Re: [amsat-bb] Financial arguments about full duplex (ez-peezy)
You can make a UHF Satellite Receive Antenna for about a dollar. You take a 18" by 3' rectangle of garden fence, bend it into a linear parabola, mount a $35 UHF HT at the focal point and make a handle for it. Done.
See the June 2004 QST cover photo of it in use by students: https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.qrz.com/h/kb9sxh/cover_shot_QST_bmp.jpg
No coax, no feeds, no nothing. Just the HT, 6" from the back of the parabola. And it is lighter than an arrow (also shown in that photo)
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 11:03 AM To: Jerry Conner; AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Financial arguments about full duplex
The financial argument is a weak one at best. A WA5VJB Cheap yagi is about 10 dollars of materials (you can skip the diplexer with two radios), and I have recently seen and purchased older full sized 2m HTs and UHF analog only scanners for as cheap as 5 dollars at hamfests. Add a $30 Baofeng and you have a satellite setup for next to nothing.
Don't want to build or can't? The price difference between an Arrow antenna with a diplexer, and one without is about $60, or the cost of TWO cheap HTs. Use the extra $30 to buy some good cables.
I certainly don't mind if those getting started try half-duplex at first, and it has it's place in some situations. I even wrote an article 10 years ago about half duplex ops with the FT-817 on FO-29, which I plan to update soon, but the linear sats are different animals, with different challenges.
Once you try full duplex and realize the benefits of being able to hear if you are causing or being QRM, and being able to twist the antenna during transmit to get a better uplink signal, you won't want to go back to the old way.
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Conner via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Jun 28, 2016 10:42 AM To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] FW: [FWD: RE: Southern CA Satellite Presentations]
Then what I am hearing, "AS A NEWBIE" is that I am not welcome on the
Sats because I do not have the financial resources to invest in all the equipment needed to run full duplex. It is more than two cheap Chinese radios, it also involves an antenna, which at the very least it is almost double the cost of the two Chinese radios.
Money that some of us have a hard time pulling together.
I have a hard time with all the purest, my way or the highway mentality I
am hearing.
Just my 2 cents
Jerry W4JWC
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Southern CA Satellite Presentations From: Michael <Mat_62@charter.net mailto:Mat_62@charter.net > Date: Mon, June 27, 2016 9:04 pm To: amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org
I could care less whether you have ever uttered it or not in one of your live presentations. It is printed in black and white in your
handout.
You just quoted it yourself. The minute you typed that phrase and began giving out handouts or telling people to print it out you became guilty of spreading ignorance as far as satellite operation is concerned. You are leading newbie sat operators down a path they should not be on. If one does not have the means to hear their own signal coming back from the bird so as to insure they are "making it there" then they should not be on the satellites. End of story. Michael, W4HIJ On 6/26/2016 11:37 PM, Clint Bradford wrote:
... you would quit telling people that full duplex is "not mandatory"
for working sats.
You've never attended one of my sat sessions. I have never uttered the sentence to groups, "It is not mandatory to work full-duplex. - PERIOD." My standard mantra for the easy FM birds is all over the
place:
"Ideally, we should be working the satellites in full duplex mode, where we can simultaneously listen to the downlink as we are transmitting. Although this method is preferred, it is not mandatory: Carefully monitor the downlink, and wait for a break in the
conversations to announce yourself."
People you might be hearing stepping on others are not following those
instructions.
And all my audiences are very graphically shown and told the reasons why working full- duplex is preferable.
I didn't work full-duplex when speaking with Commander Wiseman - who was aboard the ISS at the time during Field Day 2014.
If you haven't already given a presentation to your club on working the easy birds, I am available. Just send me an email message.
Clint Bradford K6LCS (909) 999-SATS _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of
the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the
author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I just want to throw this out, not as a "You Can" but as a "I did" as those are two completely separate distinctions in an argument.
I made my first few hundred contacts using this to receive SO-50:
https://goo.gl/photos/K2YrjzCVXF1MTPV46
And This to Transmit on:
https://goo.gl/photos/pyFHt7CfNpnjzLPS7
I used a FT-1900 that a local ham club DONATED to me to transmit:
https://goo.gl/photos/pyFHt7CfNpnjzLPS7
And a Baofeng to receive:
https://goo.gl/photos/3rDVBdbjjzt8cGfq9
I did this not out of financial concerns - I could have easily afforded a bigger more potent station - but I just wanted to see what I could do (and my wife was not super keen on me spending thousands of dollars on a hobby I wasn't sure I was going to embrace yet). The connectors were hamfest so-239 adapters I picked up for 99 cents each, the coax was donated by local old men who had small chunks laying around.. the wood for the booms was leftover trim board I had from construction projects, and brass welding rod was measured in dollars per pound at the local tractor supply. I was literally on the birds those first 6 months or so with less than $50 invested in gear... and during that time I got VUCC, handed out something like 25 grids while /P, and got hooked on something that has turned into so much more than just a hobby for me.
