When you first start thinking about playing with the satallites there isn't that much information on the web. Most links are broken or refer to satellites that are long silent. Step back and look at the hobby from someone looking to get into it. You are not going to get home brewers if all the plans use parts no longer made and you are not going to get new satellite people if all of the info is for dead birds. 73
John KG4VHV
____________________________________________________________ Lose up to 20 lbs in one month with a new diet. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYbqNUytsnOVAfolnUsFf0P2...
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
73, Drew KO4MA
----- Original Message ----- From: acjohn1@juno.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:26 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] broken links
When you first start thinking about playing with the satallites there isn't that much information on the web. Most links are broken or refer to satellites that are long silent. Step back and look at the hobby from someone looking to get into it. You are not going to get home brewers if all the plans use parts no longer made and you are not going to get new satellite people if all of the info is for dead birds. 73
John KG4VHV
Lose up to 20 lbs in one month with a new diet. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYbqNUytsnOVAfolnUsFf0P2...
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The smart thing to do would be have a content manager software suite that ages pages and flags them
The smart thing to do would be have a system of reporting old pages.
---------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Rich Airways Technical Officer Grade 4 Surveillance - RADAR ADS-B Amateur Radio Callsign VK4TEC email: vk4tec@tech-software.net web: www.tech-software.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Glasbrenner" glasbrenner@mindspring.com To: acjohn1@juno.com; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 7:33 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
73, Drew KO4MA
----- Original Message ----- From: acjohn1@juno.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 5:26 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] broken links
When you first start thinking about playing with the satallites there isn't that much information on the web. Most links are broken or refer to satellites that are long silent. Step back and look at the hobby from someone looking to get into it. You are not going to get home brewers if all the plans use parts no longer made and you are not going to get new satellite people if all of the info is for dead birds. 73
John KG4VHV
Lose up to 20 lbs in one month with a new diet. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYbqNUytsnOVAfolnUsFf0P2...
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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The smart thing to do would be have a content manager software suite that ages pages and flags them
The smart thing to do would be have a system of reporting old pages.
Are you volunteering?
73, Drew KO4MA
The problem is that the volunteer function on the website hasn't been working for some time.
I tried several times to volunteer in areas that I have expertise and the system would not take the information. Finally, I gave up.
Glen, K9STH AMSAT 239/LM 463
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
The problem is that the volunteer function on the website hasn't been working for some time.
I tried several times to volunteer in areas that I have expertise and the system would not take the information. Finally, I gave up.
Glen, K9STH AMSAT 239/LM 463
Don't let a broken link stop you. The ad in the Journal, and in several ANS bulletins, asks prospective volunteers to email Gould, WA4SXM at wa4sxm@amsat.org.
I agree that whole busted survey needs to be removed until fixed.
73, Drew KO4MA
I first started in amateur satellites back in the late '90's (I am just now getting my station back in working order after a long hiatus). You should have seen the webpage then. Today's is leaps and bounds ahead of the old one. As a matter-of-fact, I think you can peruse the old webpage here: http://www.amsat.org/amsat/AmsatHomeOld.html.
I got lots more information from the BB and from ANS. I would look at the ANS and figure out what birds I wanted to work, then I would go to the BB and ask questions. I also found that I learned a lot more if I just investigated for myself on a lot of stuff. I read articles in QST and the AMSAT Journal. Wow, there is still a plethora of information available. You can even go to the archived BB articles on the old webpage (maybe the new one too, I didn't dig that deeply).
I would be more than happy to Elmer someone in the West Alabama area or even via email, but I'm afraid I may have as many questions as the person I'm Elmering. When I got started there was a guy here who was willing to Elmer me, but I wanted to "do it myself." Granted, not everyone wants to "do it myself."
Someone mentioned starting an AMSAT wiki. I think that would be a great idea, but I am not sure how to go about starting something like that. However, I'd be willing to contribute to something like that.
Short version, information is still out there, you just have to be willing to dig through the gorilla dust to get to it.
73, Joel, W4JBB
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Glen Zook gzook@yahoo.com wrote:
The problem is that the volunteer function on the website hasn't been working for some time.
I tried several times to volunteer in areas that I have expertise and the system would not take the information. Finally, I gave up.
Glen, K9STH AMSAT 239/LM 463
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4 of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer a Wiki on another server.
We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now. Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be the registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of any former code whacker to modify or update.
We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be available for updating a la Wiki.
