Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
... how many were made on SO-50 ...
You are missing the point - ESPECIALLY with the ISS and the upcoming AMSAT-NA FOX-1A project with its 2M downlink, providing up to 400mW TX power, and approximately 6db stronger receive signal than having a 440 downlink.
SO ... if one's more "simple" antenna is doing well now with SO-50 and the ISS, just imagine how exciting an educational project FOX-1A is going to be!
Clint Bradford K6LCS http://www.work-sat.com
Sure simple antennas work. DL7VTX just finished a vacation where he made many QSOs from PJ7, J7, PJ6, and FS on SO-50 with a TH-D7 and a 5/8 wave telescoping 2m whip. Let's keep in mind he was operating from islands, likely in spots where he had an excellent view of the horizon over the ocean and with virtually no RF noise. In other areas, a whip is not going to work as well.
You are right that a whip should work pretty well on Fox-1A, 1C, EO-80, etc.
But it depends what you are doing. Are you attempting to stretch the footprint to work sub-1 degree passes of AO-7 or FO-29 into Europe or South America? Are you trying to collect telemetry or command a satellite from AOS to LOS? If so, you probably want something like this new M2 offering.
You contributed to this thread because you wanted to make sure that people don't think you need a $500 antenna system to work LEOs - and that is true, but on the same token, a $15 tape measure antenna will produce disappointing results in most cases if someone is trying to make QSOs on SO-50.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Sunday, March 8, 2015, Clint Bradford [email protected] wrote:
... how many were made on SO-50 ...
You are missing the point - ESPECIALLY with the ISS and the upcoming AMSAT-NA FOX-1A project with its 2M downlink, providing up to 400mW TX power, and approximately 6db stronger receive signal than having a 440 downlink.
SO ... if one's more "simple" antenna is doing well now with SO-50 and the ISS, just imagine how exciting an educational project FOX-1A is going to be!
Clint Bradford K6LCS http://www.work-sat.com
Sent via [email protected] javascript:;. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
... You contributed to this thread because you wanted to make sure that people don't
think you need a $500 antenna system to work LEOs - and that is true, but on the same token, a $15 tape measure antenna will produce disappointing results in most cases if someone is trying to make QSOs on SO-50.
PRECISELY.
I believe that - properly marketed - AMSAT-NA could make more profit selling 500 tape measure beam kits this year at $25 retail to schools, individuals, and clubs - than the profit they will realize selling a handful of $500 antenna systems.
ESPECIALLY with the FOX projects coming up. What better way to get MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED in the satellites than to offer them an affordable and educational DIY antenna building project for their new satellites?
Clint Bradford
I agree Clint, and there is obviously room for both systems in our store.
When can I expect you to have the first batch ready to drop ship to the purchasers?
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Clint Bradford Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 7:02 PM To: Paul Stoetzer Cc: [email protected] Bradford; AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
... You contributed to this thread because you wanted to make sure that people don't
think you need a $500 antenna system to work LEOs - and that is true, but on the same token, a $15 tape measure antenna will produce disappointing results in most cases if someone is trying to make QSOs on SO-50.
PRECISELY.
I believe that - properly marketed - AMSAT-NA could make more profit selling 500 tape measure beam kits this year at $25 retail to schools, individuals, and clubs - than the profit they will realize selling a handful of $500 antenna systems.
ESPECIALLY with the FOX projects coming up. What better way to get MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED in the satellites than to offer them an affordable and educational DIY antenna building project for their new satellites?
Clint Bradford
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I'd buy one from the store just to try it.
73, KC6NHJ
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 4:14 PM To: 'Clint Bradford'; 'Paul Stoetzer' Cc: [email protected]; 'AMSAT BB' Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
I agree Clint, and there is obviously room for both systems in our store.
When can I expect you to have the first batch ready to drop ship to the purchasers?
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Clint Bradford Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 7:02 PM To: Paul Stoetzer Cc: [email protected] Bradford; AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
... You contributed to this thread because you wanted to make sure that people don't
think you need a $500 antenna system to work LEOs - and that is true, but on the same token, a $15 tape measure antenna will produce disappointing results in most cases if someone is trying to make QSOs on SO-50.
PRECISELY.
I believe that - properly marketed - AMSAT-NA could make more profit selling 500 tape measure beam kits this year at $25 retail to schools, individuals, and clubs - than the profit they will realize selling a handful of $500 antenna systems.
