AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award #500
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
Hey Bruce (and all),
I would prefer that AMSAT issue awards numbered to represent the order in which they were received.
I believe doing otherwise to be inappropriate because it does not accurately reflect the true history of the award.
Is anyone aware of a precedent like this involving another award - that is, that No. XXX of an award may actually not represent the XXXth application received? Something about that just doesn't seem right to me.
I know that if I was submitting the 500th application - and, of course, only the awards administrator would know whether I actually WAS - I would be upset to learn that I would not be getting that 500th award - especially if someone who applied after me was awarded it.
One final queston - has the AMSAT Board blessed this? I'll definitely stand corrected if appropriate, but it occurs to me that any action that would alter in any way the official statistical record of an award should at least have board review, if not formal action of approval.
My apologies to anyone who's offended by my stated preference to maintain an accurate historical record.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL -------------- Original message from Bruce kk5do@arrl.net: --------------
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
--
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
ARRL Awards Manager (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on SkyScanner Satellite Radio Network on Galaxy-25 @97° West, Transponder 23 (12115 Vert), Symbol Rate: 22425, APID: 1794 (DVB Free To Air) Also streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News http://www.arrl.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I have to agree with Tim.
73 de Tim. K4SHF
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
-----Original Message----- From: n3tl@bellsouth.net
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:03:37 To: kk5do@arrl.net; amsat-bb@AMSAT.Orgamsat-bb@amsat.org Cc: Brucekk5do@arrl.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award #500
Hey Bruce (and all),
I would prefer that AMSAT issue awards numbered to represent the order in which they were received.
I believe doing otherwise to be inappropriate because it does not accurately reflect the true history of the award.
Is anyone aware of a precedent like this involving another award - that is, that No. XXX of an award may actually not represent the XXXth application received? Something about that just doesn't seem right to me.
I know that if I was submitting the 500th application - and, of course, only the awards administrator would know whether I actually WAS - I would be upset to learn that I would not be getting that 500th award - especially if someone who applied after me was awarded it.
One final queston - has the AMSAT Board blessed this? I'll definitely stand corrected if appropriate, but it occurs to me that any action that would alter in any way the official statistical record of an award should at least have board review, if not formal action of approval.
My apologies to anyone who's offended by my stated preference to maintain an accurate historical record.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL -------------- Original message from Bruce kk5do@arrl.net: --------------
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
--
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
ARRL Awards Manager (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on SkyScanner Satellite Radio Network on Galaxy-25 @97° West, Transponder 23 (12115 Vert), Symbol Rate: 22425, APID: 1794 (DVB Free To Air) Also streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News http://www.arrl.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I have to agree with Tim on this.
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:03, n3tl@bellsouth.net wrote:
Hey Bruce (and all),
I would prefer that AMSAT issue awards numbered to represent the order in which they were received.
I believe doing otherwise to be inappropriate because it does not accurately reflect the true history of the award.
Is anyone aware of a precedent like this involving another award - that is, that No. XXX of an award may actually not represent the XXXth application received? Something about that just doesn't seem right to me.
I know that if I was submitting the 500th application - and, of course, only the awards administrator would know whether I actually WAS - I would be upset to learn that I would not be getting that 500th award - especially if someone who applied after me was awarded it.
One final queston - has the AMSAT Board blessed this? I'll definitely stand corrected if appropriate, but it occurs to me that any action that would alter in any way the official statistical record of an award should at least have board review, if not formal action of approval.
My apologies to anyone who's offended by my stated preference to maintain an accurate historical record.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from Bruce kk5do@arrl.net:
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
--
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
ARRL Awards Manager (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on SkyScanner Satellite Radio Network on
Galaxy-25
@97° West, Transponder 23 (12115 Vert), Symbol Rate: 22425, APID: 1794 (DVB Free To
Air)
Also streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News http://www.arrl.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I also agree with Tim.
73, Dave
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message----- From: n3tl@bellsouth.net
Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 17:03:37 To: kk5do@arrl.net; amsat-bb@AMSAT.Orgamsat-bb@amsat.org Cc: Brucekk5do@arrl.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award #500
Hey Bruce (and all),
I would prefer that AMSAT issue awards numbered to represent the order in which they were received.
I believe doing otherwise to be inappropriate because it does not accurately reflect the true history of the award.
Is anyone aware of a precedent like this involving another award - that is, that No. XXX of an award may actually not represent the XXXth application received? Something about that just doesn't seem right to me.
I know that if I was submitting the 500th application - and, of course, only the awards administrator would know whether I actually WAS - I would be upset to learn that I would not be getting that 500th award - especially if someone who applied after me was awarded it.
One final queston - has the AMSAT Board blessed this? I'll definitely stand corrected if appropriate, but it occurs to me that any action that would alter in any way the official statistical record of an award should at least have board review, if not formal action of approval.
My apologies to anyone who's offended by my stated preference to maintain an accurate historical record.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL -------------- Original message from Bruce kk5do@arrl.net: --------------
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
--
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
ARRL Awards Manager (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on SkyScanner Satellite Radio Network on Galaxy-25 @97° West, Transponder 23 (12115 Vert), Symbol Rate: 22425, APID: 1794 (DVB Free To Air) Also streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News http://www.arrl.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I like the plan that Bruce came up with. It got me to check my cards and I found more than enough to apply for the award. And now I might have a one in 20 chance to get the number 500 on my award.
