Re: [amsat-bb] Satellite Hiatus--Doppler.SQF
Hello, I have added the following hints to the FAQs file http://www.dk1tb.de/FAQ_e.htm (sect. 5s at the end of the file):
s. Use of different Kepler data files with different satellite names
The various Kepler data files (source files) often use different names for the same satellite. This is e.g. the case with some of those contained in the AMSAT file nasa.all on the one hand and the Celestrak files (amateur.txt, cubesat.txt etc.) on the other. This can lead to a satellite or its frequencies not being displayed when the source file is changed although the file contains data for the relevant satellite.
A solution to the problem is an entry for the satellite in the auxiliary file AmsatNames.txt. The file already contains a list with the identifiers (catalog numbers) of the satellites important for radio amateurs and the assigned satellite names and instructions on how to make the entry.
The names from a source file, e.g. nasa.all, or even self-made ones can be used as names. They should of course be as memorable as possible (that's why the 5-digit identifier itself is not suitable as a name, although that would be possible).
With the option 'Use Amsat Names if Available' the program then uses the assigned name with all source files, regardless of a different name in the source file. It is displayed in SatPC32 and can be used in all data files that require a satellite name such as Doppler.SQF, Prior.SQF, SubTone.SQF or Squint.SQF. This means that all source files containing data for the satellite can be used.
From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Erich Eichmann via AMSAT-BB
Hello, I have added the following hints to the FAQs file http://www.dk1tb.de/FAQ_e.htm (sect. 5s at the end of the file):
s. Use of different Kepler data files with different satellite namesThank you very much, Erich!
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
Let me chime in on this as this strikes a nerve with me, a d if I offend you, my apologies but I think it needs to be said as a new user.
I work in the retail industry for Ham Radio (most know what I do).
I talk to customers all day long and they come from all walks of life and all education levels. Most new hams do not have the technical background they some of us have and they need some very basic information and mentoring to get over the hump. This is a confusing hobby for new hams. AMSAT has not been good at helping out very new users. They want to have fun and actually communicate as well they do want to understand.
Some learn well from reading. Some from Videos and some from 1 on 1 coaching on the phone so they can ask questions.
I will be the first to admit that getting started with SATpc32 for a new operator is difficult. I spent a few weeks at it and nothing phases me in technology and integration. This is why I did the intro video on YouTube on how to navigate the GUI that I have received LOTS of emails on and how it get them out of 1st gear. Oh, and I searched YouTube before I did the video and everything I saw assumed you knew how to drive SATpc32. So, I do the video and all I get is slammed by AMSAT members for assuming I did not having a licensed copy. What a friendly bunch.
I was about a day from selling a new IC-9700, rotators, ERC controller and antennas. Why would I want to be part of a group that didn't really want to help. No wonder the hobby is dying.
Don't get me wrong, it is an amazing piece of software and it does what it does amazingly. My rant is not about the software it is about those that don't like the simple questions.
Yes, it is a technical hobby but hams new to this part of the hobby do not understand the terms and how it affects the operation of trying to make a QSO.
Updating for a new satellite is not easily understood and despite all the instructions that people tossed at me, none worked to get RS44 functional when it came out. And, yes, I read the manual. A LOT. The manual expects you to be a seasoned and educated Satellite operator.
For those that spend some one on one time, I think you in advance for all your mentoring as I am sure many have benefitted from your contributions.
For those that say "RTFM" consider where you started and who helped you to get out of 1st gear. RTFM doesn't work for everyone. In fact, it has the opposite effect by scaring new members/operators away.
*** Remember, there is no stupid question. ***
Mike va3mw
Absolutely true. I too appreciate the complexity of the task that SatPC32 is trying to do well, But we do it and everyone that uses it a disservice to treat it as a sacred cow above suggestions for improvement. The concept of going to a text file and manually editing it to add a new satellite in a Windows program is 2020 is mind-boggling. That is certainly not any definition of user-friendly. While Erich tries to make it easy to find it by using the menus to open the text files, focusing on a decent editor rather than a new radio would be a boon to user the user experience.
