As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant posts, I want to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY!
Amateur Radio.
Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
Kevin KF7MYK
97.1 Basis and purpose.-
The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
None of these items say "this is a hobby" nor do they allude to "just having fun." I am not trying to say that its just serious in nature, but there is a considerable amount of personal responsibility and focused effort implied by the above points. Think seriously about the phrase "This is a HOBBY people." It's not "just" a hobby, although there are many things that you might do with Amateur Radio that don't focus on the above points. The above points are the "reason" why the FCC lets you have a license and allows us to use the frequencies. If we don't focus on fulfilling the responsibilities and charter of these points with some effort, we are just riding on the heals of the hard work of others, who do, in fact, have these things at the forefront of their efforts to do good things with Amateur Radio.
We need to have discussions and we need to focus on the things that do have meaning related to the 5 points above.
Gregg Wonderly W5GGW
On 10/23/2011 3:33 PM, Kevin Deane wrote:
As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant posts, I want to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY!
Amateur Radio.
Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
Kevin KF7MYK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On Oct 23, 2011, at 7:41 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
97.1 Basis and purpose.-
The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles: [...]
None of these items say "this is a hobby" nor do they allude to "just having fun." I am not trying to say that its just serious in nature, but there is a considerable amount of personal responsibility and focused effort implied by the above points. Think seriously about the phrase "This is a HOBBY people." It's not "just" a hobby, although there are many things that you might do with Amateur Radio that don't focus on the above points. The above points are the "reason" why the FCC
I don't think that's what Kevin meant. But sooner or later it had to happen on the Literalnet. Maybe some people should get outside a bit more and get a life.
73 Mike K5TRI
Greg, It is the Amateur Radio Service. It does have 5 purposes as quoted in Part 97.1
If you buy supplies and work on something you enjoy doing it is called a hobby.
If you do it to establish a business we call it work.
We are Amateurs because we receive no compensation for our efforts, not because we are unprofessional.
So where is the conflict?
Politicians are famous for finding the facts to support their conclusions.
I prefer to have all of the cards on the table.
Art, KC6QUH
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Gregg Wonderly Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 5:42 PM To: Kevin Deane Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people
97.1 Basis and purpose.-
The rules and regulations in this Part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles:
(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with
respect to providing emergency communications.
(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.
(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which
provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.
(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.
(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.
None of these items say "this is a hobby" nor do they allude to "just having
fun." I am not trying to say that its just serious in nature, but there is a considerable amount of personal responsibility and focused effort implied by the above points. Think seriously about the phrase "This is a HOBBY people." It's not "just" a hobby, although there are many things that you might do with Amateur Radio that don't focus on the above points. The above points are the "reason" why the FCC lets you have a license and allows us to use the frequencies. If we don't focus on fulfilling the responsibilities and charter of these points with some effort, we are just riding on the heals of the hard work of others, who do, in fact, have these things at the forefront of their
efforts to do good things with Amateur Radio.
We need to have discussions and we need to focus on the things that do have meaning related to the 5 points above.
Gregg Wonderly W5GGW
On 10/23/2011 3:33 PM, Kevin Deane wrote:
As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant
posts, I want to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY!
Amateur Radio.
Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
Kevin KF7MYK
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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On 10/23/2011 11:55 PM, Art McBride wrote:
Greg, It is the Amateur Radio Service. It does have 5 purposes as quoted in Part 97.1
If you buy supplies and work on something you enjoy doing it is called a hobby.
If you do it to establish a business we call it work.
We are Amateurs because we receive no compensation for our efforts, not because we are unprofessional.
So where is the conflict?
Politicians are famous for finding the facts to support their conclusions.
I prefer to have all of the cards on the table.
Art, there is no conflict in you using Amateur Radio as a hobby. The conflict is in the exact "meaning" of each of the words in the subject line. The capitalization of "Is a HOBBY", puts the emphasis on "is" and "hobby", which for me says that there is no "other part." I enjoy many hobby parts of Amateur Radio. But, I also believe that the service part is very important to my community. I live in Oklahoma where 4 out of 12 months of the year we have tornadoes as a huge threat, and 2 other months out of the year we have a chance for huge ice storms. So, 1/2 of my year is subject to weather events that may require some form of support for the Amateur Radio community. It's a big deal for the local Tulsa NWS office, that we have built a large UHF linked repeater system that covers pretty much all of their responsibility area. They can get direct reports from the local EOC offices from their local spotters on their VHF nets to confirm things they see on radar to be able to get a "Tornado Warning" out ASAP. Every single extra second saves lives.
