I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F. 7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.
And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?
IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.
Bill W1PA
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Exactly. Why anyone would think that an FM bird in LEO is a viable means of emergency communications is beyond me. And then past that if it was the "only means left" why anyone would be surprised that the people needing the comm capability (such as it is) are not going to use whatever ERP it is going to take to get into the bird is beyond me as well.
Most of the complaints strike me as silly. With the technical limitations of an FM bird in LEO the notion of expecting anything different then what exist now is almost tooth fairy like. In the end if FM birds are what the folks and organizations who build satellites want to launch, this is the kind of "operating" environment that they are going to encourage. The argument that "we have to build satellites" that are popular is self fulfilling.
Robert G. Oler WB5MZO (life member ARRL, AMSAT NARS)
From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
Robert, One or two contacts during an emergency could be life or death to someone. The contact that gets through at the right time is the only one that counts.
FO 29 and VO52 are so lightly populated that you most always hear yourself and on one else. But on Field Day there is blood in the water and the sharks are feeding! Art,KC6UQH -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of R Oler Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:40 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Cc: Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Exactly. Why anyone would think that an FM bird in LEO is a viable means of emergency communications is beyond me. And then past that if it was the "only means left" why anyone would be surprised that the people needing the comm capability (such as it is) are not going to use whatever ERP it is going to take to get into the bird is beyond me as well.
Most of the complaints strike me as silly. With the technical limitations of an FM bird in LEO the notion of expecting anything different then what exist now is almost tooth fairy like. In the end if FM birds are what the folks and organizations who build satellites want to launch, this is the kind of "operating" environment that they are going to encourage. The argument that "we have to build satellites" that are popular is self fulfilling.
Robert G. Oler WB5MZO (life member ARRL, AMSAT NARS)
From: [email protected] To: [email protected] CC: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such. My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it really wasn't one.
All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff. Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially those of rovers.
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the scores in QST!
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' [email protected] wrote:
Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such. My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it really wasn't one.
All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff. Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially those of rovers.
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth
is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Read the AMSAT rules. The title of the AMSAT rules IS clear when you read the title as "2011 AMSAT Field Day Competition ".
Tim - N8DEU
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" [email protected] To: "STeve Andre'" [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the scores in QST!
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' [email protected] wrote:
Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such. My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it really wasn't one.
All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff. Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially those of rovers.
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth
is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
True but Fd is an ARRL event and has nowt to do with AMSAT.
On 27/06/11 22:49, Tim Cunningham wrote:
Read the AMSAT rules. The title of the AMSAT rules IS clear when you read the title as "2011 AMSAT Field Day Competition ".
Tim - N8DEU
Do we really need to write more and/or change the rules. We just need to obey the rules we learned a long time ago. Really, aren't the rules that govern Amateur Radio Etiquette similar to the same rules that we learned in Kindergarten? "These are the things I learned: Share everything. Play fair. Don't hit people. Put things back where you found them. Clean up your own mess. Don't take things that aren't yours. Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody. Wash your hands before you eat. Flush. Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you. Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some. Take a nap every afternoon. When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together. Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that. Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we. And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK." Everything you need to know about Ham Radio and life in general is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living. [Source: "ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN" by Robert Fulghum]
;-)) And here's to wishing you a Happy Field Day 2012! Chuck, KM9U
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Cunningham" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 17:49 Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Read the AMSAT rules. The title of the AMSAT rules IS clear when you read the title as "2011 AMSAT Field Day Competition ".
Tim - N8DEU
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" [email protected] To: "STeve Andre'" [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the scores in QST!
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' [email protected] wrote:
Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such. My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it really wasn't one.
All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff. Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially those of rovers.
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth
is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Do we really need to write more and/or change the rules. We just need to obey the rules we learned a long time ago. Really, aren't the rules that govern Amateur Radio Etiquette similar to the same rules that we learned in Kindergarten?