No doubt I will be flamed immediately for daring to write this, and people are welcome to use a different program (MacDoppler,etc), let’s not jump all over a newer (and not so new) user for having the temerity to question if this is as good as it gets to manually edit text files. No doubt I will soon be banished to the realm of those that dare to criticize anything related to SatPC32, but let’s be honest.
Before I am accused of not thanking Erich for his donation of SatPC32, I do appreciate it. And while I could say think of all the new operators that would have a better experience if SatPC32 was just a little bit easier to use, I am also cognizant that adding new users may not be in the best interest of some—especially those that immediately jump upon any user for the first mistake they make (calling them a LID, bad mounting them on this reflector and social media, etc).
Go ahead..let me have it.
Regards,
Tom Schaefer, NY4I Blog: www.ny4i.com Madeira Beach, FL (Grid: EL87ot)
On Jun 8, 2020, at 4:18 PM, Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Let me chime in on this as this strikes a nerve with me, a d if I offend you, my apologies but I think it needs to be said as a new user.
I work in the retail industry for Ham Radio (most know what I do).
I talk to customers all day long and they come from all walks of life and all education levels. Most new hams do not have the technical background they some of us have and they need some very basic information and mentoring to get over the hump. This is a confusing hobby for new hams. AMSAT has not been good at helping out very new users. They want to have fun and actually communicate as well they do want to understand.
Some learn well from reading. Some from Videos and some from 1 on 1 coaching on the phone so they can ask questions.
I will be the first to admit that getting started with SATpc32 for a new operator is difficult. I spent a few weeks at it and nothing phases me in technology and integration. This is why I did the intro video on YouTube on how to navigate the GUI that I have received LOTS of emails on and how it get them out of 1st gear. Oh, and I searched YouTube before I did the video and everything I saw assumed you knew how to drive SATpc32. So, I do the video and all I get is slammed by AMSAT members for assuming I did not having a licensed copy. What a friendly bunch.
I was about a day from selling a new IC-9700, rotators, ERC controller and antennas. Why would I want to be part of a group that didn't really want to help. No wonder the hobby is dying.
Don't get me wrong, it is an amazing piece of software and it does what it does amazingly. My rant is not about the software it is about those that don't like the simple questions.
Yes, it is a technical hobby but hams new to this part of the hobby do not understand the terms and how it affects the operation of trying to make a QSO.
Updating for a new satellite is not easily understood and despite all the instructions that people tossed at me, none worked to get RS44 functional when it came out. And, yes, I read the manual. A LOT. The manual expects you to be a seasoned and educated Satellite operator.
For those that spend some one on one time, I think you in advance for all your mentoring as I am sure many have benefitted from your contributions.
For those that say "RTFM" consider where you started and who helped you to get out of 1st gear. RTFM doesn't work for everyone. In fact, it has the opposite effect by scaring new members/operators away.
*** Remember, there is no stupid question. ***
Mike va3mw
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I have paid for SatPC32 and am grateful for Erich and AMSAT for making it available to the sat community and for improving it regularly.
At the same time I find it could use many improvements. I have no problem editing text files but it is obviously not something everyone gets.
The question should be, what do we lose by having a way to edit that in the GUI?
I also find it counter intuitive in ways. For example, there are text box fields where you can put a cursor inside it and highlight the text, and this text is something you might want to adjust, but it is just for display.
Just checked the program to make sure my memory is correct. One example is Rotor Setup > Time Interval. Yes there are arrows to adjust it right next to it but why is it highlightable?
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Mon, Jun 8, 2020, 16:42 Thomas Schaefer via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Absolutely true. I too appreciate the complexity of the task that SatPC32 is trying to do well, But we do it and everyone that uses it a disservice to treat it as a sacred cow above suggestions for improvement. The concept of going to a text file and manually editing it to add a new satellite in a Windows program is 2020 is mind-boggling. That is certainly not any definition of user-friendly. While Erich tries to make it easy to find it by using the menus to open the text files, focusing on a decent editor rather than a new radio would be a boon to user the user experience.
