Re: K5D an embarrassment / poor operating procedure.
W9VNE said:
Unfortunately the operation of AO 51 is a large embarrassment. I have never in 56 years of operating ever seen demonstrated such poor operating procedures.
I'd be happy if people would just use the proper phonetic alphabet. So many logs have been messed up by "kilowatt" which is KW to me, as opposed to the correct "kilo" and the other bizarre appellations of letters. And it's not just on satellites that this is a problem. When I hear something like "Kilowatt Capacitor Eight United Airlines" (made up example, if you are KC8UAL, I'm not picking on you or accusing you) I can pretty much guarantee it won't end up correct in the logs. That makes it a non-QSO and a waste of time for both ends.
Combine proper phonetic use with "listen before transmitting" and 90% or better of the issues we see would go away.
73 de VE3OIJ -Darin
Darin Cowan wrote:
W9VNE said:
Unfortunately the operation of AO 51 is a large embarrassment. I have never in 56 years of operating ever seen demonstrated such poor operating procedures.
I'd be happy if people would just use the proper phonetic alphabet. So many logs have been messed up by "kilowatt" which is KW to me, as opposed to the correct "kilo" and the other bizarre appellations of letters. And it's not just on satellites that this is a problem. When I hear something like "Kilowatt Capacitor Eight United Airlines" (made up example, if you are KC8UAL, I'm not picking on you or accusing you) I can pretty much guarantee it won't end up correct in the logs. That makes it a non-QSO and a waste of time for both ends.
Combine proper phonetic use with "listen before transmitting" and 90% or better of the issues we see would go away.
I am often guilty of not using the correct phonetics, but I do have a reason. 95% of the time, if the other station has marginal reception, they come back as VE5, not VA5. I think it's just the other ops' brain filling in the blanks with what they expect to hear, so I will correct as "Victor America 5" and it usually seems to solve that problem. I do try to stick with the ITU phonetics 99% of the time though.
I'd be happy with people just doing the listen before you transmit thing. I can't count the number of times I've had my transmissions cut off mid exchange.
I would also add to that the following: If you can't hear the bird, don't transmit! I have NEVER had a situation where I can't hear the sat. Even when the satellite is coming down from the north and no one else is in the footprint, the background noise changes when it comes into range.
Hopefully with my preamps arriving today (gotta pick them up after work), I will be able to use the linear birds a bit. Maybe relieve some pressure on the FM sats.
73 all, and see you on the satellites.
-- Sean - VA5LF
The NATO/ITU phonetics aren't perfect. The "DXer's" phonetics (mostly place names) are a reasonable alternative, but only the two sets should be used. When I'm working 'phone, when I've got it together, I try to repeat back using the other set. And I hate Kilowatt, too- I always hear that as "KW".
73, doug
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:21:47 -0600 From: Sean Cavanaugh seanc@unixgeeks.ca
Darin Cowan wrote:
W9VNE said:
Unfortunately the operation of AO 51 is a large embarrassment. I have never in 56 years of operating ever seen demonstrated such poor operating procedures.
I'd be happy if people would just use the proper phonetic alphabet. So many logs have been messed up by "kilowatt" which is KW to me, as opposed to the correct "kilo" and the other bizarre appellations of letters. And it's not just on satellites that this is a problem. When I hear something like "Kilowatt Capacitor Eight United Airlines" (made up example, if you are KC8UAL, I'm not picking on you or accusing you) I can pretty much guarantee it won't end up correct in the logs. That makes it a non-QSO and a waste of time for both ends.
Combine proper phonetic use with "listen before transmitting" and 90% or better of the issues we see would go away.
I am often guilty of not using the correct phonetics, but I do have a reason. 95% of the time, if the other station has marginal reception, they come back as VE5, not VA5. I think it's just the other ops' brain filling in the blanks with what they expect to hear, so I will correct as "Victor America 5" and it usually seems to solve that problem. I do try to stick with the ITU phonetics 99% of the time though.
You use the phonetics that work. If your call gets busted the same way on a regular basis it is time to change things up. My call is kk0sd. When I say kilo kilo zero sierra delta, the station always comes back k0sd when I say kilowatt kilowatt zero sierra delta they get it right every time.
73,
Joe kk0sd
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 1:38 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: K5D an embarrassment / poor operating procedure.