I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
73, Alan VE4YZ EN19kv AMSAT LM 2352 http://www.wincube.ca
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Alan,
Not sure what I can do, but I'll give a hand where I can.
73, Joel/W4JBB
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Alan VE4YZ ve4yz@mts.net wrote:
IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4 of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer a Wiki on another server.
We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now. Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be the registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of any former code whacker to modify or update.
We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be available for updating a la Wiki.
I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
73, Alan VE4YZ EN19kv AMSAT LM 2352 http://www.wincube.ca
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I can help with the website, too, and would be happy to be part of a team. My offer to volunteer went to Gould just a few days ago and he may not have had an opportunity to consider it yet.
I've kept my disappointment with the current site to myself, knowing that I cannot volunteer to be a standalone AMSAT webmaster. But like several others writing today, I am willing to take on part of the job. If the BOD needs a single responsible point of contact, it would be up to that person (if he or she exists) to decide if it's going to be a solo or shared effort.
The wiki approach sounds reasonable and wouldn't need to be hosted elsewhere. I don't know why we couldn't simply set up a subdomain at the current host(wiki.amsat.org?) and get the job started this week. It's also possible the site can be improved as currently structured, simply through intense attention to content.
73, Scott N1AIA
Hello Scott,
I have not received any email from you from this address. The only posts I have were sent to the BB.
73, Gould ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Richardson" scott@aves-specta.com To: "Joel Black" jbblack68@gmail.com; "Alan VE4YZ" ve4yz@mts.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 8:08 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
I can help with the website, too, and would be happy to be part of a team. My offer to volunteer went to Gould just a few days ago and he may not have had an opportunity to consider it yet.
I've kept my disappointment with the current site to myself, knowing that I cannot volunteer to be a standalone AMSAT webmaster. But like several others writing today, I am willing to take on part of the job. If the BOD needs a single responsible point of contact, it would be up to that person (if he or she exists) to decide if it's going to be a solo or shared effort.
The wiki approach sounds reasonable and wouldn't need to be hosted elsewhere. I don't know why we couldn't simply set up a subdomain at the current host(wiki.amsat.org?) and get the job started this week. It's also possible the site can be improved as currently structured, simply through intense attention to content.
73, Scott N1AIA
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dang Alan...Sounds like a good suggestion. Finally....positive inputs.
Starting from the ground up with a "team" around the world able to contribute and maintain and by golly we might have something.
Alan, I'd like you to be the focal/contact point for all you folks out there that can contribute to getting traction on your idea. Give it a little time to see how the idea works out and I'd be very happen to run the resulting proposal to the Board. Remember - the annual Board meeting is just a month away.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
Alan VE4YZ wrote:
IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4 of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer a Wiki on another server.
We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now. Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be the registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of any former code whacker to modify or update.
We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be available for updating a la Wiki.
I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
73, Alan VE4YZ EN19kv AMSAT LM 2352 http://www.wincube.ca
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I have setup about 13 or 14 internal wiki's for IT companies and private company's here in Ontario, Canada, the past 4 years and I can tell you that it does work. Compared to html/php sites, it is a low effort solution, after the initial setup. Everyone gets involved, everyone helps keep it up-to-date and makes sure that the info posted is proper.
It shouldn't take long for the current sat and other amateur radio info to be migrated in, with everyones help. After that, it's all down hill. Like I said, the hardest part is the initial setup, and coming up with the universal format, which doesn't take long with the meeting of the minds.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:38:30 -0400, Alan VE4YZ ve4yz@mts.net wrote:
IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4 of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer a Wiki on another server.
We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now. Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be the registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of any former code whacker to modify or update.
We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be available for updating a la Wiki.
I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
73, Alan VE4YZ EN19kv AMSAT LM 2352 http://www.wincube.ca
Alan and all,
Here's my 2 cents' worth - coming from someone who admittedly knows very little about the tools, skills and resources necessary to develop and maintain a Web site.
Alan, you write: "It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site."
How does the AMSAT store fit into this, and is it possible to "mix" a wiki-style "access for all" site with one that will include areas for the entry and transfer of secure, private information (e.g., credit card information for purchases)?
I ask this because I don't know of another major nonprofit that uses a wiki-style site because of the need to incorporate an ecommerce site as part of the overall Web presence.
My initial reaction to a Wiki approach is - no - for those reasons.