No doubt I will be flamed immediately for daring to write this, and people are welcome to use a different program (MacDoppler,etc), let’s not jump all over a newer (and not so new) user for having the temerity to question if this is as good as it gets to manually edit text files. No doubt I will soon be banished to the realm of those that dare to criticize anything related to SatPC32, but let’s be honest.
Before I am accused of not thanking Erich for his donation of SatPC32, I do appreciate it. And while I could say think of all the new operators that would have a better experience if SatPC32 was just a little bit easier to use, I am also cognizant that adding new users may not be in the best interest of some—especially those that immediately jump upon any user for the first mistake they make (calling them a LID, bad mounting them on this reflector and social media, etc).
Go ahead..let me have it.
Regards,
Tom Schaefer, NY4I Blog: www.ny4i.com Madeira Beach, FL (Grid: EL87ot)
On Jun 8, 2020, at 4:18 PM, Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Let me chime in on this as this strikes a nerve with me, a d if I offend you, my apologies but I think it needs to be said as a new user.
I work in the retail industry for Ham Radio (most know what I do).
I talk to customers all day long and they come from all walks of life and all education levels. Most new hams do not have the technical
background
they some of us have and they need some very basic information and mentoring to get over the hump. This is a confusing hobby for new hams. AMSAT has not been good at helping out very new users. They want to have fun and actually communicate as well they do want to understand.
Some learn well from reading. Some from Videos and some from 1 on 1 coaching on the phone so they can ask questions.
I will be the first to admit that getting started with SATpc32 for a new operator is difficult. I spent a few weeks at it and nothing phases me
in
technology and integration. This is why I did the intro video on
YouTube
on how to navigate the GUI that I have received LOTS of emails on and how it get them out of 1st gear. Oh, and I searched YouTube before I did the video and everything I saw assumed you knew how to drive SATpc32. So, I do the video and all I get is slammed by AMSAT members for assuming I did not having a licensed copy. What a friendly bunch.
I was about a day from selling a new IC-9700, rotators, ERC controller
and
antennas. Why would I want to be part of a group that didn't really want to help. No wonder the hobby is dying.
Don't get me wrong, it is an amazing piece of software and it does what
it
does amazingly. My rant is not about the software it is about those that don't like the simple questions.
Yes, it is a technical hobby but hams new to this part of the hobby do
not
understand the terms and how it affects the operation of trying to make a QSO.
Updating for a new satellite is not easily understood and despite all the instructions that people tossed at me, none worked to get RS44 functional when it came out. And, yes, I read the manual. A LOT. The manual
expects
you to be a seasoned and educated Satellite operator.
For those that spend some one on one time, I think you in advance for all your mentoring as I am sure many have benefitted from your contributions.
For those that say "RTFM" consider where you started and who helped you
to
get out of 1st gear. RTFM doesn't work for everyone. In fact, it has the opposite effect by scaring new members/operators away.
*** Remember, there is no stupid question. ***
Mike va3mw
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Michael, Thanks for sharing your experience.
What a friendly bunch.
No wonder the hobby is dying.
No doubt we have all encountered the "satellite police" or "aprs monsters" or whatever they have been labelled recently. I feel concerned that some border on the line of a cyber-bullies.
In contrast, the HRO store in Anaheim, California near where I live once gave away bumper stickers that read:
"HAM RADIO - PEOPLE HELPING PEOPLE"
And, that has been the attraction to the hobby for many people.
I wish someone at AMSAT would step up and provide leadership on how to serve, teach, and encourage the new users while also admonishing the bullies. There have been times I have felt concerned introducing Boy Scouts to the Satellite side of Ham Radio concerned they will encounter abusive people on air or online in forums.
