2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I hope the error was the printing company's and that they are paying for the printing and mailing the second time. That would be fair.
73, Frank K6FW On 7/17/18 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thank you Mike!
There is nothing wrong with online voting. Done it for years with great success. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:43 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
organization is
having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper
ballots
to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save
the
organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent
mishaps
such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like
last
year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us
wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the
AMSAT-NA
office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
While thinking about changes, how about considering ranked choice voting?
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:48 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Mike!
There is nothing wrong with online voting. Done it for years with great success. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:43 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
organization is
having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper
ballots
to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save
the
organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent
mishaps
such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like
last
year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us
wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the
AMSAT-NA
office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
These all are good points and worth further discussion and debate. That said, paper ballots are how it’s currently done. Reissuing the ballots, to me, is the only logical way to protect the integrity of the election, for now. May I suggest that we stay involved and help make the organization grow.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:52 PM, E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote:
While thinking about changes, how about considering ranked choice voting?
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:48 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Mike!
There is nothing wrong with online voting. Done it for years with great success. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:43 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
organization is
having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper
ballots
to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save
the
organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent
mishaps
such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like
last
year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us
wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the
AMSAT-NA
office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Absolutely, nobody ever questioned the short term solution. Online voting seems like the obvious choice in the future though.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 22:06, E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote:
These all are good points and worth further discussion and debate. That said, paper ballots are how it’s currently done. Reissuing the ballots, to me, is the only logical way to protect the integrity of the election, for now. May I suggest that we stay involved and help make the organization grow.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:52 PM, E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote:
While thinking about changes, how about considering ranked choice voting?
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:48 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Mike!
There is nothing wrong with online voting. Done it for years with great success. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:43 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
organization is
having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper
ballots
to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save
the
organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent
mishaps
such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like
last
year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us
wrote:
> > Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA > members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have > been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the
AMSAT-NA
> office will not be counted. > > New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on > yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. > > Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: > Tom Clark, K3IO > Mark Hammond, N8MH > Scott Harvey, KA7FVV > Bruce Paige, KK5DO > Peter Portanova, W2JV > > The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the > highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate > members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. > > 73, > Clayton > W5PFG > AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
> expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
> AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I would encourage members to read the Bylaws on the AMSAT website, regarding voting.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 7/17/2018 21:06, E.Mike McCardel wrote:
These all are good points and worth further discussion and debate. That said, paper ballots are how it’s currently done. Reissuing the ballots, to me, is the only logical way to protect the integrity of the election, for now. May I suggest that we stay involved and help make the organization grow.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:52 PM, E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote:
While thinking about changes, how about considering ranked choice voting?
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:48 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Mike!
There is nothing wrong with online voting. Done it for years with great success. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:43 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
organization is
having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper
ballots
to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save
the
organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent
mishaps
such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like
last
year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us
wrote:
> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA > members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have > been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the
AMSAT-NA
> office will not be counted. > > New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on > yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. > > Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: > Tom Clark, K3IO > Mark Hammond, N8MH > Scott Harvey, KA7FVV > Bruce Paige, KK5DO > Peter Portanova, W2JV > > The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the > highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate > members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. > > 73, > Clayton > W5PFG > AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
> expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
> AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I would also encourage the AMSAT-NA BOD to consider amending the bylaws, regarding voting.
73, Tucker W4FS
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:02 AM, Jerry Buxton n0jy@amsat.org wrote:
I would encourage members to read the Bylaws on the AMSAT website, regarding voting.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 7/17/2018 21:06, E.Mike McCardel wrote:
These all are good points and worth further discussion and debate. That
said, paper ballots are how it’s currently done. Reissuing the ballots, to me, is the only logical way to protect the integrity of the election, for now. May I suggest that we stay involved and help make the organization grow.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:52 PM, E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com
wrote:
While thinking about changes, how about considering ranked choice
voting?
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:48 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com
wrote:
Thank you Mike!