I hope someone can provide more information here to me and everyone who reads the BB that might help mitigate my concerns. I further hope someone who is truly interested in mitigating the issues seemingly so many here have with the AMSAT Web site will attend the Board meeting in October to continue this kind of dialogue with the Board.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
________________________________ From: Alan VE4YZ ve4yz@mts.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 7:38:30 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4 of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer a Wiki on another server.
We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now. Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be the registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of any former code whacker to modify or update.
We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be available for updating a la Wiki.
I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
73, Alan VE4YZ EN19kv AMSAT LM 2352 http://www.wincube.ca
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The Wiki, should only be used for the info only, not for e-commerce. The stores/e-commerce should be kept separate from the info/wiki for obvious reasons (i.e. security, backup). Only a selected few should have access and update the store/e-commerce section of the site. Links and modules can be created to draw people to the store for items and so on, but they should be kept separate database/server wise.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 20:00:31 -0400, Tim - N3TL n3tl@bellsouth.net wrote:
Alan and all,
Here's my 2 cents' worth - coming from someone who admittedly knows very little about the tools, skills and resources necessary to develop and maintain a Web site.
Alan, you write: "It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site."
How does the AMSAT store fit into this, and is it possible to "mix" a wiki-style "access for all" site with one that will include areas for the entry and transfer of secure, private information (e.g., credit card information for purchases)?
I ask this because I don't know of another major nonprofit that uses a wiki-style site because of the need to incorporate an ecommerce site as part of the overall Web presence.
My initial reaction to a Wiki approach is - no - for those reasons.
I hope someone can provide more information here to me and everyone who reads the BB that might help mitigate my concerns. I further hope someone who is truly interested in mitigating the issues seemingly so many here have with the AMSAT Web site will attend the Board meeting in October to continue this kind of dialogue with the Board.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
Thanks for your comments Tim. I'm accumulating some responses off-list in addition to what y'all can read here. I don't want to go into solution mode at this early stage. Your concern is valid and worst case is that the secure web e-commerce that AMSAT is now comfortable with would be linked to from any new platform.
_____
From: Tim - N3TL [mailto:n3tl@bellsouth.net] Sent: September 8, 2009 7:01 PM To: Alan VE4YZ; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
Alan and all,
Here's my 2 cents' worth - coming from someone who admittedly knows very little about the tools, skills and resources necessary to develop and maintain a Web site.
Alan, you write: "It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site."
How does the AMSAT store fit into this, and is it possible to "mix" a wiki-style "access for all" site with one that will include areas for the entry and transfer of secure, private information (e.g., credit card information for purchases)?
I ask this because I don't know of another major nonprofit that uses a wiki-style site because of the need to incorporate an ecommerce site as part of the overall Web presence.
My initial reaction to a Wiki approach is - no - for those reasons.
I hope someone can provide more information here to me and everyone who reads the BB that might help mitigate my concerns. I further hope someone who is truly interested in mitigating the issues seemingly so many here have with the AMSAT Web site will attend the Board meeting in October to continue this kind of dialogue with the Board.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
_____
From: Alan VE4YZ ve4yz@mts.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 7:38:30 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4 of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer a Wiki on another server.
We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now. Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be the registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of any former code whacker to modify or update.
We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be available for updating a la Wiki.
I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
73, Alan VE4YZ EN19kv AMSAT LM 2352 http://www.wincube.ca
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
After reading this thread, I figured it'd be worthwhile to set up a mediawiki instance to let people get familiar with it. I set one up last night on a node for my own enlightenment. The configuration is not "the best" by any means. For those interested in timeframe, it took thirty minutes to configure this instance from a clean arch linux installation. If you are interested in poking around in the environment to see what it feel like, go ahead, that's why I set it up. I disabled email registration, so anyone can just create an account and get a feel for creating pages / editing / preferences / etc... Tonight, i'm going to hack at creating my own skin, since it would just be cool :-) I added the amsat logo to the main page for testing, I hope this doesn't violate any copyright rules.... If it does, hollar and i'll remove it.
For the record, I have nothing to do with Amsat right now, outside of being a first time member this year. I also don't want anyone to think that i'm pushing for media wiki or anything of the sort. I just like the idea of having a wiki. I read the email thread and figured it'd be worthwhile to set an instance up so Amsat folk could get familiar with it. I have managed two other wiki systems on my own, trac / moinmoin. MediaWiki has quite a bit to offer and is reasonably easy to configure.
