Re: Considerate satellite operations behavior.
This is and will be an ongoing problem until the powers to be at amsat do something about the mess on the FM birds . Tom you are preaching to the choir here because most of the offenders have no idea that this BBS is here. If the FCC stopped long enough to monitor this madness, they would likely have Amsat shut it down. BUT it is our job to police the ham bands.I guess that might mean we need to write down the bird,call sign ,date ,mode, and time and try to contact the offender and explain to the operator the trouble they are causing and offer them some advice on how to operate on the birds. Amsat wants users and needs members but this madness has to be corrected. I would not do a satallite demo any where and let people hear the mess that is ever present now and even worse on the weekends. Amsat needs to address this issue and offer a solution before the responsible operators givenup and quite dealing with the birds. Thats my 2 cents worth AGAIN WA4HFN Damon EM55 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Schuessler" tjschuessler@verizon.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:29:20 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Considerate satellite operations behavior.
Hi all,
I do not have the dollars yet to upgrade to an all mode radio to be able to do SSB/CW operations so FM is my lot for now. I love early mornings on AO-51 and later in the evening SO-50 and SO-67 when available because the roar of the crowd is significantly less. That being said, I like to give AO-51 or AO-27 a try once in a while in the afternoons to make a few Qs but find myself more often than not put off by the sheer mess found there. Only been doing this for 8 months with 260 QSOs on an irregular schedule so maybe I am out of line here, but I will throw out some observations anyway.
The for me 2210Z 20-Feb, 2011 pass was a typical example of what makes this part of the hobby hard to promote. I know that many of you are conscientious operators and do not try stomp on others but there are some out there who just don't seem to understand that there is a proper way to do this that will maximize the number of QSOs that actually get completed on a given pass.
I don't know how many times I heard someone call another station but when that second station answers, somebody else comes right on top and obliterates the poor guy with a totally unrelated call. I have had a station call me back only to have his exchange blown out of the water by somebody else who is apparently not listening to the fact that several seconds of an exchange has already occurred.
I am sure I was the cause of some interference this afternoon attempting to jump in after an exchange to get my call out there. I try however, if it appears that I with my 5W handheld and Arrow, are not making it through the current pileup, will wait 3 or 4 minutes until the pass has progressed some and try it again. Yes I know it is FM and I should not expect better but honestly I know it can be. Several times I heard a weak voice that sounded like a youth trying to get in but nobody paused enough to give the poor kid a shot. I made three Qs that pass but the kid got none and probably walked away thinking he had just wasted his time.
I will be at a hamfest in a few weeks and plan to do a few demonstrations of FM satellite work with my Arrow there and know that many folks will just wag their heads and decide to never try at all because of the noise and disorganization.
Another issue I hear is stations calling but not apparently hearing anything but they continue to call anyway and cause interference. A recent SO-50 pass in the evening had 6 or seven stations calling but only one or two QSOs actually took place as nobody seemed to be listening to the right frequencies. I would request that the person who keeps up with the Satellite status pages on the AMSAT web site please post the reality the SO-50 downlink is really about 5Khz lower than the published 436.795. If that were really the case, than I should always be starting a pass on my handeld at 436.805 but if I go there, I hear nothing much and always end the pass way down at 436.780 instead of .785. Since we always recommend that new operators look to AMSAT.org for their basic information, it needs to be kept current. If the information is wrong then people have to go through the trial and error method to find out the truth.
Hopefully these remarks will not offend but will serve to spur us all to improve the way we do things so others can too have a shot at making contacts.
Tom Schuessler 2713 Lake Gardens Drive Irving, Texas 75060 972-986-7456 214-403-1464 (Cell) n5hyp@arrl.net
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Okay, this one perplexes me--what in the world can the "powers to be at amsat" do to fix this? About the only thing I can imagine is AMSAT helping with education on appropriate behavior, etiquette (following good operating practice and rules!).
That being said--eclipses are getting shorter and nearly gone. With that we will be announcing a change in the operating modes for AO-51, so things will at least change in the next few days.
It's up the operators to determine if things get better or worse...not "the powers that be at AMSAT."