Thus, in my state, our club and its members can help by keeping equipment and agreements in place so that this system can function. When it's not needed for storm spotting, it works great for wide area bike ride support. We have about 10 different significant bicycle events with 100 mile rides in this area each year. Those people are staying in good health and enjoying the out doors. I like the outdoors too, so going out to help is not a problem for me. I've just had family events with my daughters in Marching Band contests for the past 6 years, and that has kept me from being able to support the 3 big events of the fall (MS-150, Tulsa Tough, Dam Jam) or the others in between. People are safer because we drive the routes and provide transport of food, drink and broken bikes and riders.
Sure, someone else could do it for pay, but why not exchange some services, for a T-Shirt that you can wear around the house, and a good time using Amateur Radio to talk to your friends, to boot.
Gregg Wonderly
On Tue, 2011-10-25 at 09:53 -0500, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
Art, there is no conflict in you using Amateur Radio as a hobby. The conflict is in the exact "meaning" of each of the words in the subject line. The capitalization of "Is a HOBBY", puts the emphasis on "is" and "hobby", which for me says that there is no "other part." I enjoy many hobby parts of Amateur
Are you for real? Just checking. You are really spending valuable time of your day to dissect a posting to a mailing list word by word and nitpick about it? WOW!
Mike K5TRI
On 10/25/2011 10:09 AM, Michael Schulz wrote:
On Tue, 2011-10-25 at 09:53 -0500, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
Art, there is no conflict in you using Amateur Radio as a hobby. The conflict is in the exact "meaning" of each of the words in the subject line. The capitalization of "Is a HOBBY", puts the emphasis on "is" and "hobby", which for me says that there is no "other part." I enjoy many hobby parts of Amateur
Are you for real? Just checking. You are really spending valuable time of your day to dissect a posting to a mailing list word by word and nitpick about it? WOW!
Mike, I do computer software for a living, and every single character, word and symbol is important to the meaning of what I type. I've been using the internet since the 80's when I was in college, reading peoples posts, and in fact understanding a great deal of what people really mean by reading what they type. Its not easy to glean exact meanings from what people type. But, the subject line, for me, is a big indicator of what is going to be in the post.
Certainly you can be amazed at my attention to details that are not important to you. And you can decide what value it is to you for me to do that. But in the end, I'm serious about what the amateur radio service really is, and if you don't think that there is any "service" required, and you can just play about and have fun and not give back in any way, then go for it. No one can stop you...
Gregg Wonderly
I thought Damon ordered this topic executed a few hours ago...
DO NOT make him get the AO-51 Goat out to take care of this problem...
Now then, what ever happened to SO-67...they were on to fixing it I thought
73 K7TRK
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Gregg Wonderly Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 7:54 AM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people
On 10/23/2011 11:55 PM, Art McBride wrote:
Greg, It is the Amateur Radio Service. It does have 5 purposes as quoted in Part 97.1
If you buy supplies and work on something you enjoy doing it is called a hobby.
If you do it to establish a business we call it work.
We are Amateurs because we receive no compensation for our efforts, not because we are unprofessional.
So where is the conflict?
Politicians are famous for finding the facts to support their conclusions.
I prefer to have all of the cards on the table.
Art, there is no conflict in you using Amateur Radio as a hobby. The conflict is in the exact "meaning" of each of the words in the subject line. The capitalization of "Is a HOBBY", puts the emphasis on "is" and "hobby", which for me says that there is no "other part." I enjoy many hobby parts of Amateur Radio. But, I also believe that the service part is very important to my community. I live in Oklahoma where 4 out of 12 months of the year we have tornadoes as a huge threat, and 2 other months out of the year we have a chance for huge ice storms. So, 1/2 of my year is subject to weather events that may require some form of support for the Amateur Radio community. It's a big deal for the local Tulsa NWS office, that we have built a large UHF linked repeater system that covers pretty much all of their responsibility area. They can get direct reports from the local EOC offices from their local spotters on their VHF nets to confirm things they see on radar to be able to get a "Tornado Warning" out ASAP. Every single extra second saves lives.