This is what I am beginning to wonder. I think I have about 20 emails now with this subject. To be quite honest, I think everyone makes too big a deal out of "satellite field day." I made one (1) satellite QSO during the entire event to get the 100 points for our club - the QSO was not rushed, I had plenty of room, and I was only running 5w as usual. IMO, the issue at hand is that everyone plans on making 100+ QSOs on FD via satellites. That is 199 points. 100 for the first, then 1 per QSO. You may as well spend your time on HF which is not so crowded, or better yet, do CW and/or digital and you get 2 points/QSO. Why get so worked up over an extra few points? Get the first 100 and be done.
Secondly, you can't go into FD expecting everyone to 1) obey rules, 2) give you the right-of-way, and 3) expect to make more than one sat QSO. You need to worry more about strategizing. I was on the afternoon passes on Saturday, but I did not go into it expecting any QSOs. It was insane, but I expected it to be. Use a strategy and look for the quieter passes. We obviously didn't get anything on Saturday, so we did an overnight SO50 pass. There were very few on, and we could have very easily made a QSO, but I was having some receive issues. We tried again on AO51 Sunday morning, and we got our QSO without issue. Look for the overnight, early morning, AND LOW PASSES. If you live on the east coast, hit the eastern passes; if you live in the west, hit the western passes; if you live in central US, improve you receive setup so you can work AOS and LOS, which are generally quiet. Use some strategy and drop the expectations.
Just my 2 cents...
Hopefully everyone had an enjoyable FD in spite of the busy passes. I enjoyed seeing some familiar calls get logged. I watched Jeff, KB2M, get logged, and I also got to work Chris, N1BSA. I am sure I worked more of you, but everyone was using unfamiliar club calls. Our club was running 4A with an additional 6m station (which made 114 QSOs by itself compared to 35 last year!), and we ended up with a little over 1600 QSOs. The call was W8CBF if any of you have good memories....
The Ohio section manager Frank, KI8GW, also stopped by the club and enjoyed dinner with us. This was his second year in a row stopping by. The club is comprised of about 3-4 elmers and about 20+ kids ranging from 5-25. Some have more experience than others. Frank really enjoys seeing the youth get more active, and we enjoy being able to host him!
Does anyone else have any cool brags and/or something noteworthy (or not noteworthy) that occurred on FD? I personally don't see any need to continue the subject about the poor operating practice. What is done is done, just plan for next year.
73!
Zack KD8KSN
-----Original Message----- From: KM9U Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 6:30 PM To: Tim Cunningham ; [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Do we really need to write more and/or change the rules. We just need to obey the rules we learned a long time ago. Really, aren't the rules that govern Amateur Radio Etiquette similar to the same rules that we learned in Kindergarten? "These are the things I learned: Share everything. Play fair. Don't hit people. Put things back where you found them. Clean up your own mess. Don't take things that aren't yours. Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody. Wash your hands before you eat. Flush. Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you. Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some. Take a nap every afternoon. When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together. Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that. Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we. And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK." Everything you need to know about Ham Radio and life in general is in there somewhere. The Golden Rule and love and basic sanitation. Ecology and politics and equality and sane living. [Source: "ALL I REALLY NEED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN" by Robert Fulghum]
;-)) And here's to wishing you a Happy Field Day 2012! Chuck, KM9U
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Cunningham" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 17:49 Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Read the AMSAT rules. The title of the AMSAT rules IS clear when you read the title as "2011 AMSAT Field Day Competition ".
Tim - N8DEU
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" [email protected] To: "STeve Andre'" [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the scores in QST!
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' [email protected] wrote:
Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such. My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it really wasn't one.
All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff. Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially those of rovers.
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth
is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I can handle that... next year it will be "2012 AMSAT Field Day Emergency Preparedness"
73...bruce
________________________________ From: Tim Cunningham [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 4:49:06 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Read the AMSAT rules. The title of the AMSAT rules IS clear when you read the title as "2011 AMSAT Field Day Competition ".