I know we're all prone to hyperbole and reductio ad absurdum when internetting, but c'mon folks.. I really have to laugh at the "oh woes to me, 50 bucks is just too much" when I've seen what dudes in countries less wealthy than mine can do with their Satellite stations made out of fence posts and old televisions. The only line I see to operating on Satellites is 1. Do you have/can build a radio? and 2. Are you a jerk? If the answers are Yes and No, then you're welcome on the birds.
-Dave, KG5CCI
On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
You can make a UHF Satellite Receive Antenna for about a dollar. You take a 18" by 3' rectangle of garden fence, bend it into a linear parabola, mount a $35 UHF HT at the focal point and make a handle for it. Done.
See the June 2004 QST cover photo of it in use by students: https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.qrz.com/h/kb9sxh/cover_shot_QST_bmp.jpg
No coax, no feeds, no nothing. Just the HT, 6" from the back of the parabola. And it is lighter than an arrow (also shown in that photo)
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 11:03 AM To: Jerry Conner; AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Financial arguments about full duplex
The financial argument is a weak one at best. A WA5VJB Cheap yagi is about 10 dollars of materials (you can skip the diplexer with two radios), and I have recently seen and purchased older full sized 2m HTs and UHF analog only scanners for as cheap as 5 dollars at hamfests. Add a $30 Baofeng and you have a satellite setup for next to nothing.
Don't want to build or can't? The price difference between an Arrow antenna with a diplexer, and one without is about $60, or the cost of TWO cheap HTs. Use the extra $30 to buy some good cables.
I certainly don't mind if those getting started try half-duplex at first, and it has it's place in some situations. I even wrote an article 10 years ago about half duplex ops with the FT-817 on FO-29, which I plan to update soon, but the linear sats are different animals, with different challenges.
Once you try full duplex and realize the benefits of being able to hear if you are causing or being QRM, and being able to twist the antenna during transmit to get a better uplink signal, you won't want to go back to the old way.
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Conner via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Jun 28, 2016 10:42 AM To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] FW: [FWD: RE: Southern CA Satellite Presentations]
Then what I am hearing, "AS A NEWBIE" is that I am not welcome on the
Sats because I do not have the financial resources to invest in all the equipment needed to run full duplex. It is more than two cheap Chinese radios, it also involves an antenna, which at the very least it is almost double the cost of the two Chinese radios.
Money that some of us have a hard time pulling together.
I have a hard time with all the purest, my way or the highway mentality I
am hearing.
Just my 2 cents
Jerry W4JWC
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Southern CA Satellite Presentations From: Michael <Mat_62@charter.net mailto:Mat_62@charter.net > Date: Mon, June 27, 2016 9:04 pm To: amsat-bb@amsat.org mailto:amsat-bb@amsat.org
I could care less whether you have ever uttered it or not in one of your live presentations. It is printed in black and white in your
handout.
You just quoted it yourself. The minute you typed that phrase and began giving out handouts or telling people to print it out you became guilty of spreading ignorance as far as satellite operation is concerned. You are leading newbie sat operators down a path they should not be on. If one does not have the means to hear their own signal coming back from the bird so as to insure they are "making it there" then they should not be on the satellites. End of story. Michael, W4HIJ On 6/26/2016 11:37 PM, Clint Bradford wrote:
... you would quit telling people that full duplex is "not mandatory"
for working sats.
You've never attended one of my sat sessions. I have never uttered the sentence to groups, "It is not mandatory to work full-duplex. - PERIOD." My standard mantra for the easy FM birds is all over the
place:
"Ideally, we should be working the satellites in full duplex mode, where we can simultaneously listen to the downlink as we are transmitting. Although this method is preferred, it is not mandatory: Carefully monitor the downlink, and wait for a break in the
conversations to announce yourself."
People you might be hearing stepping on others are not following those
instructions.
And all my audiences are very graphically shown and told the reasons why working full- duplex is preferable.
I didn't work full-duplex when speaking with Commander Wiseman - who was aboard the ISS at the time during Field Day 2014.
If you haven't already given a presentation to your club on working the easy birds, I am available. Just send me an email message.
Clint Bradford K6LCS (909) 999-SATS _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of
the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org . AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the
author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (2)
-
David Swanson -
Robert Bruninga