Thus, in my state, our club and its members can help by keeping equipment and agreements in place so that this system can function. When it's not needed for storm spotting, it works great for wide area bike ride support. We have about 10 different significant bicycle events with 100 mile rides in this area each year. Those people are staying in good health and enjoying the out doors. I like the outdoors too, so going out to help is not a problem for me. I've just had family events with my daughters in Marching Band contests for the past 6
years, and that has kept me from being able to support the 3 big events of the fall (MS-150, Tulsa Tough, Dam Jam) or the others in between. People are safer because we drive the routes and provide transport of food, drink and broken bikes and riders.
Sure, someone else could do it for pay, but why not exchange some services, for a T-Shirt that you can wear around the house, and a good time using Amateur Radio to talk to your friends, to boot.
Gregg Wonderly _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Deane" summit496@live.com To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:33 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] This Is a HOBBY people
As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant posts, I want to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY!
Amateur Radio.
Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
Kevin KF7MYK
Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the following :
ARTICLE Nr1
3.34 Amateur Service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training , intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is,by duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
3.35 Amateur Satellite Service: A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.
As you can realize the Amateur Service and the Amateur Satellite Service are not defined as an "HOBBY" but as a "SERVICE" for self-training , intercommunication and technical investigations activity and this is why we receive the permission to use the radio frequency spectrum at no cost because the technical knowledge that one of us get with the Amateur Service is a profit at zero cost for the Community.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Op 24-10-2011 13:05, i8cvs schreef:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Deane"summit496@live.com To:amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:33 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] This Is a HOBBY people
As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant posts, I want to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY!
Amateur Radio.
Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
Kevin KF7MYK
Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the following :
ARTICLE Nr1
3.34 Amateur Service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training , intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is,by duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.
3.35 Amateur Satellite Service: A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service.
As you can realize the Amateur Service and the Amateur Satellite Service are not defined as an "HOBBY" but as a "SERVICE" for self-training , intercommunication and technical investigations activity and this is why we receive the permission to use the radio frequency spectrum at no cost because the technical knowledge that one of us get with the Amateur Service is a profit at zero cost for the Community.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The problem with these definitions is that the ITU defines all radio users as services, even CB falls under land mobile services. Guess CB is not a hobby too.
73 Andre PE1RDW
----- Original Message ----- From: "Andre" sats@pe1rdw.demon.nl To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 2:25 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people
Op 24-10-2011 13:05, i8cvs schreef:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Deane"summit496@live.com To:amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 10:33 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] This Is a HOBBY people
As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant posts, I want to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY!
Amateur Radio.
Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
Kevin KF7MYK
Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the following :
ARTICLE Nr1
3.34 Amateur Service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training
,
intercommunication and technical investigations carried out
by
amateurs, that is,by duly authorized persons interested in
radio
technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.3.35 Amateur Satellite Service: A radiocommunication service using space stations on earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur
service.
As you can realize the Amateur Service and the Amateur Satellite Service are not defined as an "HOBBY" but as a "SERVICE" for self-training , intercommunication and technical investigations activity and this is why we receive the permission to use the radio frequency spectrum at no cost because the technical knowledge that one of us get with the Amateur Service is a profit at zero cost for the Community.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The problem with these definitions is that the ITU defines all radio users as services, even CB falls under land mobile services. Guess CB is not a hobby too.
73 Andre PE1RDW
Hi Andre, PE1RDW
I don't have at hand the ITU definitions for "land mobile services" but this services are only for intercommunication and not for the purposes of self-training ,and technical investigations in radio technique as is the Amateur Service and the Amateur Satellite Service.
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200 "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the following :
And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC regulations, because they are irrelevant. If the FCC and ARRL want to turn amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great. Don't pollute *my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.