The NATO/ITU phonetics aren't perfect. The "DXer's" phonetics (mostly place names) are a reasonable alternative, but only the two sets should be used. When I'm working 'phone, when I've got it together, I try to repeat back using the other set. And I hate Kilowatt, too- I always hear that as "KW".
73, doug
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:21:47 -0600 From: Sean Cavanaugh seanc@unixgeeks.ca
Darin Cowan wrote:
W9VNE said:
Unfortunately the operation of AO 51 is a large embarrassment. I have never in 56 years of operating ever seen demonstrated such poor operating procedures.
I'd be happy if people would just use the proper phonetic alphabet. So
many
logs have been messed up by "kilowatt" which is KW to me, as opposed to
the
correct "kilo" and the other bizarre appellations of letters. And it's
not
just on satellites that this is a problem. When I hear something like "Kilowatt Capacitor Eight United Airlines" (made up example, if you are KC8UAL, I'm not picking on you or accusing you) I can pretty much
guarantee
it won't end up correct in the logs. That makes it a non-QSO and a
waste of
time for both ends.
Combine proper phonetic use with "listen before transmitting" and 90%
or
better of the issues we see would go away.
I am often guilty of not using the correct phonetics, but I do have a reason. 95% of the time, if the other station has marginal reception, they come back as VE5, not VA5. I think it's just the other ops' brain filling in the blanks with what they expect to hear, so I will correct as "Victor America 5" and it usually seems to solve that problem. I do try to stick with the ITU phonetics 99% of the time though. _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sean Cavanaugh [mailto:seanc@unixgeeks.ca] wrote:
Darin Cowan wrote:
I'd be happy if people would just use the proper phonetic alphabet. So
many
logs have been messed up by "kilowatt" which is KW to me, as opposed to
the
correct "kilo" and the other bizarre appellations of letters.
...[deletia]...
Combine proper phonetic use with "listen before transmitting" and 90% or better of the issues we see would go away.
I am often guilty of not using the correct phonetics, but I do have a reason. 95% of the time, if the other station has marginal reception, they come back as VE5, not VA5. I think it's just the other ops' brain filling in the blanks with what they expect to hear, so I will correct as "Victor America 5" and it usually seems to solve that problem. I do try to stick with the ITU phonetics 99% of the time though.
VA and VE is a constant bugbear for me. My hearing is less than excellent, and to me VEE AY and VEE EEE sound essentially the same. I have to ask for phonetics even on local repeaters. Some of the incorrect phonetics are more obvious (America for A) but I've heard United Airlines (Is it UAL or UA?), Kilowatt (that's KW for someone with an electrical or physics background) and other perversions of the phonetic alphabet that - when combined with a local speaker's accent, make it effectively unintelligible.
I will always be Oscar India Juliet, never Old Injun Joe.
I would also add to that the following: If you can't hear the bird, don't transmit!
That's certainly wisdom to be followed.
73 de VE3OIJ -Darin
On 24 Feb 2009 at 12:28, Darin Cowan wrote:
W9VNE said:
Unfortunately the operation of AO 51 is a large embarrassment. I have never in 56 years of operating ever seen demonstrated such poor operating procedures.
On the actual amateur satellite fleet AO-51 is the most controversial satellite since the first day he was on the air. Some says it was the poorest choice ever made by AMSAT-NA some other says it was a newbie sat but both and many agree it is the "madness sat" making each and every user mad at times.
There is the commander in chief who want to drill the troups There is the humanist who pray to have some humanity There is teacher who wants more teaching There is the king of the grids who want this new one at any cost There is the long rag chewer and his body always there on each and every full pass There is king of the QRP with his micro micro watt micro HT and his hair pin duckie yelling in the middle of a brass section band There is the QRP master who is still dreaming awake of an ideal and perfect QRP world There is the guiness certificate QSO number record chaser looking for his next 10000 plus one QSO just stepping over the QRP boring noise. There is the former moon bouncer using his setup on the birds There is the frustrating ones who blow wistle knock on some pass There is the ultimate problems solvers who never succeed in solving anything.
And all of them on a SINGLE CHANNEL
There is me listening silently remembering that i was so lucky to operate on a HEO called AO-40 There is all the others who believe that we will al ended up back to HF pretty soon.
From an optimistic guy.
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
participants (5)
-
Darin Cowan -
Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 -
Gary "Joe" Mayfield -
Luc Leblanc -
Sean Cavanaugh