Signals on the cross band repeater is very choppy. Is it a problem? As i far i can remember i never hear the ISS downlink so choppy. Is the COR system is activated with audio in the signal or only by the carrier?
Thank's
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
It seems to be working about as well as one can expect.
Remember the current setup is not a true cross band repeater with cavity filters and a tight set of receiver crystals.
It was very choppy over boston as the number of users increased.
It seems that stations that were running Power and compensating for Doppler had greater success.
The Doppler correction seems to be one of the keys to getting in.
As for your Audio, you must speak softly. There is one specific VE2 station that is running a lot of ERP, unfortunately his Audio is too loud and as a result his audio is pure distortion. After 3 orbit passes I still cold not figure out his call sign because his Mic gain was too high for this satellite.
I am also hearing many people using Full Duplex systems, who forgot that you MUST be wearing Headphones while using Full Duplex. The Audio loop caused by Not using the headphones also makes your audio Unusable. The audio circuit in this repeater is TOO hot and will distort easily.
Tips:
Use the minimal power. Compensate for Doppler on 437.800 (plus and minus 10khz) Speak Softly and slow Full Duplex users must wear headphones.
And also you signal will not decode until you are at least 6-12 db above the noise floor at the Space Station.
QRP stations may want to plan for OFF hours when most people local to you are Sleeping or at Work.
wf1f
--- Luc Leblanc lucleblanc6@videotron.ca wrote:
Signals on the cross band repeater is very choppy. Is it a problem? As i far i can remember i never hear the ISS downlink so choppy. Is the COR system is activated with audio in the signal or only by the carrier?
Thank's
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
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Anyone here have trouble with local signals bowling-over the downlink? I've got a local repeater somewhere nearby on 145.790 that prevents me from hearing the ISS downlink. I can't find the frequency listed on either echlolink or irlp's websites. Is there a better way to find an individual repeater? Normally I could just contact the owner by listening to the ID, but the quality of the injected audio from their controller is so poor(lots of bass and deviation, absolutely no treble) that I can't make out the callsign. Auke
Could you get some help from operators with a little direction finding capabilities?
Kenneth - N5VHO
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Auke de Jong, VE6PWN Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 7:14 AM To: AMSAT-BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ISS rptr
Anyone here have trouble with local signals bowling-over the downlink? I've got a local repeater somewhere nearby on 145.790 that prevents me from hearing the ISS downlink. I can't find the frequency listed on either echlolink or irlp's websites. Is there a better way to find an individual repeater? Normally I could just contact the owner by listening to the ID, but the quality of the injected audio from their controller is so poor(lots of bass and deviation, absolutely no treble) that I can't make out the callsign. Auke
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I've got a local repeater somewhere nearby on 145.790 that prevents me from hearing the ISS downlink. I can't find the frequency listed ... Is there a better way to find an individual repeater?
Sure, it is trivial and you do not need any DF equipment, just your mobile and an HT and a little time. These techniques work with any FM radio. Please see the Dfing web page:
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/dfing.html
Although the page is titled APRS Dfing.. None of the techniques need APRS. APRS is only being used here as a convenient map for visualizing your data.
I would think that with a little driving and if you can keep the repeater up, then it should be easy to find.
Bob, WB4APR
You can use a lot less gas by using a directional antenna DF work. Then use the savings to buy a 3 element yagi and attenuator, like the ARROW beam. http://www.arrowantennas.com/
Or build a hand held beam. http://home.att.net/~jleggio/projects/rdf/tape_bm.htm http://www.hvdfa.webhop.net/
Then you can also use it to talk/hear the LEO sats with a hand held.
To the original question - Perhaps he has an echolink type node on that frequency?
73 Ernie W8EH
Robert Bruninga wrote:
I've got a local repeater somewhere nearby on 145.790 that prevents me from hearing the ISS downlink. I can't find the frequency listed ... Is there a better way to find an individual repeater?
Sure, it is trivial and you do not need any DF equipment, just your mobile and an HT and a little time. These techniques work with any FM radio. Please see the Dfing web page:
http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/dfing.html
Although the page is titled APRS Dfing.. None of the techniques need APRS. APRS is only being used here as a convenient map for visualizing your data.
I would think that with a little driving and if you can keep the repeater up, then it should be easy to find.
Bob, WB4APR
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Auke de Jong, VE6PWN wrote:
Anyone here have trouble with local signals bowling-over the downlink? I've got a local repeater somewhere nearby on 145.790 that prevents me from hearing the ISS downlink. I can't find the frequency listed on either echlolink or irlp's websites.