Tim - N8DEU
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Geiger" [email protected] To: "STeve Andre'" [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:11 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Of course it isn't a contest. The best evidence is that they print the scores in QST!
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:09 PM, STeve Andre' [email protected] wrote:
Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such. My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it really wasn't one.
All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff. Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially those of rovers.
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth
is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
After all the hoopala settles. When/where else can you play with radios, go camping, go potty in the woods, get bug bites, have a good time with friends, and figure how all this stuff works. Because, just maybe, one day you'll have to do it for real!
still scratching bites
73 Bob W7LRD
Seattle
----- Original Message -----
From: "STeve Andre'" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 12:09:45 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such. My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it really wasn't one.
All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff. Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially those of rovers.
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Me, I'm recovering from bad sunburn. I look like a lobster ready for dinner...
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 15:40, Bob- W7LRD wrote:
After all the hoopala settles. When/where else can you play with radios, go camping, go potty in the woods, get bug bites, have a good time with friends, and figure how all this stuff works. Because, just maybe, one day you'll have to do it for real!
still scratching bites
73 Bob W7LRD
Seattle
*From: *"STeve Andre'" [email protected] *To: *[email protected] *Sent: *Monday, June 27, 2011 12:09:45 PM *Subject: *[amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
Well, is IS a contest, no matter what the ARRL says. People see it as such. My first FD before I was a ham, looked like a contest to me and it was only later, reading all the ARRL books I could get ahold of that I realized it really wasn't one.
All contests where you go outside are test runs for emergency stuff. Our club in Ann Arbor MI (Arrow Communication Association) does the summer vhf+ contests outside (6m-1296) and those have been a great way to figure out ways of doing stuff.
I would argue that the ARRL needs to change the way they talk, and offer FD as both a contest and exercise in communications, and speak of the exercise opportunities at the other contests, especially those of rovers.
--STeve Andre' wb8wsf en72
On 06/27/11 14:21, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the
bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
That is a good point. I am sure that if/when the big one hits and we need to pass emergency communications, we will have to do it under less than optimal conditions or "rules" including on the satellites. When such an occassion occurs, I doubt everyone will be limiting themselves to 5 watts or less, or only 1 QSO per satellite per day or weekend. I think most people will be trying to get through any way they can to pass traffic. We should get used to the pandamonium, that it what it will actually be like.
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Bob- W7LRD [email protected] wrote:
Because, just maybe, one day you'll have to do it for real!
OK, you want to play "Reality":
IN a mass-casualty disaster, I hope satellite users will be smart enough to "Restrict satellite use for emergency traffic". Each pass will be strictly controlled by a Net Control with closed-net protocols (no calls without permission of NC). NC WILL be traffic cop and it will be one at a time calling...offenders will be "visited by black suburbans and guys wearing sunglasses and padded suit coats"! ;-)
Seriously, under emcomm there WILL BE RULES and they will be ENFORCED...as they should be.
so there is there is no comparison with ham radio, as usual.
Another reality: historically, most ham radio emcomm is passed on HF or terrestrial VHF. My unsolicited opinion: digital-comms is where satellite will be most useful in emergency traffic.
73, Ed - KL7UW
At 11:54 AM 6/27/2011, John Geiger wrote:
That is a good point. I am sure that if/when the big one hits and we need to pass emergency communications, we will have to do it under less than optimal conditions or "rules" including on the satellites. When such an occassion occurs, I doubt everyone will be limiting themselves to 5 watts or less, or only 1 QSO per satellite per day or weekend. I think most people will be trying to get through any way they can to pass traffic. We should get used to the pandamonium, that it what it will actually be like.
73s John AA5JG
On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Bob- W7LRD [email protected] wrote:
Because, just maybe, one day you'll have to do it for real!