WE ARE AMSAT :)
Mark N8MH
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:41 AM, wa4hfn@comcast.net wrote:
This is and will be an ongoing problem until the powers to be at amsat do something about the mess on the FM birds . Tom you are preaching to the choir here because most of the offenders have no idea that this BBS is here. If the FCC stopped long enough to monitor this madness, they would likely have Amsat shut it down. BUT it is our job to police the ham bands.I guess that might mean we need to write down the bird,call sign ,date ,mode, and time and try to contact the offender and explain to the operator the trouble they are causing and offer them some advice on how to operate on the birds. Amsat wants users and needs members but this madness has to be corrected. I would not do a satallite demo any where and let people hear the mess that is ever present now and even worse on the weekends. Amsat needs to address this issue and offer a solution before the responsible operators givenup and quite dealing with the birds. Thats my 2 cents worth AGAIN WA4HFN Damon EM55 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Schuessler" tjschuessler@verizon.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:29:20 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Considerate satellite operations behavior.
Hi all,
I do not have the dollars yet to upgrade to an all mode radio to be able to do SSB/CW operations so FM is my lot for now. I love early mornings on AO-51 and later in the evening SO-50 and SO-67 when available because the roar of the crowd is significantly less. That being said, I like to give AO-51 or AO-27 a try once in a while in the afternoons to make a few Qs but find myself more often than not put off by the sheer mess found there. Only been doing this for 8 months with 260 QSOs on an irregular schedule so maybe I am out of line here, but I will throw out some observations anyway.
The for me 2210Z 20-Feb, 2011 pass was a typical example of what makes this part of the hobby hard to promote. I know that many of you are conscientious operators and do not try stomp on others but there are some out there who just don't seem to understand that there is a proper way to do this that will maximize the number of QSOs that actually get completed on a given pass.
I don't know how many times I heard someone call another station but when that second station answers, somebody else comes right on top and obliterates the poor guy with a totally unrelated call. I have had a station call me back only to have his exchange blown out of the water by somebody else who is apparently not listening to the fact that several seconds of an exchange has already occurred.
I am sure I was the cause of some interference this afternoon attempting to jump in after an exchange to get my call out there. I try however, if it appears that I with my 5W handheld and Arrow, are not making it through the current pileup, will wait 3 or 4 minutes until the pass has progressed some and try it again. Yes I know it is FM and I should not expect better but honestly I know it can be. Several times I heard a weak voice that sounded like a youth trying to get in but nobody paused enough to give the poor kid a shot. I made three Qs that pass but the kid got none and probably walked away thinking he had just wasted his time.
I will be at a hamfest in a few weeks and plan to do a few demonstrations of FM satellite work with my Arrow there and know that many folks will just wag their heads and decide to never try at all because of the noise and disorganization.
Another issue I hear is stations calling but not apparently hearing anything but they continue to call anyway and cause interference. A recent SO-50 pass in the evening had 6 or seven stations calling but only one or two QSOs actually took place as nobody seemed to be listening to the right frequencies. I would request that the person who keeps up with the Satellite status pages on the AMSAT web site please post the reality the SO-50 downlink is really about 5Khz lower than the published 436.795. If that were really the case, than I should always be starting a pass on my handeld at 436.805 but if I go there, I hear nothing much and always end the pass way down at 436.780 instead of .785. Since we always recommend that new operators look to AMSAT.org for their basic information, it needs to be kept current. If the information is wrong then people have to go through the trial and error method to find out the truth.
Hopefully these remarks will not offend but will serve to spur us all to improve the way we do things so others can too have a shot at making contacts.
Tom Schuessler 2713 Lake Gardens Drive Irving, Texas 75060 972-986-7456 214-403-1464 (Cell) n5hyp@arrl.net
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Agree... There is only a handful of AMSAT people, however, many more operators actually using the Sats can be more helpful. Dee, NB2F Think before pushing the PTT button. -----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Mark L. Hammond Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 10:46 AM To: wa4hfn@comcast.net Cc: AMSAT; Tom Schuessler Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Considerate satellite operations behavior.
Okay, this one perplexes me--what in the world can the "powers to be at amsat" do to fix this? About the only thing I can imagine is AMSAT helping with education on appropriate behavior, etiquette (following good operating practice and rules!).