What do EchoLink or IRLP have to do with the frequency chosen for a local repeater by the repeater trustee? It's 100% a local problem, no matter what linking technology the Amateur decided to use.
Locally 145.79 is listed in our local bandplan as "Miscellaneous and Experimental Modes" and it's not an appropriate place for a repeater here. (Colorado, USA)
145.5-146.0 MHz is also NOT part of the U.S. repeater sub-band legally, but no idea what your rules in Canada are. Searched the RAC website for a link to your regulations, and that was ... well, useless.
Are you sure it's a repeater, or is it a simplex link into one of the above-mentioned systems or a link between sites or similar?
Is there a better way to find an individual repeater? Normally I could just contact the owner by listening to the ID, but the quality of the injected audio from their controller is so poor(lots of bass and deviation, absolutely no treble) that I can't make out the callsign.
Probably "double-deemphasized". The proliferation of people building repeaters and simplex links has really taken off now that it's seen as an "easy" thing to do. Of course, if they have no idea how emphasis and de-emphasis work in an FM rig, they're hosed from the very start and don't even know it. Then they wonder why it sounds bad. The basics of FM are lost on a lot of hams these days, sadly. Try having a discussion about the difference between deviation and modulation on any FM repeater during drive-time if you want an exercise in futility.
If it's CW, just record it and play with it in your favorite audio editor to tweak the audio to your liking. With the typical display in that type of software, you may even be able to copy a CW ID "visually". I like Audacity for this type of thing. Free, works on most platforms (like great software these days should) and well, how can you beat free software that wins awards for how good it works? (GRIN)
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/
If voice... well, no thoughts there. If it's so bad you can't understand a voice ID, how are they even using it?
Makes me wonder if it's someone experimenting with wide-band deviation (wider than 5 KHz)... which while not really effective and efficient use of spectrum, certainly may be something that someone is playing with in your area.
All you can do is try to contact the owner and ask them to move it, explaining that they parked it right next to the downlink of ISS. I doubt anyone sane would not honor your request. Of course, there's plenty of completely insane/crazy hams out there... been there, done that. Got the T-Shirt.
Nate WY0X
On 6 Feb 2008 at 12:35, Nate Duehr wrote:
Locally 145.79 is listed in our local band plan as "Miscellaneous and Experimental Modes" and it's not an appropriate place for a repeater here. (Colorado, USA)
145.5-146.0 MHz is also NOT part of the U.S. repeater sub-band legally, but no idea what your rules in Canada are. Searched the RAC website for a link to your regulations, and that was ... well, useless.
You find nothing because there is nothing to be found!!
Canada deregulate Ham radio couple of years ago and there is no more band plan in the amateur radio bands in Canada. The National and Quebec associations recommend to stick by the former sub allocations list that was mostly the same used in the US. They ask us to work on a kind of gentlemen's agreement and as we are all gentlemen's we follow this advice but if one day i choose to put a repeater on 145.800mhz nobody can force me to move away!!!
If a choose to call CQ on 3.715Mhz in USB i can and the CW contester will have to "behave" accordingly...As you can see we are really gentlemen's and i you can check on your side with some north eastern folks who are QRV on 80mtrs around 3.780mhz if they will confirm if the same courtesy exist you will see that bottom line it is only a question of common sense, logic, and mutual respect.
'Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level then beat you with experience."
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
What Luc says is correct, but there are band plans for Canadians:
http://www.rac.ca/service/bandplan.htm
On Feb 6, 2008 4:54 PM, Luc Leblanc lucleblanc6@videotron.ca wrote:
On 6 Feb 2008 at 12:35, Nate Duehr wrote:
Locally 145.79 is listed in our local band plan as "Miscellaneous and Experimental Modes" and it's not an appropriate place for a repeater here. (Colorado, USA)
145.5-146.0 MHz is also NOT part of the U.S. repeater sub-band legally, but no idea what your rules in Canada are. Searched the RAC website for a link to your regulations, and that was ... well, useless.
You find nothing because there is nothing to be found!!
Canada deregulate Ham radio couple of years ago and there is no more band plan in the amateur radio bands in Canada. The National and Quebec associations recommend to stick by the former sub allocations list that was mostly the same used in the US. They ask us to work on a kind of gentlemen's agreement and as we are all gentlemen's we follow this advice but if one day i choose to put a repeater on 145.800mhz nobody can force me to move away!!!