There is nothing wrong with online voting. Done it for years with great success. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:43 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com
wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more,
secure
as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to
with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some
options to a
voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient,
you
can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like
LOTW for
QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking”
the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack
the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior
to
printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman <
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com>
wrote:
> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
organization is
> having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper
ballots
> to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would
save
the
> organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent
mishaps
> such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots
like
last
> year. > > 73, > Gabe > AL6D/VE6NJH > >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG <
tasmac@w5pfg.us>
wrote:
>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to
AMSAT-NA
>> members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018
have
>> been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the
AMSAT-NA
>> office will not be counted. >> >> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >> >> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >> Tom Clark, K3IO >> Mark Hammond, N8MH >> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >> Peter Portanova, W2JV >> >> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving
the
>> highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate >> members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. >> >> 73, >> Clayton >> W5PFG >> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
>> expressed >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views
of
>> AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/
listinfo/amsat-bb
>> > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views
of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/
listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official
views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/
listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 7/17/2018 23:17, Tucker McGuire wrote:
I would also encourage the AMSAT-NA BOD to consider amending the bylaws, regarding voting.
The subject was brought up on the Tactical Planning Teleconference Tuesday night. The Board of Directors is aware of the issue of course, and I'm sure there will be further consideration. I'm sure that will be a lively discussion. I just wanted to point out where the process is laid out and what has to be done to change it, for the purpose of the discussion here.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
The cost for electronic voting would still involve mailing out a ballot. That cannot be changed. A corporation must abide by certain rules. We could hire a company to do electronic ballots which would be an additional charge. There is no one time setup and then less expensive year after year. The companies that do this charge every year. I do not think we have the resources to do mail and electronic ballots at this time. This has been discussed many times by the board.
73...bruce
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 11:39 AM, Jerry Buxton n0jy@amsat.org wrote:
On 7/17/2018 23:17, Tucker McGuire wrote:
I would also encourage the AMSAT-NA BOD to consider amending the bylaws, regarding voting.
The subject was brought up on the Tactical Planning Teleconference Tuesday night. The Board of Directors is aware of the issue of course, and I'm sure there will be further consideration. I'm sure that will be a lively discussion. I just wanted to point out where the process is laid out and what has to be done to change it, for the purpose of the discussion here.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Bylaws can be changed to allow other forms of voting besides mail in ballots. All is takes is 2/3 of the Directors to vote to amend the bylaws to allow electronic ballots. This topic should be on the agenda for the annual meeting in November 2018.
Frank Westphal, K6FW
On 7/17/18 9:02 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote:
I would encourage members to read the Bylaws on the AMSAT website, regarding voting.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 7/17/2018 21:06, E.Mike McCardel wrote:
These all are good points and worth further discussion and debate. That said, paper ballots are how it’s currently done. Reissuing the ballots, to me, is the only logical way to protect the integrity of the election, for now. May I suggest that we stay involved and help make the organization grow.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:52 PM, E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote:
While thinking about changes, how about considering ranked choice voting?
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:48 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Mike!
There is nothing wrong with online voting. Done it for years with great success. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:43 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
organization is
> having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper
ballots
> to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save
the
> organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent
mishaps
> such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like
last
> year. > > 73, > Gabe > AL6D/VE6NJH > >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us
wrote:
>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA >> members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have >> been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the
AMSAT-NA
>> office will not be counted. >> >> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >> >> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >> Tom Clark, K3IO >> Mark Hammond, N8MH >> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >> Peter Portanova, W2JV >> >> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the >> highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate >> members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. >> >> 73, >> Clayton >> W5PFG >> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
>> expressed >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
>> AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Suggest writing your ideas with specific text to use for amending to the bylaws.
Getting the words right helps you polish your ideas. Ok, so the devil is in the details, but addressing devilish details early in the process helps your ideas to be well received and considered.
I hope this helps.
73, art..... W4ART Arlington VA
On Jul 18, 2018, at 12:24 AM, Frank k6fw1@verizon.net wrote:
Bylaws can be changed to allow other forms of voting besides mail in ballots. All is takes is 2/3 of the Directors to vote to amend the bylaws to allow electronic ballots. This topic should be on the agenda for the annual meeting in November 2018.