This is a super interesting hobby with many opportunities for education and growth. But, the hobby is kinda killing itself from within. Perhaps there are only a handful of rotten apples - but they tend to be the ones that make the lasting impressions.
Congratulations on producing YouTube videos for beginners. Keep up the good work!!!
Sincerely, Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://www.aprsat.com/predict . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club%C2%A0 . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
Silly Joke: "The beatings will continue until moral improves". On Monday, June 8, 2020, 01:21:46 PM PDT, Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Let me chime in on this as this strikes a nerve with me, a d if I offend you, my apologies but I think it needs to be said as a new user.
I work in the retail industry for Ham Radio (most know what I do).
I talk to customers all day long and they come from all walks of life and all education levels. Most new hams do not have the technical background they some of us have and they need some very basic information and mentoring to get over the hump. This is a confusing hobby for new hams. AMSAT has not been good at helping out very new users. They want to have fun and actually communicate as well they do want to understand.
Some learn well from reading. Some from Videos and some from 1 on 1 coaching on the phone so they can ask questions.
I will be the first to admit that getting started with SATpc32 for a new operator is difficult. I spent a few weeks at it and nothing phases me in technology and integration. This is why I did the intro video on YouTube on how to navigate the GUI that I have received LOTS of emails on and how it get them out of 1st gear. Oh, and I searched YouTube before I did the video and everything I saw assumed you knew how to drive SATpc32. So, I do the video and all I get is slammed by AMSAT members for assuming I did not having a licensed copy. What a friendly bunch.
I was about a day from selling a new IC-9700, rotators, ERC controller and antennas. Why would I want to be part of a group that didn't really want to help. No wonder the hobby is dying.
Don't get me wrong, it is an amazing piece of software and it does what it does amazingly. My rant is not about the software it is about those that don't like the simple questions.
Yes, it is a technical hobby but hams new to this part of the hobby do not understand the terms and how it affects the operation of trying to make a QSO.
Updating for a new satellite is not easily understood and despite all the instructions that people tossed at me, none worked to get RS44 functional when it came out. And, yes, I read the manual. A LOT. The manual expects you to be a seasoned and educated Satellite operator.
For those that spend some one on one time, I think you in advance for all your mentoring as I am sure many have benefitted from your contributions.
For those that say "RTFM" consider where you started and who helped you to get out of 1st gear. RTFM doesn't work for everyone. In fact, it has the opposite effect by scaring new members/operators away.
*** Remember, there is no stupid question. ***
Mike va3mw
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 06/08/20 16:13, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB wrote:
I wish someone at AMSAT would step up and provide leadership on how to serve, teach, and encourage the new users while also admonishing the bullies.
Robert,
You could be that "someone", except that I'd leave off the "admonishing" part. Bullies get bored when there is no reaction from their target.
AMSAT needs volunteers like you to help the next generation of satellite operators get started! It is easy to say "someone should", instead of "I will".
Be the change you wish to see in the world, even if Ghandi didn't say it. :-)
--- Zach N0ZGO
OP - please don’t leave!
I believe mentors do exist. Some that come to mind are WD9EWK, KK4YEL, KO4MA, NR0Q, KC7JPC, W3ARD, N4DCW, KE8FZT, N5LEX, KE9AJ, W9TWJ and a bunch others who have helped ME since getting started in December 2019.
On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 6:14 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
On 06/08/20 16:13, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB wrote:
I wish someone at AMSAT would step up and provide leadership on how to
serve, teach, and encourage the new users while also admonishing the bullies.
Robert,
You could be that "someone", except that I'd leave off the "admonishing" part. Bullies get bored when there is no reaction from their target.
AMSAT needs volunteers like you to help the next generation of satellite operators get started! It is easy to say "someone should", instead of "I will".
Be the change you wish to see in the world, even if Ghandi didn't say it. :-)
--- Zach N0ZGO _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Mike,
Good points. Let me offer an expanded view on the situation, and a thought on perhaps a way forward.