That being said--eclipses are getting shorter and nearly gone. With that we will be announcing a change in the operating modes for AO-51, so things will at least change in the next few days.
It's up the operators to determine if things get better or worse...not "the powers that be at AMSAT."
WE ARE AMSAT :)
Mark N8MH
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:41 AM, wa4hfn@comcast.net wrote:
This is and will be an ongoing problem until the powers to be at amsat do something about the mess on the FM birds . Tom you are preaching to the choir here because most of the offenders have no idea
that this BBS is here.
If the FCC stopped long enough to monitor this madness, they would likely have Amsat shut it down. BUT it is our job to police the ham bands.I guess that might mean we need to write down the bird,call sign ,date ,mode, and time and try to contact the offender and explain to the operator the trouble they are causing and offer them some advice on
how to operate on the birds.
Amsat wants users and needs members but this madness has to be corrected. I would not do a satallite demo any where and let people hear the mess that is ever present now and even worse on the weekends. Amsat needs to address this issue and offer a solution before the responsible operators givenup and quite dealing with the birds. Thats my 2 cents worth AGAIN WA4HFN Damon EM55 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Schuessler" tjschuessler@verizon.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:29:20 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Considerate satellite operations behavior.
Hi all,
I do not have the dollars yet to upgrade to an all mode radio to be able to do SSB/CW operations so FM is my lot for now. I love early mornings on AO-51 and later in the evening SO-50 and SO-67 when available because the roar of the crowd is significantly less. That being said, I like to give AO-51 or AO-27 a try once in a while in the afternoons to make a few Qs but find myself more often than not put off by the sheer mess found
there.
Only been doing this for 8 months with 260 QSOs on an irregular schedule so maybe I am out of line here, but I will throw out some observations anyway.
The for me 2210Z 20-Feb, 2011 pass was a typical example of what makes this part of the hobby hard to promote. I know that many of you are conscientious operators and do not try stomp on others but there are some out there who just don't seem to understand that there is a proper way to do this that will maximize the number of QSOs that actually get completed on a given pass.
I don't know how many times I heard someone call another station but when that second station answers, somebody else comes right on top and obliterates the poor guy with a totally unrelated call. I have had a station call me back only to have his exchange blown out of the water by somebody else who is apparently not listening to the fact that several seconds of an exchange has already occurred.
I am sure I was the cause of some interference this afternoon attempting to jump in after an exchange to get my call out there. I try however, if it appears that I with my 5W handheld and Arrow, are not making it through the current pileup, will wait 3 or 4 minutes until the pass has progressed some and try it again. Yes I know it is FM and I should not expect better but honestly I know it can be. Several times I heard a weak voice that sounded like a youth trying to get in but nobody paused enough to give the poor kid a shot. I made three Qs that pass but the kid got none and probably walked away thinking
he had just wasted his time.
I will be at a hamfest in a few weeks and plan to do a few demonstrations of FM satellite work with my Arrow there and know that many folks will just wag their heads and decide to never try at all because of the noise and disorganization.
Another issue I hear is stations calling but not apparently hearing anything but they continue to call anyway and cause interference. A recent SO-50 pass in the evening had 6 or seven stations calling but only one or two QSOs actually took place as nobody seemed to be listening to the right frequencies. I would request that the person who keeps up with the Satellite status pages on the AMSAT web site please post the reality the SO-50 downlink is really about 5Khz lower than the published 436.795. If that were really the case, than I should always be starting a pass on my handeld at 436.805 but if I go there, I hear nothing much and always end the pass way down at 436.780 instead of .785. Since we always recommend that new operators look to AMSAT.org for their basic information, it needs to be kept current. If the information is wrong then people have to go through the trial and error method to find out the truth.
Hopefully these remarks will not offend but will serve to spur us all to improve the way we do things so others can too have a shot at making contacts.
Tom Schuessler 2713 Lake Gardens Drive Irving, Texas 75060 972-986-7456 214-403-1464 (Cell) n5hyp@arrl.net
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Seems to me that the "Control Operators" need to step in and shut down the sat if the situation gets bad enough on a given pass. No control appears to be the main problem these days. Operate the sats like a NET - request your contact through Net Control. That will give the "regulars" something constructive to do and control the chaos.