Frank Westphal, K6FW
On 7/17/18 9:02 PM, Jerry Buxton wrote: I would encourage members to read the Bylaws on the AMSAT website, regarding voting.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 7/17/2018 21:06, E.Mike McCardel wrote: These all are good points and worth further discussion and debate. That said, paper ballots are how it’s currently done. Reissuing the ballots, to me, is the only logical way to protect the integrity of the election, for now. May I suggest that we stay involved and help make the organization grow.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:52 PM, E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote:
While thinking about changes, how about considering ranked choice voting?
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 17, 2018, at 9:48 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Thank you Mike!
There is nothing wrong with online voting. Done it for years with great success. The benefits far outweigh any risks.
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 8:43 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort < eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote: > Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer. > Eric > Af6ep > > Sent using SMTP. > >> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote: >> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is >> having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots >> to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the >> organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps >> such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last >> year. >> >> 73, >> Gabe >> AL6D/VE6NJH >> >>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote: >>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA >>> members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have >>> been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA >>> office will not be counted. >>> >>> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >>> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >>> >>> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >>> Tom Clark, K3IO >>> Mark Hammond, N8MH >>> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >>> Peter Portanova, W2JV >>> >>> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the >>> highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate >>> members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. >>> >>> 73, >>> Clayton >>> W5PFG >>> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >>> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions >>> expressed >>> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of >>> AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed >> are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available > to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed > are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Mike,
I disagree. I think mailing anonymous postcards on stock paper I can buy at Office Depot is superior in every way. First of all, 128-bit encryption is very succeptible to hacking by people trying to sabotage our small non-profit's election. Second, I think most of our members enjoy getting out, going to the post office, buying a stamp, and praying that USPS manages to get it there on time and in one piece. Not only that, but when a member accidentally does not receive a ballot, they simply cannot vote, which weeds out the non-dedicated members. The obvious choice for an organization looking to move forward and into the future is paper, forever.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 5:42 PM Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org> wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented
organization is
having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper
ballots
to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save
the
organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent
mishaps
such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like
last
year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us
wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the
AMSAT-NA
office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of
AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views
of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing them *correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org
wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do
not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front cost verses “free” power down the road. If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even for lower cost in the future? Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both software and social. I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit more complicated and costly than one might think.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org wrote:
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing them *correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org
wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do
not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Does AMSAT maintain a printing press and envelope factory to produce the current mailings? I think the solution is called "contracting" and I am aware that there are companies that offer such services at a reasonable cost.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 4:53 AM E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote:
What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front cost verses “free” power down the road. If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even for lower cost in the future? Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both software and social. I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit more complicated and costly than one might think.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org wrote:
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing them
*correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only
casts
one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the
paper ballot
is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one
and
only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then
separated
from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In
the
digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire
papers
and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact
thing. Do
the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com
wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more,
secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options
to a
voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient,
you can
pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <
eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org>
wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack
the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
> > Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to > AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July > 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots > received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. > > New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on > yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. > > Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: > Tom Clark, K3IO > Mark Hammond, N8MH > Scott Harvey, KA7FVV > Bruce Paige, KK5DO > Peter Portanova, W2JV > > The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving > the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two > alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
votes received.
> > 73, > Clayton > W5PFG > AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum > available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring > membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and > do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: > http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do
not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect
the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views
of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Perhaps there is a happy medium here. How about emailing the ballot as a pdf to each member. If necessary each pdf could be encoded slightly different (possibly serialized) for each member. It is then up to the member to print and mail the return ballot. If one wanted to squabble over postage that can be printed as well. The key to this is that the info that identifies the unique ballot is not linked in any way to the member it was sent to but the member can verify from the serial number that is known only to them that the ballot was received and counted.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
Does AMSAT maintain a printing press and envelope factory to produce the current mailings? I think the solution is called "contracting" and I am aware that there are companies that offer such services at a reasonable cost.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 4:53 AM E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote: What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front cost verses “free” power down the road. If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even for lower cost in the future? Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both software and social. I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit more complicated and costly than one might think.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org wrote:
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing them *correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org
wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
> > How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented > organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two > sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that > electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting > more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent > some members from not receiving ballots like last year. > > 73, > Gabe > AL6D/VE6NJH > >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
>> >> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to >> AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July >> 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots >> received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. >> >> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >> >> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >> Tom Clark, K3IO >> Mark Hammond, N8MH >> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >> Peter Portanova, W2JV >> >> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving >> the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two >> alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
votes received.