Here's a link to the playground:
Let me know if you have any comments or questions (or if you get any weird behavior).
Joseph Armbruster, KJ4JIO www.joevial.com
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 10:10 PM, Alan VE4YZ ve4yz@mts.net wrote:
Thanks for your comments Tim. I'm accumulating some responses off-list in addition to what y'all can read here. I don't want to go into solution mode at this early stage. Your concern is valid and worst case is that the secure web e-commerce that AMSAT is now comfortable with would be linked to from any new platform.
From: Tim - N3TL [mailto:n3tl@bellsouth.net] Sent: September 8, 2009 7:01 PM To: Alan VE4YZ; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
Alan and all,
Here's my 2 cents' worth - coming from someone who admittedly knows very little about the tools, skills and resources necessary to develop and maintain a Web site.
Alan, you write: "It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site."
How does the AMSAT store fit into this, and is it possible to "mix" a wiki-style "access for all" site with one that will include areas for the entry and transfer of secure, private information (e.g., credit card information for purchases)?
I ask this because I don't know of another major nonprofit that uses a wiki-style site because of the need to incorporate an ecommerce site as part of the overall Web presence.
My initial reaction to a Wiki approach is - no - for those reasons.
I hope someone can provide more information here to me and everyone who reads the BB that might help mitigate my concerns. I further hope someone who is truly interested in mitigating the issues seemingly so many here have with the AMSAT Web site will attend the Board meeting in October to continue this kind of dialogue with the Board.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
From: Alan VE4YZ ve4yz@mts.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 7:38:30 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4 of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer a Wiki on another server.
We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now. Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be the registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of any former code whacker to modify or update.
We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be available for updating a la Wiki.
I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
73, Alan VE4YZ EN19kv AMSAT LM 2352 http://www.wincube.ca
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Alan, David, Tim Joel, et al,
I have prepared a presentation to the Board on the web site. We need 1) content 2) people to periodically update the information 3) new software to access the web site for periodic update 4) possibly a new structure to add to the current web site.
All of these things are possible, it mostly requires people to volunteer and follow through on a long term basis.
73, Gould, WA4SXM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan VE4YZ" ve4yz@mts.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:38 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
IMHO fixing the existing site is not the answer.
If the executives will okay the use of a Wiki format, I am sure that 3 or 4 of us can communicate off list to set up a group to install and administer a Wiki on another server.
We can call it The SIG ( Satellite Interest Group ) or whatever for now. Any and All AMSAT members can then be registered to maintain the Wiki. If the members and executive like the results it can be migrated to the AMSAT server. It must include RSS, news feeds, and a forum in addition to all the stuff ( current or otherwise ) on the existing AMSAT site.
The cost to this 3 or 4 person ( or more ) "steering committee" would be the registration of a name and a year on a web hosting service such as GoDaddy what runs a similar server a AMSAT's host. Or, use the AMSAT hosting company. So this small group would have to come up with less than one year's AMSAT membership to start this project.
We use an Open Source Wiki, no more customized PHP like the current site that is high maintenance and really hard for anyone to get into the head of any former code whacker to modify or update.
We need the AMSAT exec okay because there would be a lot of cut 'n paste of old stuff from the existing site into the pilot project where is would be available for updating a la Wiki.
I don't do this for a living, I do maintain a couple of club web sites, but I bet we have a member reading this who is a professional web-whacker who might oversee the team and keep us from making dumb decisions such as choosing the wrong open source wiki to being with.
That's my 2 cents and just one warm body being offered for the effort.
73, Alan VE4YZ EN19kv AMSAT LM 2352 http://www.wincube.ca
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:
So who among you would like to volunteer to rewrite some of the articles and bring them up to date?
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
John and all,
No disrespect intended to anyone - but I found myself exactly in the place you described in June of last year. The AMSAT Web site helped me way more than it hindered me. I dare say anyone who knows how to use Google or any search engine will find many sources of (likely) way more information than he or she will ever need to start working the satellites.
None of this is to suggest that so many bad/out-of-date links is a good thing. I second Drew's response - who would like to step up and volunteer to help improve the organization and its Web site?
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
________________________________ From: "acjohn1@juno.com" acjohn1@juno.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 5:26:18 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] broken links
When you first start thinking about playing with the satallites there isn't that much information on the web. Most links are broken or refer to satellites that are long silent. Step back and look at the hobby from someone looking to get into it. You are not going to get home brewers if all the plans use parts no longer made and you are not going to get new satellite people if all of the info is for dead birds. 73
John KG4VHV
____________________________________________________________ Lose up to 20 lbs in one month with a new diet. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYbqNUytsnOVAfolnUsFf0P2...