If a choose to call CQ on 3.715Mhz in USB i can and the CW contester will have to "behave" accordingly...As you can see we are really gentlemen's and i you can check on your side with some north eastern folks who are QRV on 80mtrs around 3.780mhz if they will confirm if the same courtesy exist you will see that bottom line it is only a question of common sense, logic, and mutual respect.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nate Duehr" nate@natetech.com To: "AMSAT-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 12:35 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ISS rptr
What do EchoLink or IRLP have to do with the frequency chosen for a local repeater by the repeater trustee?
Those systems list the output frequency in many of the lists I've seen online. However, definitely not all nodes are listed.
If voice... well, no thoughts there. If it's so bad you can't understand a voice ID, how are they even using it?
I often wonder how they use it too, there are several in this city alone, each with it's own definition of "inexcusably poor audio quality". Strangely, they all seem to be hard-linked to The Philippines.
All you can do is try to contact the owner and ask them to move it, explaining that they parked it right next to the downlink of ISS. I doubt anyone sane would not honor your request.
That is my only hope
Of course, there's plenty of completely insane/crazy hams out there...
5 seconds of listening to AO-51 or AO-16 over NA while the footprint covers areas south of 40 deg N is evidence of that!
'73 Auke VE6PWN
Last night the ISS ham station was not active. It is normal for Nasa to shutdown some of the radio gear during a Shuttle or other Docking Mission.
Now that the D700 has been tested for 5+ days in Cross Band repater, its time to find a laptop and start running some Slow Scan TV from ISS again.
www.marexmg.org
73 Miles
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What do EchoLink or IRLP have to do with the frequency chosen for a local repeater...
Those systems list the output frequency in many of the lists I've seen online.
There are also scripts that run on IRLP and Echolink nodes to put out an object on APRS 144.39. These objects appear on your APRS mobile or HT radio and contain their frequency, PL tone and coverage range and status... See how they look on a D7: http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/EL-123456x.JPG
The position page on the D7 shows the distance and direction: http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/EL-posit.JPG
Problem is, not all such nodes output this valuable information so that they can be seen by everyone in range.
For full details on how Voice repeaters, Echolink and IRLP nodes (and all other local HAM radio assets) are supposed to announce themselves to nearby travelers, please see: http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/localinfo.html
Bob, WB4APR
ISS repeater Pass Monday Feb 5, 2008
It was a good repeater night. My QTH had an 82 degree pass. It was hard not to have a good signal.
Charlie N3CRT: Suggested we try Narrow FM. My Yeasu FT-736 supports 2.5 and 5k deviation FM. So I tried it and I do agree the Narrow 2.5k FM seems to work Better. I had many solid contacts last night. How did my audio sound?
Luc WE2DWE: Your Audio was Great last night. Nice and clear, no distortion and Full Quieting. I am jealous, hi hi.
I only heard a few people without headphones last night and still a few that were over modulating. One station got a good lock and I could hear his children playing in the background (Mic gain too high).
I updated my short tips list to include Narrow FM.
Tips:
Use the minimal power.
Compensate for Doppler on 437.800 (Try for an error of less than 2khz)
Set your FM deviation to Low (2.5khz verses 5 kHz)
Speak Softly and slow (Loud Audio will pop you out of the receiver)
Full Duplex users must wear headphones
Noise Floor: Your signal will not decode until you are at least 6-12 db above the noise floor at the Space Station.
QRP stations may want to plan for OFF hours when most people local to you are Sleeping or at Work.
wf1f
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At 03:53 PM 2/4/2008, Luc Leblanc wrote:
Signals on the cross band repeater is very choppy. Is it a problem? As i far i can remember i never hear the ISS downlink so choppy. Is the COR system is activated with audio in the signal or only by the carrier?
Noticed this happens when you haven't correctly compensated for Doppler shift on the uplink.
73 de VK3JED http://vkradio.com
I wonder if the receive squelch isn't just tight.
Roger WA1KAT
-----Original Message----- From: Tony Langdon vk3jed@gmail.com To: Luc Leblanc lucleblanc6@videotron.ca; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 1:34 pm Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ISS rptr
At 03:53 PM 2/4/2008, Luc Leblanc wrote:
Signals on the cross band repeater is very choppy. Is it a problem? As i far i can remember i never hear the ISS downlink so choppy. Is the COR system is activated with audio in the signal or only by the carrier?