Thanks Bruce.... good idea.
Ernie W8EH
Bruce wrote:
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
I have to agree with Tim.
Ernie - You had a 1:10 chance before the drawing was implemented, if your application was submitted in time.
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:27 PM, Ernie w8eh.ernie@gmail.com wrote:
I like the plan that Bruce came up with. It got me to check my cards and I found more than enough to apply for the award. And now I might have a one in 20 chance to get the number 500 on my award.
Thanks Bruce.... good idea.
Ernie W8EH
Bruce wrote:
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
As VP of User Services, the team and I welcome input from the membership.
Bruce has been a long term Director of Contests and Awards. As far as I know there have been no questions about the order that the other 489 AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Awards have been assigned. Bruce has this position because he is reliable, makes good decisions and does all of the work. This is not a board level decision. As VP of User Services, which includes Contests and Awards, I have full confidence in Bruce's decision making. This clever idea generates interest and is fun. So award on Bruce.
73, Gould, WA4SXM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce" kk5do@arrl.net To: "amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:24 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award #500
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
Hey Gould ... and all,
Since I already have my award, maybe I shouldn't even have commented.
I stand by my earlier statement - any method of assigning awards other than in the order they were received eliminates any claim of historical accuracy to the award(s) in question.
We'll have to agree to disagree on supporting a decision that, for me, lessens the value of owning the award in question.
"Wow, you have Satellite Achievemnet Award No. 500. That's really cool to be the 500th person to get that award."
"Thanks. But I can't tell you I was the 500th person. I was somewhere between 490 and 510, but I won the drawing they held."
Please - somebody - help me to understand how that has any positive impact on the credibility of the award and/or the significance of award No. 500.
If this drawing is held, somebody also please help me to understand how any of us who have - or will have - the award will know with certainty that the number we receive represents the true order of application. Am I really the 473rd person whose application was received, reviewed and approved for the award?
I'm pleased that Ernie, W8EH, was moved by Bruce's post to check his cards and see that he qualified. Congratulations Ernie! Way to go.
Here, I am well over the number necessary for the Sexigesimal Award. I'm not nearly as inclined to apply for it now as I was 24 hours ago - if there's no REAL significance to the number on the award. That's what a "No. 500 Drawing" tells me ... that there is no REAL significance to the number on the award.
I'll apologize again if my preference to adhere to historical accuracy offends and/or irritates anyone. If this drawing is held, I believe that very act diminishes this particular award and AMSAT's awards program in general.
Thanks, too, Gould, for clarifying that this is not a Board decision. We'll have to agree to disagree that holding a drawing to determine the order of awards represents a good idea.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
-------------- Original message from "Gould Smith" gouldsmi@bellsouth.net: --------------
As VP of User Services, the team and I welcome input from the membership.
Bruce has been a long term Director of Contests and Awards. As far as I know there have been no questions about the order that the other 489 AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Awards have been assigned. Bruce has this position because he is reliable, makes good decisions and does all of the work. This is not a board level decision. As VP of User Services, which includes Contests and Awards, I have full confidence in Bruce's decision making. This clever idea generates interest and is fun. So award on Bruce.
73, Gould, WA4SXM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce" To: "amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org" Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 9:24 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award #500
I am ready to issue AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award number 490 today. What I am going to do so that a group of people have the opportunity of receiving number 500 is this....
The next 20 that submit for this award (including the one I just received) will be stacked in the order that they were submitted. After all 20 are here (numbers 490-509) I will have Mahana, W5BTS, select one of the call signs out of a hat. That person will receive certificate number 500. Everyone else will then get their certificate in the order they submitted. (Hmmmm... Mahana never submitted for this award, could she pull her own call?)
The lucky operator could be you. But only if you submit an application for the AMSAT Satellite Communications Achievement Award. This award is available to hams worldwide. You do not need to be a member of AMSAT. Rules for the award can be found at the AMSAT http://www.amsat.org Click on Contests and Awards in the left margin.
Scanned QSL cards emailed to me is the best way to submit for the award. JPG files are preferred. PDF and DOC files are fine just larger in size.
This might take a month or two depending on how quickly the submissions arrive so be patient as your certificate will not mail until the last one is received. I will let you know via email that I have received your submission. I will let everyone know when the 20 entries have been received and you will have no more than 3 days from then to make payment for the award at the AMSAT online store (payment may be made earlier if you desire). Lucky number 500 will be issued and all certificates will go in the mail.
73...bruce AMSAT Director Contest and Awards
--
Bruce Paige, KK5DO
AMSAT Director Contests and Awards
ARRL Awards Manager (WAS, 5BWAS, VUCC), VE
Houston AMSAT Net - Wed 0100z on SkyScanner Satellite Radio Network on Galaxy-25 @97° West, Transponder 23 (12115 Vert), Symbol Rate: 22425, APID: 1794 (DVB Free To Air) Also streaming MP3 athttp://www.amsatnet.com Podcast athttp://www.amsatnet.com/podcast.xml or iTunes
Latest satellite news on the ARRL Audio News http://www.arrl.org
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (8)
-
Bruce -
Dave Webb KB1PVH -
Ernie -
Gould Smith -
Kent Frazier -
n3tl＠bellsouth.net -
Tim Tapio -
Trey Brown