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73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-100w, 1296-60w, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [email protected] ======================================
Note that it says "additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit ***unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1*** " (emphasis mine), which you conveniently omitted. Rule 7.3.7.1 says "Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite." So yes, there IS such a rule.
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F. 7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.
Yes, so I read this to say: You can make as many satellite QSO's as you want. They count as another band, each counts for QSO credit. You get 100 bonus point when you make the first Only one QSO out of the total QSOs can come from any/all of the FM birds.
Could a lot of the "multi-QSO" issues have come from the fact that folks simply didn't understand the rules?
Bill W1PA
The intent of the rule was to reduce the congestion on the FM satellites by getting stations OFF them after making their one QSO, thereby giving more stations the opportunity to make a QSO. So the way I interpret it, and the way I've operated since the rule was adopted (and I was one of those who hounded the ARRL to adopt it), is "ONE and you're DONE."
Not two, or twenty, and you only get to SCORE one...
ONE.
George, KA3HSW
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Acito W1PA [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:59:09 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
[snip]
Yes, so I read this to say: You can make as many satellite QSO's as you want. They count as another band, each counts for QSO credit. You get 100 bonus point when you make the first Only one QSO out of the total QSOs can come from any/all of the FM birds.
Could a lot of the "multi-QSO" issues have come from the fact that folks simply didn't understand the rules?
Bill W1PA
One and done -- It's been several years, does anyone think it has worked???? Maybe it is time to reconsider. I know it has convinced us to drop a satellite station from our lineup. Kevin or I just do the hand and Arrow for ten minutes get a Q and then pack it up.
Joe kk0sd
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of George Henry Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:36 PM To: Bill Acito W1PA; [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
The intent of the rule was to reduce the congestion on the FM satellites by getting stations OFF them after making their one QSO, thereby giving more stations the opportunity to make a QSO. So the way I interpret it, and the way I've operated since the rule was adopted (and I was one of those who hounded the ARRL to adopt it), is "ONE and you're DONE."
Not two, or twenty, and you only get to SCORE one...
ONE.
George, KA3HSW
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Acito W1PA [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, June 27, 2011 3:59:09 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
[snip]
Yes, so I read this to say: You can make as many satellite QSO's as you want. They count as another band, each counts for QSO credit. You get 100 bonus point when you make the first Only one QSO out of the total QSOs can come from any/all of the FM birds.
Could a lot of the "multi-QSO" issues have come from the fact that folks simply didn't understand the rules?
Bill W1PA
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I know the ARRL says it is not a contest. but if you believe that I have a lovely swamp in Arizona to sell you.
I know many clubs that it is a MAJOR contest for them and some it's the onluy one they enter in.
Joe WB9SBD
The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 6/27/2011 1:21 PM, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
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I wish it was treated like a major contest by my local club-I might attend their FD setup then.
73s John AA5jG
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:22 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
I know the ARRL says it is not a contest. but if you believe that I have a lovely swamp in Arizona to sell you.
I know many clubs that it is a MAJOR contest for them and some it's the onluy one they enter in.
Joe WB9SBD
The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 6/27/2011 1:21 PM, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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My club event is usually quite social, but, we use logging software that has the name of the operator in it, and logs over the network. So, it's always visible, who's working and who's not. I sat down on two different bands on two different occasions for about 1.5 hours each, calling CQ using phone with W5OK. I worked nearly 400 stations doing that, and if I wanted to put in more time, I could have more than doubled that by going to other bands. I didn't use a keyer and I didn't use head phones.
If you want to contest, and want people around you to learn to contest, field day is a great time to go out and show people how to do 30 sec or less contacts. If the experienced and capable operators hide in the comfort of the house and work as a 1D, then field day will soon just be a contest from the house...
Gregg Wonderly W5GGW
On 6/27/2011 6:34 PM, John Geiger wrote:
I wish it was treated like a major contest by my local club-I might attend their FD setup then.
