All,

After careful consideration concerning this thread it seems we have three distinct areas that need to be, or are being, addressed.

Perhaps we could get some definitive answers as to where we/AMSAT stand on them as in some cases nothing further has been heard.

1) *The website* - my understanding is that this will become a Wiki style affair and that someone has already volunteered to start it

Is this correct? Is this happening? Who is doing this?

2) *The Satellite Status page* - I was asked to supply information to correct any inaccuracy's just before the idea was hatched to use the dcarr Live Oscar Satellite Status site as a feeder. Again I understand that this has been approved by David Carr, KD5QGR and is awaiting implementation.

Is this correct? Is this happening? Who is doing this?

3) *The volunteer page* - clearly the thing is broken and clearly people do not know this until after they have filled in the form. So would it not be an idea to state clearly on the home page of the website that the site is undergoing some sort of revamp? In that way viewers know the we know that the issues are being addressed.

Secondly, on the Satellite Status page, again some sort of wording should be appended referring to the ongoing upgrade of the site, also mentioning the future amalgamation of information from David Carr's site and provide a direct link to it? Maybe David would be kind enough to reciprocate with a direct link back to the AMSAT home page so that viewers can return easily.

Lastly the Volunteer page, again some words on it saying that it is not functioning, do not waste half an hour filling it in only to hit send and find its buggered. If interested e-mail Gould or someone else so designated.

I fear that without some positive short term damage limitation on the website, these threads are just going to keep popping up. The Volunteer page issue is now so old its got grey hairs!

Even if no body steps forward to volunteer to change anything at all, if the correct wording is applied to the website then people know where to go for the answers and information that they need and we/AMSAT don't look incompetent.

Calling "blaming" the website problems a "cop out" is not a true statement, at least in my opinion. Yes, there are "other" ways of exchanging information with the various persons involved with AMSAT. However, those "other" ways are not always apparent nor are those methods readily available to everyone. Then there is the problem of knowing just which person in the organization is responsible for the subject of the correspondence. Contacting the "wrong" person will at least delay the exchange and sometimes result in no exchange at all.

Like it or not, in today's "information age" when a presence on the "web" is established the website becomes "the" focus point for the distribution of up-to-date information and when various reply functions are established on the website those functions become the principle media of information exchange. AMSAT is not the only organization that has been lacking in the maintaining of the website. There are many other groups that are just as guilty (even "more" guilty in many cases) of not keeping their web presence current. Often, when the website is not functioning properly, people will just ignore the website and then "forget" the whole thing. That goes for many things, not just where volunteering is involved. The result is that a lot of potentially beneficial things end up in "Never Never Land" rather than actually helping the situation.

One thing that this discussion has accomplished is to bring some of the problems which have been affecting the organization into "the light of day" and, as such, efforts are being made to correct the problems. Probably, there have been some feelings "hurt" in the case of people who haven't been "doing their jobs" for any variety of reasons. There are all sorts of reasons why and I won't even try to list even a number of those reasons. But, it comes down to finding people who have not only the skills needed to perform certain tasks but who also have the time to accomplish those tasks as well as the desire to accomplish them.

The "gist" of the situation is that one needs to "lead, follow, or get out of the way".

Glen, K9STH AMSAT 239 / LM 463

Website: http://k9sth.com

--- On Thu, 9/10/09, Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com wrote:

As I've been told, the submittal of the survey works now, but who the information goes to may be under revision/addition. If you are reading this and you want to help with something, just call the office, or email the officer responsible for that area, and forget about that survey until we can get it working 100%. Yes, it needs fixed, but a serious volunteer doesn't let such a silly thing get in their way. Mike is 100% correct in my opinion, blaming a faulty website is a cop-out.

Glen Zook wrote:

Calling "blaming" the website problems a "cop out" is not a true statement, at least in my opinion. Yes, there are "other" ways of exchanging information with the various persons involved with AMSAT. However, those "other" ways are not always apparent nor are those methods readily available to everyone. Then there is the problem of knowing just which person in the organization is responsible for the subject of the correspondence. Contacting the "wrong" person will at least delay the exchange and sometimes result in no exchange at all.

It's obvious we disagree. Presumably anyone with a computer to look at the webpage will have a phone, and can see the big 1 888 322 6728 number on the top right of EVERY page. They can, if they have a web browser, and go to the leadership page and send an email. They can take note of the callsign of an officer and send an email to callsign@amsat.org. They can send an email to officers@amsat.org, or bod@amsat.org, just as easily as they can to amsat-bb. They can even send a letter or a fax, and believe it or not, we still get both. For some of us, you can even ask us over the radio!

The type of volunteer we need is a self-motivated doer that doesn't need handholding or spoonfeeding, and that has extremely thick skin if they read the -bb unfortunately. They also need to finish what they start. That type of volunteer isn't stymied by a broken web-link. They just get it done. Mike is one of our best examples, he has earned the right to voice his opinion on the topic at the end of a soldering iron building tracker boxes by the dozen.

Thanks for writing the article for the Journal. It's obvious you can walk the walk, so don't take my opinion on this topic too personally. The topic is somewhat moot anyways, as that particular form has been fixed. Considering we don't charge anyone anything for anything we do other than the Journal, it's really surprising to see so much griping over free stuff.

73, Drew KO4MA

Then there's the geographical issue. I'm not going to volunteer if I can't get there to do it.

Glen Zook wrote:

I thought long and hard before replying to you. Unfortunately, it is the fault of the organization when the systems do not work. On purpose? Of course not. But, it still is within the control of the organization and therefore it definitely is the fault of the organization.

There is a "Catch 22". There is a need for volunteers but the prime method of volunteering is not available. Why? Because there are not enough volunteers to "fix" the method of volunteering.

Yes, there are other ways of eventually having someone's volunteering to help being recognized. However, most individuals are not going to go through a trial and error means of finding the "correct" means of offering their services. Frankly, this is just not going to happen.

I have submitted an article for publication in The AMSAT Journal on this very problem. Hopefully it will be published in the next edition and, again, hopefully it will help alleviate, at least in some small way, the problems that presently exist.

Glen, K9STH AMSAT 239 / LM 463