ESPECIALLY with the FOX projects coming up. What better way to get MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED in the satellites than to offer them an affordable and educational DIY antenna building project for their new satellites?
Clint Bradford
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
i have had the m2 11x2 2m circular and 15x2 70cm circular big antennas since 1993 and they have been great. however, this new antenna is even better as they are mounted by the end instead of the center of the boom. that means there should be almost zero clearance needed between the bottom of your rotor and the ground or a roof. although not ao-10/13 or ao-40 class antennas, there is no need for that much gain or directionality. just ordered one of these antennas and the crossboom is part of the kit. what could be better... well, they could come install them for me.
73...bruce
On 3/8/2015 8:20 PM, Mike wrote:
I'd buy one from the store just to try it.
73, KC6NHJ
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 4:14 PM To: 'Clint Bradford'; 'Paul Stoetzer' Cc: [email protected]; 'AMSAT BB' Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
I agree Clint, and there is obviously room for both systems in our store.
When can I expect you to have the first batch ready to drop ship to the purchasers?
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Clint Bradford Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 7:02 PM To: Paul Stoetzer Cc: [email protected] Bradford; AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
... You contributed to this thread because you wanted to make sure that people don't
think you need a $500 antenna system to work LEOs - and that is true, but on the same token, a $15 tape measure antenna will produce disappointing results in most cases if someone is trying to make QSOs on SO-50.
PRECISELY.
I believe that - properly marketed - AMSAT-NA could make more profit selling 500 tape measure beam kits this year at $25 retail to schools, individuals, and clubs - than the profit they will realize selling a handful of $500 antenna systems.
ESPECIALLY with the FOX projects coming up. What better way to get MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED in the satellites than to offer them an affordable and educational DIY antenna building project for their new satellites?
Clint Bradford
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 3/9/2015 9:25 AM, Bruce wrote:
i have had the m2 11x2 2m circular and 15x2 70cm circular big antennas since 1993 and they have been great. however, this new antenna is even better as they are mounted by the end instead of the center of the boom. that means there should be almost zero clearance needed between the bottom of your rotor and the ground or a roof. although not ao-10/13 or ao-40 class antennas, there is no need for that much gain or directionality. just ordered one of these antennas and the crossboom is part of the kit. what could be better... well, they could come install them for me.
Hard to do with the larger antennas due to weight load on a rotor. I did think about it but with the 22 element 2 meter and 44element UHF was just to much weight hanging on the rotor. Not to mention any wind load. We here is Missouri do get very strong winds at times.
John, W0JAB
I would not worry about wind loading, or weight with the yagi's John. When you have a need to put a 1+ meter dish on your cross boom, then you will worry about wind load. My last property in SNJ overlooking a 200 acre field near the ocean had some very windy conditions and it would catch the dish and move me off azimuth on several occasions. I thought it better to have a little give in the system rather than thru bolt everything. Much easier on the rotor system at 50+ MPH winds. I had my large KLM's plus a 55 L 1.2gig loop yagi, along with the 1 meter dish for almost 15 years with no issues...
73 Jeff kb2m
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Becker Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 11:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
On 3/9/2015 9:25 AM, Bruce wrote:
i have had the m2 11x2 2m circular and 15x2 70cm circular big antennas since 1993 and they have been great. however, this new antenna is even better as they are mounted by the end instead of the center of the boom. that means there should be almost zero clearance needed between the bottom of your rotor and the ground or a roof. although not ao-10/13 or ao-40 class antennas, there is no need for that much gain or directionality. just ordered one of these antennas and the crossboom is part of the kit. what could be better... well, they could come install them for me.
Hard to do with the larger antennas due to weight load on a rotor. I did think about it but with the 22 element 2 meter and 44element UHF was just to much weight hanging on the rotor. Not to mention any wind load. We here is Missouri do get very strong winds at times.
John, W0JAB
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Jeff,
I had precisely the same arrangement with no problems for 20+ years. When something did slip, I reset it, and tightened the bolts another 5 inch-lbs. Eventually nothing slipped.
It did come down one night, but due to a gust of hurricane force winds and an unseen rusted bracket which brought down the entire tower in about 5 seconds.