The IARU trumps the FCC.
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 05:21:34PM +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200 "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the following :
And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC regulations, because they are irrelevant. If the FCC and ARRL want to turn amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great. Don't pollute *my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.
The IARU trumps the FCC.
Amateur radio is a fun hobby, don't pretend it is a police ancillary service, that was never the intent. If you happen to be with radio and you can help it is your obligation to help.
-- Gordon JC Pearce MM0YEQ gordonjcp@gjcp.net
- Diane Bruce VA3DB
On 10/24/2011 11:44 AM, Diane Bruce wrote:
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 05:21:34PM +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200 "i8cvs"domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the following :
And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC regulations, because they are irrelevant. If the FCC and ARRL want to turn amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great. Don't pollute *my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.
The IARU trumps the FCC.
Amateur radio is a fun hobby, don't pretend it is a police ancillary service, that was never the intent. If you happen to be with radio and you can help it is your obligation to help.
The Amateur Radio service is the service. The FCC regs say that. I you take your equipment, knowledge (knowledge is required) and skills to use as a hobby, more power too you. But Amateur Radio is not "just a HOBBY". There are services which you can and should provide as your skills and knowledge allow you to. Making a choice to not participate in the service part, is your choice, no one can make you do that. But, how other amateurs see you and treat you may be driven by your desire to "just have a HOBBY" and ride the coat tails of the others who are making the service really be a value to your community.
EMCOMM is something that we all have opportunities to help with. Many times, you may not be needed. But, it's another aspect of your skill set that you can improve on through experience. If you just want to rag chew and consume a frequency, then you can do that. But it is little effort to occasionally sign up for an EMCOMM or community event and provide some help so that others who want to sit down and ragchew and enjoy the HOBBY part of their lives can do that too.
Gregg Wonderly W5GGW
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 06:36:47PM -0500, Gregg Wonderly wrote:
...
Amateur radio is a fun hobby, don't pretend it is a police ancillary service, that was never the intent. If you happen to be with radio and you can help it is your obligation to help.
The Amateur Radio service is the service. The FCC regs say that. I you take your equipment, knowledge (knowledge is required) and skills to use as a hobby, more power too you. But Amateur Radio is not "just a HOBBY".
Yes it is. It is ONLY a freakin' Hobby. If we want kids in our freakin' HOBBY we need to make it *FUN*. Learning stuff, radio stuff, building stuff learning what radio is how antennas work. All that stuff.
There are services which you can and should provide as your skills and knowledge allow you to. Making a choice to not participate in the service
And that is the marketable skill. Many many hams are also computer types, physicists, engineers.
part, is your choice, no one can make you do that. But, how other amateurs see you and treat you may be driven by your desire to "just have a HOBBY" and ride the coat tails of the others who are making the service really be a value to your community.
EMCOMM is something that we all have opportunities to help with. Many
No, EMCOMM is the cancer that is eating Amateur Radio.
times, you may not be needed. But, it's another aspect of your skill set that you can improve on through experience. If you just want to rag chew and consume a frequency, then you can do that. But it is little effort to occasionally sign up for an EMCOMM or community event and provide some help so that others who want to sit down and ragchew and enjoy the HOBBY part of their lives can do that too.
I have signed up to help community events, I have done my share. many times. I have done my share of many hours of CW traffic handling. I learned a lot about how to run nets both on CW and SSB.
But EMCOMM is still not the only reason someone should be getting into amateur radio. EMCOMM is what discourages the youth of today from particpating in ham radio. Get the kids in, get them excited, get them interested in DSP combining radio and computers, show them FUN. Don't sell them on EMCOMM.
Turn it the other way around. Both the RAC and the ARRL have been hard selling EMCOMM for years. How well has that worked for bringing in the younger ham?
Sorry Greg, we ain't going to see eye to eye on this one.
Please re-read what I have said. I am not against being ready to help in community service. I have DONE SO many times. I am not against being ready to help in an emergency. I am on the local emrg list if that (hopefully never) ever happens, I will and can show up and do my bit as a communicator. I did not get into ham radio to stand in the cold on a rainy day to help some bicycle tour. I got into ham radio because I was interested in how RADIO worked. It also served me well career wise.