>> >> 73, >> Clayton >> W5PFG >> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and >> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> Subscription settings: >> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum > available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring > membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do
not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: > http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Remember that we have life members dating to the early 1970s. We don't have email addresses for all of our members in order to do something like that.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote:
Perhaps there is a happy medium here. How about emailing the ballot as a pdf to each member. If necessary each pdf could be encoded slightly different (possibly serialized) for each member. It is then up to the member to print and mail the return ballot. If one wanted to squabble over postage that can be printed as well. The key to this is that the info that identifies the unique ballot is not linked in any way to the member it was sent to but the member can verify from the serial number that is known only to them that the ballot was received and counted.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
Does AMSAT maintain a printing press and envelope factory to produce the current mailings? I think the solution is called "contracting" and I am aware that there are companies that offer such services at a reasonable cost.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 4:53 AM E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote: What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front cost verses “free” power down the road. If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even for lower cost in the future? Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both software and social. I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit more complicated and costly than one might think.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org wrote:
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing them *correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org
wrote:
> > Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
> > Eric > Af6ep > > Sent using SMTP. > >> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented >> organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two >> sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that >> electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting >> more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent >> some members from not receiving ballots like last year. >> >> 73, >> Gabe >> AL6D/VE6NJH >> >>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
>>> >>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to >>> AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July >>> 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots >>> received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. >>> >>> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >>> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >>> >>> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >>> Tom Clark, K3IO >>> Mark Hammond, N8MH >>> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >>> Peter Portanova, W2JV >>> >>> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving >>> the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two >>> alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
votes received.
>>> >>> 73, >>> Clayton >>> W5PFG >>> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and >>> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>>> Subscription settings: >>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do
not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
>> Subscription settings: >> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. > Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Good point. But perhaps to significantly reduce the costs of mailing an opt in to receiving the ballot via email could be instituted. While the opt in should probably be done by paper such that there is a verifiable record of such it could easily be done via a printable form the same as voting and the form mailed with renewal or separately at any time.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 18, 2018, at 9:54 AM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
Remember that we have life members dating to the early 1970s. We don't have email addresses for all of our members in order to do something like that.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote:
Perhaps there is a happy medium here. How about emailing the ballot as a pdf to each member. If necessary each pdf could be encoded slightly different (possibly serialized) for each member. It is then up to the member to print and mail the return ballot. If one wanted to squabble over postage that can be printed as well. The key to this is that the info that identifies the unique ballot is not linked in any way to the member it was sent to but the member can verify from the serial number that is known only to them that the ballot was received and counted.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
Does AMSAT maintain a printing press and envelope factory to produce the current mailings? I think the solution is called "contracting" and I am aware that there are companies that offer such services at a reasonable cost.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 4:53 AM E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com wrote: What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front cost verses “free” power down the road. If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even for lower cost in the future? Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both software and social. I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit more complicated and costly than one might think.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org wrote:
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing them *correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote: > > Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post. > > Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism. > > 73, > Mike Diehl > W8LID > >> On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote: >> >> Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer. >> >> Eric >> Af6ep >> >> Sent using SMTP. >> >>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented >>> organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two >>> sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that >>> electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting >>> more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent >>> some members from not receiving ballots like last year. >>> >>> 73, >>> Gabe >>> AL6D/VE6NJH >>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote: >>>> >>>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to >>>> AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July >>>> 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots >>>> received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. >>>> >>>> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >>>> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >>>> >>>> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >>>> Tom Clark, K3IO >>>> Mark Hammond, N8MH >>>> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >>>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >>>> Peter Portanova, W2JV >>>> >>>> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving >>>> the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two >>>> alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> Clayton >>>> W5PFG >>>> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and >>>> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>>> Subscription settings: >>>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: >>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. >> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
True, and like it or not, "not everybody has email".