Where are the OO's ????
73, Jeff Moore -- KE7ACY CN94
----- Original Message ----- From: wa4hfn@comcast.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Considerate satellite operations behavior.
This is and will be an ongoing problem until the powers to be at amsat do something about the mess on the FM birds . Tom you are preaching to the choir here because most of the offenders have no idea that this BBS is here. If the FCC stopped long enough to monitor this madness, they would likely have Amsat shut it down. BUT it is our job to police the ham bands.I guess that might mean we need to write down the bird,call sign ,date ,mode, and time and try to contact the offender and explain to the operator the trouble they are causing and offer them some advice on how to operate on the birds. Amsat wants users and needs members but this madness has to be corrected. I would not do a satallite demo any where and let people hear the mess that is ever present now and even worse on the weekends. Amsat needs to address this issue and offer a solution before the responsible operators givenup and quite dealing with the birds. Thats my 2 cents worth AGAIN WA4HFN Damon EM55 ----- Original Message -----From: "Tom Schuessler" tjschuessler@verizon.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Considerate satellite operations behavior.
Thats my 2 cents worth AGAIN WA4HFN Damon EM55
I've worked the fm birds and listen to them, even in Africa (well just listened so far) and I am really not sure what people are expecting is going to happen on a single channel device that has a comparatively low access threshold (meaning lots of people can work it) and apparently "enjoy" working it.
Put another way...I dont see how things change or even what they would change to given the technology.
A while back someone likened the FM birds to a DX situation and thats probably not all that bad. In a way the people who are "good" at getting contacts on those birds (even with high power) are "good"...they have the right equipment, they know what "works" and can make it "work" and its "their cup of tea". It is not mine but as long as folks are building and flying FM single channel birds I suspect this is what it is going to be like...and my theory is "have fun".
My argument with AMSAT and others is that the organization should be leading by pushing more linear devices AND birds with larger footprints. Where I think things got off track badly was with the notion of AO-40...the theory that we had to build a satellite that people could work "worldwide" with not much antenna and other equipment. Oscar 10 and 13 (along with Arsene) in my view is about the baseline satellite that AMSAT should be building and trying to lead the satellite movement. As long as "baseline" satellite access is a handitalkie with a long whip...we are not going to see much different in my view nor should we expect it
Robert G. Oler WB5MZO life member Amsat/Arrl/NARS 5Nsomething soon
This is exactly how I look at them-they are like a DX piluep. That sort of behavior occurs all of the time on HF, and you learn how to more effectively get through. There is very little way to change how operating is going to take place on a single channel FM satellite. That is what makes it challenging. If you got through all of the time, the challenge aspect would be gone, as would some of the excitement and fun.
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Rocky Jones orbitjet@hotmail.com wrote:
A while back someone likened the FM birds to a DX situation and thats probably not all that bad.
At 04:11 AM 2/22/2011, Rocky Jones wrote:
My argument with AMSAT and others is that the organization should be leading by pushing more linear devices AND birds with larger footprints. Where I think things got off track badly was with the notion of AO-40...the theory that we had to build a satellite that people could work "worldwide" with not much antenna and other equipment. Oscar 10 and 13 (along with Arsene) in my view is about the baseline satellite that AMSAT should be building and trying to lead the satellite movement. As long as "baseline" satellite access is a handitalkie with a long whip...we are not going to see much different in my view nor should we expect it
Linear birds are a good idea, and the idea of creating an "off the shelf" transponder package that university groups can install into their projects has been discussed here before, to help that end. larger footprints would be nice (and extremely useful in this part of the world), but the trick there is getting the launch opportunities at an affordable price, since it seems most affordable launch opportunities are to LEO. You can only place your bird where the ride takes you, unless you add propulsion, which means extra weight and complexity (meaning more cost, fewer launch opportunities and higher risk of failure, and most likely fewer birds).
One of these days, I'll have a crack at the linear birds we have. I have the gear, just have to get around to using it! :)
73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
participants (7)
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Dee -
Jeff Moore -
John Geiger -
Mark L. Hammond -
Rocky Jones -
Tony Langdon -
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