Noticed this happens when you haven't correctly compensated for Doppler shift on the uplink.
73 de VK3JED http://vkradio.com
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I wonder if the receive squelch isn't just tight.
For what it is worth. We measured the difference between fully CW squelch (tightest) and normal squelch setting for the D700, and the difference is less than 2 dB. Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message----- From: Tony Langdon vk3jed@gmail.com To: Luc Leblanc lucleblanc6@videotron.ca; amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 1:34 pm Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ISS rptr
At 03:53 PM 2/4/2008, Luc Leblanc wrote:
Signals on the cross band repeater is very choppy. Is it a problem? As i far i can remember i never hear the ISS
downlink so choppy. Is
the COR system is activated with audio in the signal or only
by the carrier?
Noticed this happens when you haven't correctly compensated
for
Doppler shift on the uplink.
73 de VK3JED http://vkradio.com
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http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Could this be a function of over deviating? I had better luck getting in and staying in with NFM mode and onyl running 20W of power.
Charlie N3CRT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:53 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS rptr
Signals on the cross band repeater is very choppy. Is it a problem? As i far i can remember i never hear the ISS downlink so choppy. Is the COR system is activated with audio in the signal or only by the carrier?
Thank's
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
ISS can be worked with mW's ( well, at least several hundred mW ) or a HT and rubber ducky ( quasi dummy load ).
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Charles Reiche Sent: February 4, 2008 5:39 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: ISS rptr
Could this be a function of over deviating? I had better luck getting in and staying in with NFM mode and onyl running 20W of power.
Charlie N3CRT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:53 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS rptr
Signals on the cross band repeater is very choppy. Is it a problem? As i far i can remember i never hear the ISS downlink so choppy. Is the COR system is activated with audio in the signal or only by the carrier?
Thank's
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
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At 03:53 PM 2/5/2008, Alan wrote:
ISS can be worked with mW's ( well, at least several hundred mW ) or a HT and rubber ducky ( quasi dummy load ).
Indeed, I worked it with 2 HTs yesterday. :)
73 de VK3JED http://vkradio.com
Could this be a function of over deviating? I had better luck getting in and staying in with NFM mode and onyl running 20W of power.
Charlie N3CRT
On the 0405 utc pass at a maximum elevation of 7 degrees i switch to NFM and i finally succeed to lock my TX frq at the satellite compensating for doppler with PC correction software. I achieved a more stable signal but something still block many signal to get through the ISS cross band repeater? I note there is a lot less capture effect and as someone suggest the repeater never open up on noise only on signal i agree with him the squelch is probably set a bit high to avoid noise and noisy signal or they set the receiver at NFM letting only a very narrow RX margin or both.
This make a very quiet repeater...making those who correct doppler by programming step channels always off and sometimes they fall on the right frequency. Again full doppler on the uplink with NFM seems to be the right solution but i will have to recheck.
With the overnight Asia, central and eastern europe orbits it will be interesting to hear if they will confirm the NA results?
The last time the cross band repeater was activated the transmitter was always on as if the squelch remain fully open. I try to find my recordings but as i always used the same "test" name for my scanrec audio file i probably crushed this ISS audio file by some useless audio music file! If someone is able to listen to theses past ISS cross band audio recordings he will be able to confirm that.
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
Good point now that I think about it. we have a local terrestrial repeater that is very touchy about deviation. it just does not like deviates, (pun intended) if anyone gets even a little wide it clips them right off the machine. And now thinking about it, when someones gone from ISS they diddn't get weak or noisey, just gone, so it does sound like people are too wide. which could be easy being excited and all. Joe WB9SBD
Charles Reiche wrote:
Could this be a function of over deviating? I had better luck getting in and staying in with NFM mode and onyl running 20W of power.
Charlie N3CRT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2008 11:53 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] ISS rptr
Signals on the cross band repeater is very choppy. Is it a problem? As i far i can remember i never hear the ISS downlink so choppy. Is the COR system is activated with audio in the signal or only by the carrier?
Thank's
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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participants (13)
-
Alan -
Auke de Jong, VE6PWN -
Bruce Robertson -
Charles Reiche -
Ernie Howard -
Joe -
Luc Leblanc -
MM -
Nate Duehr -
Ransom, Kenneth G. (JSC-OC)[BAR] -
Robert Bruninga -
rogerkola＠aol.com -
Tony Langdon