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
How about setting up a wiki style setup and have everyone contribute updates and so on. So no one person is tied down doing all the updates.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:39:48 -0400, Tim - N3TL n3tl@bellsouth.net wrote:
John and all,
No disrespect intended to anyone - but I found myself exactly in the place you described in June of last year. The AMSAT Web site helped me way more than it hindered me. I dare say anyone who knows how to use Google or any search engine will find many sources of (likely) way more information than he or she will ever need to start working the satellites.
None of this is to suggest that so many bad/out-of-date links is a good thing. I second Drew's response - who would like to step up and volunteer to help improve the organization and its Web site?
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
Hi David.....Good suggestion but the same old problem. Whose going to do it???
Your Board knows the web site needs fixing . . . but whose going to volunteer to do the fixing. It was set up by volunteers who are no longer around to fix it.
We sure hear about the problems, and the web site has its share. All these great solutions but no one willing to part of those solutions. But then, it's so much easier to point out the problems than it is to try and fix then.
Now I understand it can be hard to find technical talent to volunteer to build a satellite but you would think it would be a whole lot easier to find a volunteer(s) that can handle web site management. But alas...it is not to be.
Oh well, lets keep hitting the Board up side the head, like that will surely solve the problem.
Any of this sinking in out there? You can bitch about the broken web site all you want but until we get a volunteer(s) to do the bloody work... well you know the story.
Here's a crazy idea. How about you folks putting a "team" together to share the work so that one person isn't overwhelmed with a commitment to fix the problem. Aah - who am I kidding. They'll be no response to that either.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
David Bate wrote:
How about setting up a wiki style setup and have everyone contribute updates and so on. So no one person is tied down doing all the updates.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:39:48 -0400, Tim - N3TL n3tl@bellsouth.net
wrote:
John and all,
No disrespect intended to anyone - but I found myself exactly in the place you described in June of last year. The AMSAT Web site helped me way more than it hindered me. I dare say anyone who knows how to use Google or any search engine will find many sources of (likely) way
more
information than he or she will ever need to start working the satellites.
None of this is to suggest that so many bad/out-of-date links is a
good
thing. I second Drew's response - who would like to step up and volunteer to help improve the organization and its Web site?
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
David Bate wrote:
How about setting up a wiki style setup and have everyone contribute updates and so on. So no one person is tied down doing all the updates.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:39:48 -0400, Tim - N3TL n3tl@bellsouth.net wrote:
John and all,
No disrespect intended to anyone - but I found myself exactly in the place you described in June of last year. The AMSAT Web site helped me way more than it hindered me. I dare say anyone who knows how to use Google or any search engine will find many sources of (likely) way more information than he or she will ever need to start working the satellites.
None of this is to suggest that so many bad/out-of-date links is a good thing. I second Drew's response - who would like to step up and volunteer to help improve the organization and its Web site?
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
Another two sites I really like reading on a daily basis are www.slashdot.org and www.lifehacker.com. What do y'all think.
I agree with Bill, it should be a community effort in case folks get burned out or become unavailable.
73, Joel/W4JBB
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Bill Ress bill@hsmicrowave.com wrote:
Hi David.....Good suggestion but the same old problem. Whose going to do it???
Your Board knows the web site needs fixing . . . but whose going to volunteer to do the fixing. It was set up by volunteers who are no longer around to fix it.
We sure hear about the problems, and the web site has its share. All these great solutions but no one willing to part of those solutions. But then, it's so much easier to point out the problems than it is to try and fix then.
Now I understand it can be hard to find technical talent to volunteer to build a satellite but you would think it would be a whole lot easier to find a volunteer(s) that can handle web site management. But alas...it is not to be.
Oh well, lets keep hitting the Board up side the head, like that will surely solve the problem.
Any of this sinking in out there? You can bitch about the broken web site all you want but until we get a volunteer(s) to do the bloody work... well you know the story.