I think part of the issue is that the hobby we call "amateur radio" has continued to expand in multiple directions (which is an incredibly good thing), yet the structure of the formal education and support (think license preparation and testing) has either not changed or has shrunk (elimination of Morse code). We have a 1-dimensional solution to a 2-dimensional problem. We fortunately have a pretty strong tradition of Elmering, and with the technology of the Internet, many ways to deliver it beyond the traditional radio club, but that's perhaps a bit too unstructured for many. As a result, they either give up, sit there paralyzed and bewildered, or just stay within a narrow comfort zone.
To be fair, that narrow comfort zone might be all some ever want to do with the hobby, and that's fine. But my expectation is that there are many more who would pursue various areas if there was a little more support (structure) in getting there. Even the awareness that such disciplines and modes exist is pretty random.
My thought... Many of the lanes of interest have industry or a significant nexus of organizational backing (Satellite communications, emergency services, QRP operating, Digital Voice, even Morse Code). Would it work if these organizations created study guides and a formal certification process by which licensed operators could get additional recognition, which they could attach to their signature / call sign / etc. Think "CCNP" for network engineering , "PMP" for project management, or the "Salad Bar" that honors a military uniform.
While it could get to be a little "snobbish" if taken too far, the visibility and formality of such a series of certifications might create the second dimension in advancement that our licensing structure currently lacks. In doing so, it could provide the framework to build on the tradition of Elmering that is at the core of our hobby, and answer your challenge of how to mentor new satellite operators.
Just a thought.
Greg KO6TH
Michael Walker via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Let me chime in on this as this strikes a nerve with me, a d if I offend you, my apologies but I think it needs to be said as a new user.
I work in the retail industry for Ham Radio (most know what I do).
I talk to customers all day long and they come from all walks of life and all education levels. Most new hams do not have the technical background they some of us have and they need some very basic information and mentoring to get over the hump. This is a confusing hobby for new hams. AMSAT has not been good at helping out very new users. They want to have fun and actually communicate as well they do want to understand.
Some learn well from reading. Some from Videos and some from 1 on 1 coaching on the phone so they can ask questions.
I will be the first to admit that getting started with SATpc32 for a new operator is difficult. I spent a few weeks at it and nothing phases me in technology and integration. This is why I did the intro video on YouTube on how to navigate the GUI that I have received LOTS of emails on and how it get them out of 1st gear. Oh, and I searched YouTube before I did the video and everything I saw assumed you knew how to drive SATpc32. So, I do the video and all I get is slammed by AMSAT members for assuming I did not having a licensed copy. What a friendly bunch.
I was about a day from selling a new IC-9700, rotators, ERC controller and antennas. Why would I want to be part of a group that didn't really want to help. No wonder the hobby is dying.
Don't get me wrong, it is an amazing piece of software and it does what it does amazingly. My rant is not about 955 ROUNDSTONE DR GALT, CA 95632the software it is about those that don't like the simple questions.
Yes, it is a technical hobby but hams new to this part of the hobby do not understand the terms and how it affects the operation of trying to make a QSO.
Updating for a new satellite is not easily understood and despite all the instructions that people tossed at me, none worked to get RS44 functional when it came out. And, yes, I read the manual. A LOT. The manual expects you to be a seasoned and educated Satellite operator.
For those that spend some one on one time, I think you in advance for all your mentoring as I am sure many have benefitted from your contributions.
For those that say "RTFM" consider where you started and who helped you to get out of 1st gear. RTFM doesn't work for everyone. In fact, it has the opposite effect by scaring new members/operators away.
*** Remember, there is no stupid question. ***
Mike va3mw
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (9)
-
Brian Wilkins KO4AQF -
Devin L. Ganger -
Erich Eichmann -
Greg D -
John Brier -
Michael Walker -
Robert MacHale -
Thomas Schaefer -
Zach Metzinger