an "Oscar Locator" in the hand of a satellite newcomer is like to say to him to drive a Ford Model T called also Tin Lizzie or Flivver and he will bump into a wall !

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

---

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Domenico,

I already came across your articles. The reason I brought it up was that I see so many complain about new hams not knowing this, or that and the other too but then most don't really try to help and teach.

I live by the principle that what you learn you must share and what you know you must teach. That's the only way we as society evolve and that includes ham radio :).

But again, bashing on the newcomers doesn't help anything. If they're only shown how to work a satellite with a HT and a store bought antenna then that's what we get. Let's help these folks get to the next step and show them that you can actually have a real QSO on a satellite but in an informative way, not talking down on them.

73 Mike K5TRI

On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:49 PM, i8cvs wrote:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Schulz" mschulz@creative-chaos.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 5:20 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Two Questions

...

Domenico,

<snip> > > There seems to be a lot of bashing of clueless newbs wherever I turn on > the Internet when it comes to ham radio. So I have to ask you: have you > done anything lately to educate new hams? > >> 73 Mike K5TRI

Hi Mike K5TRI

Yes I did always my effort to educate the new radio hams to use satellites in order to improve their knoledge in radio tecnology and not only to use satellites to collect only grids for very small.

Read please my technical articles into the AMSAT-Journal

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

Hi!

WB9SBD commented:

...

"Are the linear sats too complicated?

NO!

<snip>

As far as doppler correction,,, we turned the large knob on the front of the radio,  thats our doppler correction system.

<snip>

Simple and very effective  thousands of hams did it for decades, no reason it won't work now.

It still works in 2011.

Until very recently, I did all my satellite operating with portable stations in the field - city parks, parking lots, hamfests, the proverbial "middle of nowhere", or wherever I could set up and operate. I intentionally started out without relying on a computer to control my radios, and have stayed with that for the past few years I have been on the SSB birds. For me, a computer would add to the complexity of operating in the field - have to power it, be able to see the LCD display (a problem with many laptops that use glossy LCD panels like my Acer netbook), and hoping it doesn't suffer a failure.

Now that I just moved into a house, I hope to take some time to finally dust off my SatPC32 and USB/serial adapters and see how things are with computer control, working initially from my back yard. I'll probably still deal with the antenna by holding it, and then getting a tripod it can sit on. Down the road, I *might* look at an az/el rotator setup that can break down and fit in the back of my truck, as well as work from the back yard at home.

K5TRI also added:

But again, bashing on the newcomers doesn't help anything. If they're only shown how to work a satellite with a HT and a store bought antenna then that's what we get. Let's help these folks get to the next step and show them that you can actually have a real QSO on a satellite but in an informative way, not talking down on them.

I hope you are able to be on VO-52 on Saturday, 22 October, when I am doing demonstrations on FM and SSB satellites from a hamfest in Tucson AZ that morning. If there are FM passes available that morning, I will be on them - as well as the VO-52 passes. At the hamfests I have operated from, the SSB demonstrations usually attract the larger crowds. When they see it does not take much more equipment to work SSB than FM via satellite, that turns out to be a pleasant surprise for the audiences.

I use a pair of FT-817NDs (or sometimes I substitute a TH-F6A in place of the FT-817ND I use to receive the downlinks) and a "store bought antenna" (an Elk log periodic) for my all-mode satellite station. This station, except for the Elk, fits in an old laptop bag that has seen tens of thousands of miles of travel in the past couple of years around North America and - recently - Australia.

Working SSB via satellite is like working FM via satellite - you need the right equipment, and need to allocate time to practice with all the gear. More time is usually needed for the SSB birds compared to FM, but it will open up more satellites that you can work. And it is fun!

73!

Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/

Hi Mike!

In the morning should be a 9:40ish am pass local time for me. So I might be on it sipping my coffee :). The big difference that you can show is, that the linear birds are not like a zoo at times (except for the 5 am passes during the weekends on AO-51) and you can have a real QSO for the entire length of the pass. Granted you may only collect one grid and you may already have that one but it's simply an addition.

It may be almost a month until that hamfest in Tucson, but I hope to hear you on that morning.

I've done demonstrations on SSB satellites for the past couple of years, and know that I may end up with a single QSO for the entire pass. On some rare occasions, I end up talking to myself for the entire pass. Then I can pass the time by demonstrating how I sound through the satellite as I reduce power from 5W to the lowest power setting on my FT-817ND transmitter (500mW). I usually can get more than one QSO on these demonstrations, thanks to those reading the -BB and showing up on the passes I am working.

As for grids, the QSOs at demonstrations away from the Phoenix area don't help my grid count. They may help your grid count, depending on what you need. :-)

My current antenna setup is a AR-22 TV rotor with a 5 ele 2M and a 10 ele 70cm at 30 deg fixed elevation both horizontal polarized. Total cost approx. $200 plus cables. Next project will be to build a 2nd IOio and phase them together 90 deg off to see if that will help with the fading issue (mostly on FO-29) vs buying or building a complex RHCP/LHCP switchable setup.

If that's what you were using when I worked you last month on VO-52, it sounded really well. Good job! Maybe we can hook up on FO-29 or AO-7 (mode B) sometime soon.

My IOio beats your Arrow or Elk in terms of price by leaps :). But then again it doesn't look as nice.

My Elk was a Christmas gift a few years ago, so it was free to me. But yes, the cost of the parts for an IOio or a WA5VJB "cheap Yagi" will beat the MSRP of my Elk.

73!

Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/