73s,
Alan WA4SCA
<-----Original Message----- <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] <Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 4:12 PM <To: [email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System < < I would not worry about wind loading, or weight with the yagi's John. When <you have a need to put a 1+ meter dish on your cross boom, then you will <worry about wind load. My last property in SNJ overlooking a 200 acre field <near the ocean had some very windy conditions and it would catch the dish <and move me off azimuth on several occasions. I thought it better to have a <little give in the system rather than thru bolt everything. Much easier on <the rotor system at 50+ MPH winds. < I had my large KLM's plus a 55 L 1.2gig loop yagi, along with the 1 meter <dish for almost 15 years with no issues... < <73 Jeff kb2m < <-----Original Message----- <From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Becker <Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 11:24 AM <To: [email protected] <Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System < < < <On 3/9/2015 9:25 AM, Bruce wrote: <> i have had the m2 11x2 2m circular and 15x2 70cm circular big antennas <> since 1993 and they have been great. however, this new antenna is even <> better as they are mounted by the end instead of the center of the <> boom. that means there should be almost zero clearance needed between <> the bottom of your rotor and the ground or a roof. although not <> ao-10/13 or ao-40 class antennas, there is no need for that much gain <> or directionality. just ordered one of these antennas and the <> crossboom is part of the kit. what could be better... well, they could <> come install them for me. < <Hard to do with the larger antennas due to weight load on a rotor. <I did think about it but with the 22 element 2 meter and 44element UHF was <just to much weight hanging on the rotor. Not to mention any wind load. <We here is Missouri do get very strong winds at times. < <John, W0JAB < < <_______________________________________________ <Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all <interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions <expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official <views of AMSAT-NA. <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! <Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb < <_______________________________________________ <Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available <to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed <are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. <Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! <Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I'm also buying a set for my new Florida QTH. I'm also looking for a used Yaesu 5500, preamps , etc. I'm totally happy I found a home with no antenna restrictions...
73 Jeff kb2m
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bruce Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 10:26 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
i have had the m2 11x2 2m circular and 15x2 70cm circular big antennas since 1993 and they have been great. however, this new antenna is even better as they are mounted by the end instead of the center of the boom. that means there should be almost zero clearance needed between the bottom of your rotor and the ground or a roof. although not ao-10/13 or ao-40 class antennas, there is no need for that much gain or directionality. just ordered one of these antennas and the crossboom is part of the kit. what could be better... well, they could come install them for me.
73...bruce
On 3/8/2015 8:20 PM, Mike wrote:
I'd buy one from the store just to try it.
73, KC6NHJ
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Andrew Glasbrenner Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 4:14 PM To: 'Clint Bradford'; 'Paul Stoetzer' Cc: [email protected]; 'AMSAT BB' Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
I agree Clint, and there is obviously room for both systems in our store.
When can I expect you to have the first batch ready to drop ship to the purchasers?
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Clint Bradford Sent: Sunday, March 08, 2015 7:02 PM To: Paul Stoetzer Cc: [email protected] Bradford; AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] New M2 LEO Antenna System
... You contributed to this thread because you wanted to make sure that people don't
think you need a $500 antenna system to work LEOs - and that is true, but on the same token, a $15 tape measure antenna will produce disappointing results in most cases if someone is trying to make QSOs on
SO-50.
PRECISELY.
I believe that - properly marketed - AMSAT-NA could make more profit selling 500 tape measure beam kits this year at $25 retail to schools, individuals, and clubs - than the profit they will realize selling a handful of $500 antenna systems.
ESPECIALLY with the FOX projects coming up. What better way to get MORE PEOPLE INVOLVED in the satellites than to offer them an affordable and educational DIY antenna building project for their new
satellites?
Clint Bradford
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Clint,
How presumptuous of you to think I am "missing the point". If you operated more often, you'd hear what many of us regularly experience from those that have issues hearing SO-50's weak (250mW) downlink. Many of those that have difficulties hearing SO-50 are already using Arrows, Elks, or various homebrew equivalents. I know this from my e-mail exchanges with many of these satellite operators, ready to help them improve their operating situations. Other regular operators also do the same thing, and all of us aren't looking for the public praise and adulation in helping others. By the way, I thought your name was "Clint", not "Allen".
Allen N5AFV is a long-time satellite operator with lots of experience working satellites in many different locations with different combinations of radios and antennas over the years. What Allen - and many of us who have been on for a while - can do doesn't automatically translate to something that works for everyone. My question about the number of SO-50 QSOs logged with the HT/whip combination is not a slam against Allen, but a simple question to get some context for that number.