73s John AA5jG
----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe"[email protected] To:[email protected] Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 11:22 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
I know the ARRL says it is not a contest. but if you believe that I have a lovely swamp in Arizona to sell you.
I know many clubs that it is a MAJOR contest for them and some it's the onluy one they enter in.
Joe WB9SBD
The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 6/27/2011 1:21 PM, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Joe , The ARRL maintains that because they do not give awards it is not a contest. But like a duck they publish the scores with earned bonus points. Same deception we get from politicians that are also East of the Hudson!
Art, KC6UQH
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FD Mess
I know the ARRL says it is not a contest. but if you believe that I have a lovely swamp in Arizona to sell you.
I know many clubs that it is a MAJOR contest for them and some it's the onluy one they enter in.
Joe WB9SBD
The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 6/27/2011 1:21 PM, Nigel Gunn wrote:
A bigger FD problem is that FD is advertised as a chance to demonstrate your emergency comms ability to Joe Public. FD is NOT a contest so why are points and bonuses involved at all?
On 27/06/11 19:13, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I think we have to let go of the mantra that "any use of the bandwidth is
good use" with respect to "encouraging more satellite activity". Wasn't that the original intent of the "100 point bonus" items? To encourage specific activities - traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Ok,
The thought there was to promote activity.
OK fine, It's obvious that the FM birds do not have any sort of lack of activity.
So,,,,
How about for FD and the Amsat FD that the contest QSO's only count if they are made on a non FM bird?
That would cure the problem of the 11 meter FM birds and promote on the less used linear birds. It is still a bird QSO but in the spirit of when it was created when none of these FM birds even existed.
Joe WB9SBD
The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com
On 6/27/2011 1:13 PM, Bill Acito W1PA wrote:
I did not participate in FD this year, but I have certainly heard my share of them in recent years.
I think we have to let go of the mantra that “any use of the bandwidth is good use” with respect to “encouraging more satellite activity”. Wasn’t that the original intent of the “100 point bonus” items? To encourage specific activities – traffic handling, promotion, emergency power, etc.
The FM birds have fixed bandwidth -- nothing we can do. There is no mechanism to restrict FD stations to only one QSO on any FM bird. If you read the FD rules, you can make multiple contacts on the SSB birds, and they do count for QSO credit beyond the 100 point bonus – you can only make one QSO on any FM bird:
7.3.7. Satellite QSO: 100 bonus points for successfully completing at least one QSO via an amateur radio satellite during the Field Day period. "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" (Rule 3.7.2.), (the no-repeater QSO stipulation) is waived for satellite QSOs. Groups are allowed one dedicated satellite transmitter station without increasing their entry category. Satellite QSOs also count for regular QSO credit. Show them listed separately on the summary sheet as a separate "band." You do not receive an additional bonus for contacting different satellites, though the additional QSOs may be counted for QSO credit unless prohibited under Rule 7.3.7.1. The QSO must be between two Earth stations through a satellite. Available to Classes A, B, and F. 7.3.7.1 Stations are limited to one (1) completed QSO on any single channel FM satellite.
And there is certainly no mechanism to restrict the ERP that gets used. Is anyone really surprised it sounds like it does?
IMHO, I think it does more harm than good in promoting this aspect of the hobby, for a potential newbie to hear the FM birds on FD... restrict activity to the transponder (SSB/CW) birds and be done with it – no FM satellite QSO’s at all during FD. Or have it like the ARRL Bulletin --- RX only; copy some valid telemetry to get points.
Bill W1PA _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (17)
-
Art McBride -
Bill Acito W1PA -
Bob- W7LRD -
Bruce Paige -
Edward R. Cole -
Gary "Joe" Mayfield -
George Henry -
Gregg Wonderly -
Joe -
John Geiger -
KM9U -
Nigel A. Gunn -
Nigel Gunn
-
R Oler -
STeve Andre' -
Tim Cunningham -
Zachary Beougher