Here's a crazy idea. How about you folks putting a "team" together to share the work so that one person isn't overwhelmed with a commitment to fix the problem. Aah - who am I kidding. They'll be no response to that either.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz
David Bate wrote:
How about setting up a wiki style setup and have everyone contribute updates and so on. So no one person is tied down doing all the updates.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:39:48 -0400, Tim - N3TL n3tl@bellsouth.net
wrote:
John and all,
No disrespect intended to anyone - but I found myself exactly in the place you described in June of last year. The AMSAT Web site helped me way more than it hindered me. I dare say anyone who knows how to use Google or any search engine will find many sources of (likely) way
more
information than he or she will ever need to start working the satellites.
None of this is to suggest that so many bad/out-of-date links is a
good
thing. I second Drew's response - who would like to step up and volunteer to help improve the organization and its Web site?
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
David Bate wrote:
How about setting up a wiki style setup and have everyone contribute updates and so on. So no one person is tied down doing all the updates.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 17:39:48 -0400, Tim - N3TL n3tl@bellsouth.net
wrote:
John and all,
No disrespect intended to anyone - but I found myself exactly in the place you described in June of last year. The AMSAT Web site helped me way more than it hindered me. I dare say anyone who knows how to use Google or any search engine will find many sources of (likely) way more information than he or she will ever need to start working the satellites.
None of this is to suggest that so many bad/out-of-date links is a good thing. I second Drew's response - who would like to step up and volunteer to help improve the organization and its Web site?
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Joel W4JBB wrote:
Another two sites I really like reading on a daily basis are www.slashdot.org and www.lifehacker.com. What do y'all think.
The software that runs Slashdot (slashcode) are available under GPL. Various other "bulletin board" systems are available, like phpBB and vBulletin. There are lots of content management systems out there, like Joomla and Django. I've built web sites with Django. It's slick. And it's built with Python, which has to be good. :-) Reinventing the wheel is not needed. What's needed is the goal of getting information to people who need it, and making sure it's accurate. If information is not read, or cannot be found, it accomplishes nothing. Laura Halliday VE7LDH "Que les nuages soient notre Grid: CN89mg pied a terre..." ICBM: 49 16.05 N 122 56.92 W - Hospital/Shafte
_________________________________________________________________ Cliquez moins, discutez plus : nouvel accès à Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9677414
Obviously there are those with the skills to "fix" the website. However, most of the AMSAT members, including me, do not have those skills. I do have skills in other areas, but I have enough to do just trying to keep my own website current and it is one of those "websites for dummies" types that Go Daddy has available. Now they don't call it "websites for dummies" but that is what it basically is.
It is going to take more than an advertisement in the newsletter, which, I am almost certain many, if not most, of the members don't even notice, to get the volunteer help needed. Basically, it is going to take a "feature" article and maybe even a "headline" on the cover.
I have been a member of AMSAT since the 2nd month of its creation and, over the years, I have seen people come and go as well as peaks and lows in the level of participation of the membership. Like most organizations there are a relatively few people who do the majority of the work and, unfortunately, it is really "up to" those who are doing the actual work to ask for help. Is this unfair? To quote the old "Laugh In" TV show, "you bet your sweet bippy". However, this is just one of the unfortunate "facts of life" in the volunteer organization world.
I have been a "professional author" for going on 50 years (have over 1000 copyrighted articles, newspaper columns, etc.), albeit part time. My articles have been published in 73 Magazine, CQ Magazine, Ham Radio Magazine, Electric Radio Magazine, Popular Electronics Magazine, and several other publications. I was also the first FM Editor of CQ Magazine from January 1971 until September 1973. In addition, for over 3 years I wrote a three times a week newspaper column for the Belo Corporation. If desired, I can write such an article asking for help. Let me know if this is desired and to whom the manuscript should be E-Mailed.
Glen, K9STH AMSAT 239/LM 463
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Bill Ress bill@hsmicrowave.com wrote:
Hi David.....Good suggestion but the same old problem. Whose going to do it???
Your Board knows the web site needs fixing . . . but whose going to volunteer to do the fixing. It was set up by volunteers who are no longer around to fix it.
We sure hear about the problems, and the web site has its share. All these great solutions but no one willing to part of those solutions. But then, it's so much easier to point out the problems than it is to try and fix then.
Now I understand it can be hard to find technical talent to volunteer to build a satellite but you would think it would be a whole lot easier to find a volunteer(s) that can handle web site management. But alas...it is not to be.
Oh well, lets keep hitting the Board up side the head, like that will surely solve the problem.
Any of this sinking in out there? You can bitch about the broken web site all you want but until we get a volunteer(s) to do the bloody work... well you know the story.