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 7/18/2018 11:54, Paul Stoetzer wrote:
Remember that we have life members dating to the early 1970s. We don't have email addresses for all of our members in order to do something like that.
The fact that not everyone has E-Mail or access to a computer necessitates having a mail-in alternative to on-line voting. It would not be that hard to amend the by-laws to allow either method of voting.
Having a serial number on the mailing label of the newsletter allows either method to be used without the expense of mailing ballots and the manpower to tabulate the paper ballots. Yes, there will still be a relatively few paper type ballots sent in. However, the small number of those ballots would be easily handled by a single person.
All that would be involved is to come up with a computer program that recognizes the serial number and that allows the serial number to be used only 1-time. I am sure that there are organization members who can write such a program virtually blindfolded and at no cost to AMSAT.
I have been a member of AMSAT since the 2nd month of the establishment of the organization and definitely am in favor of things that can reduce the administrative costs of the organization. Glen, K9STH
AMSAT 239 / LM063
Website: http://k9sth.net
From: Jerry Buxton n0jy@amsat.org To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
True, and like it or not, "not everybody has email".
Paul hits on a real issue-making sure that folks have a chance to vote, regardless of media type.
As mentioned already in this thread, and from my perspective as a Board member now up for election renewal--rest assured that a well researched written proposal for something like moving to electronic voting would be given a good fair and full review by the Board and Officers. There are many points being brought up in this thread right now--but suggesting a change that requires a change to the by-laws of an organization should obviously be well researched and reviewed. It'll take a good amount of time and thought, certainly worth doing for something so important to an organization.
73,
Mark N8MH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
Remember that we have life members dating to the early 1970s. We don't have email addresses for all of our members in order to do something like that.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:52 PM, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote:
Perhaps there is a happy medium here. How about emailing the ballot as a
pdf to each member. If necessary each pdf could be encoded slightly different (possibly serialized) for each member. It is then up to the member to print and mail the return ballot. If one wanted to squabble over postage that can be printed as well. The key to this is that the info that identifies the unique ballot is not linked in any way to the member it was sent to but the member can verify from the serial number that is known only to them that the ballot was received and counted.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 18, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com
wrote:
Does AMSAT maintain a printing press and envelope factory to produce
the current mailings? I think the solution is called "contracting" and I am aware that there are companies that offer such services at a reasonable cost.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 4:53 AM E.Mike McCardel mccardelm@gmail.com
wrote:
What would the upfront cost of setting up electronic voting? It seems
to me that it would be analogous to Solar electricity. Higher end, up front cost verses “free” power down the road.
If you are advocating the change are you willing to invest your own
time energy and perhaps $$$ to reduce the cost to AMSAT? After all can a cash strapped organization afford $10k or higher solution right now, even for lower cost in the future?
Regardless this will not be an overnight solution. Like building a
satellite it will require planning and deadlines and engineering, both software and social.
I personally like the idea on online voting. I also like the idea of
electronic delivery of the Journal, but we have found even that is a bit more complicated and costly than one might think.
73 EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 1:11 AM, Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org
wrote:
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing
them *correctly* is not.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Eric Fort Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:55 PM To: Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors
Ballots
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind
the
keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter
only casts
one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is
the paper ballot
is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature
and
registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that
one and
only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then
separated
from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the
voter. In the
digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and
verifiablity
simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire
papers
and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact
thing. Do
the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com
wrote:
> > Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more,
secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to
with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some
options to a
voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more
convenient, you can
pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW
for
QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post. > > Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people
“hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism. > > 73, > Mike Diehl > W8LID > >> On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort <eric.fort.listmail@
fortconsulting.org>
wrote: >> >> Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to
“hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught
prior to
printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer. >> >> Eric >> Af6ep >> >> Sent using SMTP. >> >>> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented >>> organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail
two
>>> sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that >>> electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting >>> more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and
prevent
>>> some members from not receiving ballots like last year. >>> >>> 73, >>> Gabe >>> AL6D/VE6NJH >>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote: >>>> >>>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to >>>> AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on
July
>>>> 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots >>>> received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. >>>> >>>> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >>>> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >>>> >>>> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >>>> Tom Clark, K3IO >>>> Mark Hammond, N8MH >>>> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >>>> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >>>> Peter Portanova, W2JV >>>> >>>> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates
receiving
>>>> the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two >>>> alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received. >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> Clayton >>>> W5PFG >>>> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author,
and
>>>> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite
program! >>>> Subscription settings: >>>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >>> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >>> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author,
and do
not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >>> Subscription settings: >>> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available >> to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. >> Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not
reflect the
official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! >> Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/
listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
available
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I agree that electronic voting is, by far, the cheapest way of doing things. However, there are problems with how to insure that only 1-vote is cast and by the actual member.