All I am trying to say is we need to restore a bit of balance. That's all.
Gregg Wonderly W5GGW _______________________________________________
Diane Bruce VA3DB
At 11:26 AM 10/25/2011, Diane Bruce wrote:
Yes it is. It is ONLY a freakin' Hobby. If we want kids in our freakin' HOBBY we need to make it *FUN*. Learning stuff, radio stuff, building stuff learning what radio is how antennas work. All that stuff.
Agree with the "fun" bit, but "fun" can be defined in so many ways, so whatever floats your boat, if it's to do with ham radio, all's well and good. Everything you've listed... and more!
There are services which you can and should provide as your skills and knowledge allow you to. Making a choice to not participate in the service
And that is the marketable skill. Many many hams are also computer types, physicists, engineers.
Who knows where ham radio skills come in handy. Just came back from a local incident, where a key part of the infrastructure failed. I was probably the first to recognise the nature of the problem, though not able to directly help at the time (due to only having a receiver in the car). Eventually, another channel was found, and I helped out with testing to ensure it would be workable until the network is fixed.
EMCOMM is something that we all have opportunities to help with. Many
No, EMCOMM is the cancer that is eating Amateur Radio.
No, EMCOMM is just another aspect of the hobby. It works for some, not for others.
But EMCOMM is still not the only reason someone should be getting into amateur radio. EMCOMM is what discourages the youth of today from particpating in ham radio. Get the kids in, get them excited, get them interested in DSP combining radio and computers, show them FUN. Don't sell them on EMCOMM.
It's not the ONLY reason to get involved, but for some it is A reason. I agree that the exciting technical developments such as DSP and SDR should be promoted to the younger generation, as well as all of the "How it works" and DYI that you can get into. And for others, the thrill of catching that rare DX is the excitement (though not high on my personal priority list). Others will be interested in the Internet connected modes (IRLP, Echolink, D-STAR, etc), and some will be drawn to the simplicity and uniqueness of Morse Code, or perhaps operating old boat anchors on AM. All aspects of the hobby need to be promoted, people will find their own personal reasons to join in... or not. And yes, there will be a small number civic minded young people who want to be able to get into EMCOMM. We just have to make sure we don't sell ourselves short.
73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
notice how after dominco got this all stired up, he stops participating. cant wait until he funds the launch of a heo for us.
73...bruce
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 24, 2011, at 6:36 PM, Gregg Wonderly w5ggw@cox.net wrote:
On 10/24/2011 11:44 AM, Diane Bruce wrote:
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 05:21:34PM +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200 "i8cvs"domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the following :
And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC regulations, because they are irrelevant. If the FCC and ARRL want to turn amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great. Don't pollute *my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.
The IARU trumps the FCC.
Amateur radio is a fun hobby, don't pretend it is a police ancillary service, that was never the intent. If you happen to be with radio and you can help it is your obligation to help.
The Amateur Radio service is the service. The FCC regs say that. I you take your equipment, knowledge (knowledge is required) and skills to use as a hobby, more power too you. But Amateur Radio is not "just a HOBBY". There are services which you can and should provide as your skills and knowledge allow you to. Making a choice to not participate in the service part, is your choice, no one can make you do that. But, how other amateurs see you and treat you may be driven by your desire to "just have a HOBBY" and ride the coat tails of the others who are making the service really be a value to your community.
EMCOMM is something that we all have opportunities to help with. Many times, you may not be needed. But, it's another aspect of your skill set that you can improve on through experience. If you just want to rag chew and consume a frequency, then you can do that. But it is little effort to occasionally sign up for an EMCOMM or community event and provide some help so that others who want to sit down and ragchew and enjoy the HOBBY part of their lives can do that too.
Gregg Wonderly W5GGW _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce" kk5do@amsat.org To: w5ggw@wonderly.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:56 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people
notice how after dominco got this all stired up, he stops participating. cant wait until he funds the launch of a heo for us.
73...bruce
Hi Bruce, KK5DO
Well, AMSAT-DL is working hard to find a possibility to launch P3-E, most likely along with P5.