Here's a crazy idea. How about you folks putting a "team" together to share the work so that one person isn't overwhelmed with a commitment to fix the problem. Aah - who am I kidding. They'll be no response to that either.
Glen,
We have similar credentials, although I hit 1.000 bylined-and-published site in about 30 years ... hihi. Please email your article to me, for inclusion in the next issue of the Journal.
It's my call AT amsat dot org. Also, please feel free to contact me off the BB if you wish.
73 to all,
Tim - N3TL Athens, Ga. - EM84ha
________________________________ From: Glen Zook gzook@yahoo.com To: David Bate cfpm_cfsis@scandesk.info; Bill Ress bill@hsmicrowave.com Cc: List - AMSAT amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2009 9:10:29 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: broken links
Obviously there are those with the skills to "fix" the website. However, most of the AMSAT members, including me, do not have those skills. I do have skills in other areas, but I have enough to do just trying to keep my own website current and it is one of those "websites for dummies" types that Go Daddy has available. Now they don't call it "websites for dummies" but that is what it basically is.
It is going to take more than an advertisement in the newsletter, which, I am almost certain many, if not most, of the members don't even notice, to get the volunteer help needed. Basically, it is going to take a "feature" article and maybe even a "headline" on the cover.
I have been a member of AMSAT since the 2nd month of its creation and, over the years, I have seen people come and go as well as peaks and lows in the level of participation of the membership. Like most organizations there are a relatively few people who do the majority of the work and, unfortunately, it is really "up to" those who are doing the actual work to ask for help. Is this unfair? To quote the old "Laugh In" TV show, "you bet your sweet bippy". However, this is just one of the unfortunate "facts of life" in the volunteer organization world.
I have been a "professional author" for going on 50 years (have over 1000 copyrighted articles, newspaper columns, etc.), albeit part time. My articles have been published in 73 Magazine, CQ Magazine, Ham Radio Magazine, Electric Radio Magazine, Popular Electronics Magazine, and several other publications. I was also the first FM Editor of CQ Magazine from January 1971 until September 1973. In addition, for over 3 years I wrote a three times a week newspaper column for the Belo Corporation. If desired, I can write such an article asking for help. Let me know if this is desired and to whom the manuscript should be E-Mailed.
Glen, K9STH AMSAT 239/LM 463
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Bill Ress bill@hsmicrowave.com wrote:
Hi David.....Good suggestion but the same old problem. Whose going to do it???
Your Board knows the web site needs fixing . . . but whose going to volunteer to do the fixing. It was set up by volunteers who are no longer around to fix it.
We sure hear about the problems, and the web site has its share. All these great solutions but no one willing to part of those solutions. But then, it's so much easier to point out the problems than it is to try and fix then.
Now I understand it can be hard to find technical talent to volunteer to build a satellite but you would think it would be a whole lot easier to find a volunteer(s) that can handle web site management. But alas...it is not to be.
Oh well, lets keep hitting the Board up side the head, like that will surely solve the problem.
Any of this sinking in out there? You can bitch about the broken web site all you want but until we get a volunteer(s) to do the bloody work... well you know the story.
Here's a crazy idea. How about you folks putting a "team" together to share the work so that one person isn't overwhelmed with a commitment to fix the problem. Aah - who am I kidding. They'll be no response to that either.
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I hit the 1000 mark a couple of decades ago as well. Sold my very first article to Wayne Green at 73 Magazine my junior year in high school. Got $30 for an article that was 2/3rds of a page in the old small size magazine which included a sketch! That was a "fortune" to a 17 year old in 1961.
By the way, I graduated from the North Avenue Trade School (a.k.a. Georgia Tech) in April of 1967.
Glen, K9STH
Website: http://k9sth.com
--- On Tue, 9/8/09, Tim - N3TL n3tl@bellsouth.net wrote:
We have similar credentials, although I hit 1.000 bylined-and-published site in about 30 years ... hihi. Please email your article to me, for inclusion in the next issue of the Journal. It's my call AT amsat dot org. Also, please feel free to contact me off the BB if you wish.
Tim - N3TL
participants (13)
-
acjohn1＠juno.com -
Alan VE4YZ -
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Andrew Rich (Home) -
Bill Ress -
David Bate -
Glen Zook -
Gould Smith -
Joel Black -
Joseph Armbruster -
laura halliday -
Scott Richardson -
Tim - N3TL