Notification of an upcoming election can be made through the newsletter. But, to get everyone's attention, the announcement needs to be on the front cover and taking up at least half of that cover. Then, to insure that only 1 ballot can be cast, there needs to be some code number attached. However, if someone really wanted to find out how an individual voted, they might be able to connect the code number with that person.
To prevent this, there would have to be a random generation of the code number, but that would prevent duplication, which would then be printed on the address label. The member would then enter the code number when voting.
Also, for those members who do not have computer access (yes, there are a few), those members should be provided with a means to vote by mail such as sending in a letter with only the code number as identification.
Glen, K9STH AMSAT-239 / LM-0463 Website: http://k9sth.net
From: Devin L. Ganger devin@thecabal.org To: Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org; Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com Cc: Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us; AMSAT Mailing List amsat-bb@amsat.org; Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:44 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
Concur with AF6EP. Doing electronic ballots is inexpensive. Doing them *correctly* is not.
If electronic ballots are good enough for the major investment firms board of directors elections, I can't imagine they would not be good enough for AMSAT.
Frank K6FW On 7/17/18 9:55 PM, Eric Fort wrote:
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I, for one, want to spend AMSAT $$$ on satellites and ground terminals, not voting systems.
Maybe I'm crazy.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Frank Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:40 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
If electronic ballots are good enough for the major investment firms board of directors elections, I can't imagine they would not be good enough for AMSAT.
Frank K6FW On 7/17/18 9:55 PM, Eric Fort wrote:
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the
keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org
wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite program!
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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I do too. I received my ballot today with 40 cents postage on the envelope. AMSAT has around 3000 members last count I remember reading. That means it cost $1200 in postage to mail out the ballots the first time. Now the second mailing will cost another $1200 in postage. Now add the cost of envelopes, paper and printing. How many members have to renew at $48 to pay for the election. For a small organization fighting to survive financially this is not an insignificant amount of money.
73, Frank K6FW
On 7/17/18 10:46 PM, Devin L. Ganger wrote:
I, for one, want to spend AMSAT $$$ on satellites and ground terminals, not voting systems.
Maybe I'm crazy.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Frank Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:40 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
If electronic ballots are good enough for the major investment firms board of directors elections, I can't imagine they would not be good enough for AMSAT.
Frank K6FW On 7/17/18 9:55 PM, Eric Fort wrote:
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the
keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org
wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year.
73, Gabe AL6D/VE6NJH
> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to > AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July > 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots > received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. > > New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on > yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. > > Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: > Tom Clark, K3IO > Mark Hammond, N8MH > Scott Harvey, KA7FVV > Bruce Paige, KK5DO > Peter Portanova, W2JV > > The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving > the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two > alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
votes received.
> 73, > Clayton > W5PFG > AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum > available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring > membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and > do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite program!
> Subscription settings: > http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and
do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Identifying a problem is valuable. Proposing a specific and workable solution is even more valuable!!
Go for it!! Be POSITIVE!
73…..
On 18-Jul-2018, at 01:57 AM, Frank k6fw1@verizon.net wrote:
I do too. I received my ballot today with 40 cents postage on the envelope. AMSAT has around 3000 members last count I remember reading. That means it cost $1200 in postage to mail out the ballots the first time. Now the second mailing will cost another $1200 in postage. Now add the cost of envelopes, paper and printing. How many members have to renew at $48 to pay for the election. For a small organization fighting to survive financially this is not an insignificant amount of money.