As for the ISS, it may be easy to *hear* the ISS downlinks with a whip, but I wonder how many are actually *working* it - using the packet digipeater, or trying to talk to a crewmember - with a telescoping whip or long duckie. Again, context. We may be able to work the Fox-1 satellites with those other antennas, given their 2m downlinks that should be much easier to hear than what we have currently with SO-50. Time will tell. If the AFC on the Fox-1 uplink receiver works as advertised, coupled with the strong 2m downlinks, those satellites should be very nice for the FM crowds. And I will probably try some of those passes with the telescoping whips or long duckies, so I have first-hand knowledge to share with others about how well they work (or don't work) with the Fox-1 satellites.
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Clint Bradford [email protected] wrote:
You are missing the point - ESPECIALLY with the ISS and the upcoming AMSAT-NA FOX-1A project with its 2M downlink, providing up to 400mW TX power, and approximately 6db stronger receive signal than having a 440 downlink.
SO ... if one's more "simple" antenna is doing well now with SO-50 and the ISS, just imagine how exciting an educational project FOX-1A is going to be!
Not to steal the thread, Patrick, but I've digipeated through the ISS numerous times using my TH-D7, and now my TH-D72, with a Diamond SRH77CA.
Haven't done it in a while because it got "boring", but it can be easily done here on the Left Coast if you pick the pass so some of it is over the Pacific.
It's also the only way I work (when I do) the FM satellites, as with half the footprint over the ocean, the uplink contention isn't as frustrating.
73, Jim KQ6EA
On 03/08/2015 10:56 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Clint,
How presumptuous of you to think I am "missing the point". If you operated more often, you'd hear what many of us regularly experience from those that have issues hearing SO-50's weak (250mW) downlink. Many of those that have difficulties hearing SO-50 are already using Arrows, Elks, or various homebrew equivalents. I know this from my e-mail exchanges with many of these satellite operators, ready to help them improve their operating situations. Other regular operators also do the same thing, and all of us aren't looking for the public praise and adulation in helping others. By the way, I thought your name was "Clint", not "Allen".
Allen N5AFV is a long-time satellite operator with lots of experience working satellites in many different locations with different combinations of radios and antennas over the years. What Allen - and many of us who have been on for a while - can do doesn't automatically translate to something that works for everyone. My question about the number of SO-50 QSOs logged with the HT/whip combination is not a slam against Allen, but a simple question to get some context for that number.
As for the ISS, it may be easy to *hear* the ISS downlinks with a whip, but I wonder how many are actually *working* it - using the packet digipeater, or trying to talk to a crewmember - with a telescoping whip or long duckie. Again, context. We may be able to work the Fox-1 satellites with those other antennas, given their 2m downlinks that should be much easier to hear than what we have currently with SO-50. Time will tell. If the AFC on the Fox-1 uplink receiver works as advertised, coupled with the strong 2m downlinks, those satellites should be very nice for the FM crowds. And I will probably try some of those passes with the telescoping whips or long duckies, so I have first-hand knowledge to share with others about how well they work (or don't work) with the Fox-1 satellites.
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 9:44 PM, Clint Bradford [email protected] wrote:
You are missing the point - ESPECIALLY with the ISS and the upcoming AMSAT-NA FOX-1A project with its 2M downlink, providing up to 400mW TX power, and approximately 6db stronger receive signal than having a 440 downlink.
SO ... if one's more "simple" antenna is doing well now with SO-50 and the ISS, just imagine how exciting an educational project FOX-1A is going to be!
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Jim!
Don't worry about stealing the thread.
You're making my point, mentioning not only the radio/antenna setup but the circumstances you have been able to work the ISS digipeater and FM satellites that way. I saw the same thing last month when I worked satellites, and especially the ISS, from Los Angeles. I'll probably see it again next month, for another presentation out there. It is nice to work satellites (and the ISS) from different locations, to get the experience of how the passes are away from home.
Are you near Long Beach?
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 1:35 AM, Jim Jerzycke [email protected] wrote:
Not to steal the thread, Patrick, but I've digipeated through the ISS numerous times using my TH-D7, and now my TH-D72, with a Diamond SRH77CA.
Haven't done it in a while because it got "boring", but it can be easily done here on the Left Coast if you pick the pass so some of it is over the Pacific.
It's also the only way I work (when I do) the FM satellites, as with half the footprint over the ocean, the uplink contention isn't as frustrating.
participants (10)
-
Alan -
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Bruce -
Clint Bradford -
Jim Jerzycke -
John Becker -
kb2m＠arrl.net -
Mike -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Paul Stoetzer