They recently had a surprisingly positive meeting with the head of DLR and members of their Ministry, another meeting was request by them for next month.
Keep in mind, that it also took more than 10 years to launch P3-D, but indeed it's a long way since AO-40,,,
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
Sorry Domenico,
At this point having a "positive meeting" does nothing for P3-E. P5 is only a valid option in the future if it is designed for a moon orbit. The Mars option is an amateur radio user nightmare and ill conceived. Any CubeSat will do more for us than a P5 around Mars because of the hardware requirements for the majority of amateur radio satellite operators. Thanks, but I believe it when I see it and I don't see it and that's why I stopped to support it.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 8:44 PM, i8cvs domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce" kk5do@amsat.org To: w5ggw@wonderly.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 2:56 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: This Is a HOBBY people
notice how after dominco got this all stired up, he stops participating. cant wait until he funds the launch of a heo for us.
73...bruce
Hi Bruce, KK5DO
Well, AMSAT-DL is working hard to find a possibility to launch P3-E, most likely along with P5.
They recently had a surprisingly positive meeting with the head of DLR and members of their Ministry, another meeting was request by them for next month.
Keep in mind, that it also took more than 10 years to launch P3-D, but indeed it's a long way since AO-40,,,
73" de
i8CVS Domenico
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Op 25-10-2011 1:36, Gregg Wonderly schreef:
The Amateur Radio service is the service.
All radio users are services. Even CB and FRS are services, heck it is in the acrynom of FRS Family Radio *Service*
the only difference between Amateur radio services and CB etc. from ITU points of view is that Amateur radio is it's own services while CB and other simular services are gathered under mobile service, along with military. And no licence is not the distinction, Netherlands and I think several other countries have amatuer radio service as licence free under conditions with registration, one of the conditions being the need to pass a test.
73 Andre PE1RDW
Andre,
On Oct 25, 2011, at 4:47 AM, Andre wrote:
Op 25-10-2011 1:36, Gregg Wonderly schreef:
The Amateur Radio service is the service.
All radio users are services. Even CB and FRS are services, heck it is in the acrynom of FRS Family Radio *Service*
Don't destroy hope for the people who felt so special. Now you took it all away and they became mere mortals with nothing to distinguish themselves from the masses anymore because .. yuck .. Amateur Radio and CB are both services? :). *SCNR*
73 Mike K5TRI
Disclaimer for the sarcasm challenged: It was just that, sarcasm. No need to cry and start whining again. You can of course send nasty complaints to my email at /dev/null.
On 10/25/2011 4:47 AM, Andre wrote:
Op 25-10-2011 1:36, Gregg Wonderly schreef:
The Amateur Radio service is the service.
All radio users are services. Even CB and FRS are services, heck it is in the acrynom of FRS Family Radio *Service*
The word service is not the primary issue Andre. It's the text of the FCC part 97 regulations which describe what the amateur radio service licensee is charged with. The text says that the services of the amateur are important to the communities around them, and to the art and science of radio based communication's evolution. It says that there are things we can do that will be real and valuable and that's why the allocation of the spectrum to our use is viable.
I find it really amazing how hard it is to convince people that in this free world, we all need to work together and sometimes that means you need to do something that helps someone else. Why that is so hard for some people I am just not sure. I guess if you want to have more taxes to pay, you could wait for someone from the government to be charged to do everything. Then, I guess, we wouldn't need to have Amateur Radio frequencies for our use. One could imagine that they'd go ahead and usurp all of our spectrum back to make sure we didn't interfere with their ability to do their job, while we are all setting around talking about how great it is that we don't have to help...
Gregg Wonderly W5GGW
For those that may not be aware, EmComm is a contraction of the two words Emergency Communications, and as such is properly expressed as I have here. It is not an acronym, so expressing it as one (EMCOMM) can lead to one wondering what it expands to.
Presented for clarification only, since accurate communication is a fundamental element of most aspects of our hobby.
Cheers,
Dennis
The IARU is a consultative body, a place for the amateur societies to coordinate international activities where possible , not an international treaty organization with the ability to bind member country telecommunications law. It has no real power. We use it to do amateur satellite service frequency coordination and for all countries, groups, etc. that actually follow this procedure, it is helpful. Many do not.
The ITU maybe, but not the IARU, and the ITU hosts the World Adminstrative Radio Conference where treaties and the thousands of exceptions to any agreement are added and where any real power exists. WARC==important, IARU==sometimes useful. Those would be the ones that are like a George W. Bush "signing note". They sign but then say they won't obey.
Bob N4HY
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 12:21 PM, Gordon JC Pearce gordonjcp@gjcp.netwrote:
On Mon, 24 Oct 2011 13:05:22 +0200 "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:
Hi Kevin, KF7MYK
The official Definitios given by IARU ( the International Amateur Radio Union) for the Amateur Service and the Amateur-Satellite Service are the following :
And here you make an excellent point - there's no use trotting out the FCC regulations, because they are irrelevant. If the FCC and ARRL want to turn amateur radio into "all emcomm, all the time" then that's great. Don't pollute *my* enjoyment of the hobby with that rubbish, though.
The IARU trumps the FCC.
Hi, Bob!!
Ultimate authority rests with Member states (note the capital "M"), which have made an agreement (treaty) with each other. The treaty basis comes from the notion that if the various parties can't play well together, everyone will be harmed.
See: CONSTITUTION OF THE INTERNATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATION UNION
Preamble
1 While fully recognizing the sovereign right of each State to regulate its telecommunication and having regard to the growing importance of telecommunication for the preservation of peace and the economic and social development of all States … .
ITU, itself, serves only the functions agreed to by ITU Plenipotentiary Conferences and added to the International Telecommunication Convention, the treaty, and the radio regulations, which are annexed to the treaty and have the same status as the basic treaty.
The world expects more of amateurs than every other radiocommunication service, since all others involve specific notification and coordination requirements.
Amateurs have long been expected to manage and coordinate their own use of frequencies. "Listen before transmitting" works in many cases. Satellites need more.
This is why IARU provides satellite frequency coordination recommendations. Yes, these are only recommendations and participation is not required, unless required by a licensing administration. Anyone truly interested in the success of a project will participate in the process - to keep the probability of success high and the probability of causing problems low.
Make sense?
I hope this helps.
73, art….. W4ART/5 Houston TX
On 24-Oct-2011, at 11:52 AM, Robert McGwier wrote:
The IARU is a consultative body, a place for the amateur societies to coordinate international activities where possible , not an international treaty organization with the ability to bind member country telecommunications law. It has no real power. We use it to do amateur satellite service frequency coordination and for all countries, groups, etc. that actually follow this procedure, it is helpful. Many do not.
The ITU maybe, but not the IARU, and the ITU hosts the World Adminstrative Radio Conference where treaties and the thousands of exceptions to any agreement are added and where any real power exists. WARC==important, IARU==sometimes useful. Those would be the ones that are like a George W. Bush "signing note". They sign but then say they won't obey.
Kevin,
I'm afraid you have used improper terminology and upset the demigods of the satellite community.
Some relevant definitions from the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: - Leisure (n): time free from work or duties - Hobby (n): a pursuit outside one's regular occupation engaged in especially for relaxation - Amateur (n): one who engages in a pursuit, study, science, or sport as a pastime rather than as a profession
This quote sums up my thoughts about this unfortunate series of email threads:
"We have met the enemy and they is us." - Pogo Cartoon, Walt Kelly
73 Clayton W5PFG
On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Kevin Deane summit496@live.com wrote:
As much as I enjoy the banter, animosity and sometimes really brilliant posts, I want to remind everyone that this is a HOBBY!
Amateur Radio.
Shut up and have fun, some of you take this WAY TO SERIOUSLY.
Kevin KF7MYK
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participants (17)
-
Andre -
Art McBride -
Bruce -
Clayton Coleman W5PFG -
Dennis Griffin -
Diane Bruce -
Gordon JC Pearce -
Gregg Wonderly -
Gregg Wonderly -
i8cvs -
Kevin Deane -
Michael Schulz -
Robert McGwier -
Stefan Wagener -
Ted -
Tony Langdon -
W4ART Arthur Feller