73, Frank K6FW
On 7/17/18 10:46 PM, Devin L. Ganger wrote:
I, for one, want to spend AMSAT $$$ on satellites and ground terminals, not voting systems.
Maybe I'm crazy.
-- Devin L. Ganger (WA7DLG) email: devin@thecabal.org web: Devin on Earth cell: +1 425.239.2575
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Frank Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:40 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
If electronic ballots are good enough for the major investment firms board of directors elections, I can't imagine they would not be good enough for AMSAT.
Frank K6FW On 7/17/18 9:55 PM, Eric Fort wrote:
The basic problem with electronic voting is proving who is behind the
keyboard and tracing the data with integrity such that each voter only casts one ballot. With paper ballots this is possible. What is done is the paper ballot is placed in an envelope that is signed by the voter. The signature and registration info can then be compared on receipt, verifying that one and only one ballot was cast by that specific voter. The ballot is then separated from the envelope to be counted assuring the anonymity of the voter. In the digital realm one can not have anonymity, traceability, and verifiablity simultaneously. These are mathematically proven therems and entire papers and PhD thesis’s have been written on this topic proving this exact thing. Do the research. Paper verified ballots really are the only way.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
On Jul 17, 2018, at 6:42 PM, Mike Diehl diehl.mike.a@gmail.com wrote:
Disagree. There are online services that are just as, if not more, secure as
your medical information or where you spend your money. Going to print with anything takes a lot more work than simply providing some options to a voting service. Then there’s postage. Online is also more convenient, you can pretty much do it anytime, anywhere you want. Think of it like LOTW for QSLs, saves a ton in paper, postage and trips to the post.
Last but not least is I don’t see a real threat of people “hacking” the
elections for jobs that don’t pay and are full of criticism.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Jul 17, 2018, at 19:44, Eric Fort eric.fort.listmail@fortconsulting.org
wrote:
Let’s not get into electronic voting. Too much opportunity to “hack the
vote”. It’s unfortunate that an error was made and not caught prior to printing and mailing but electronic voting is not the answer.
Eric Af6ep
Sent using SMTP.
> On Jul 17, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Gabriel Zeifman
gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
> How unfortunate that our cash strapped, technology oriented > organization is having to waste so much money to print and mail two > sets of paper ballots to each and every member. Seems to me that > electronic voting would save the organization money, make voting > more secure and efficient, prevent mishaps such as this, and > prevent some members from not receiving ballots like last year. > > 73, > Gabe > AL6D/VE6NJH > >> On Tue, Jul 17, 2018, 2:33 PM Clayton Coleman W5PFG
tasmac@w5pfg.us wrote:
>> Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to >> AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July >> 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots >> received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted. >> >> New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on >> yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members. >> >> Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: >> Tom Clark, K3IO >> Mark Hammond, N8MH >> Scott Harvey, KA7FVV >> Bruce Paige, KK5DO >> Peter Portanova, W2JV >> >> The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving >> the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two >> alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of
votes received.
>> 73, >> Clayton >> W5PFG >> AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum >> available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring >> membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and >> do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur
satellite program!
>> Subscription settings: >> http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> > _______________________________________________ > Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum > available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring > membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and
do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
> Subscription settings: > http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do
not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum
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Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
To thrive in life, you need three bones: a wish bone, a back bone, and a funny bone. - Reba McEntire
Hmmm. Why would a completely separate mailing, at additional production and mailing cost, be necessary to correct mis-printed ballots?
Conventionally If there are known errors (errata) of a publication, often the authors issue a notice and direct readers to download/print out the notice for their own use. Later those edits/changes are inserted in the next edition.
As long as the notice is properly authorized, widely distributed (web, e-mail should be fine - after all that is how AMSAT membership is managed), then anyone who wants to vote, only needs to follow the errata instructions (e.g., "print out the new ballot form", "modify line 1: omit 'xxx' and insert 'yyy') on the ballot they have received, and then they can go ahead and walk to the post office, put on a stamp and post it. That would be the equivalent of writing in candidates if a voting system allows it, and their names are not on the official ballot for some reason votes.
I vote in IEEE and AIAA groups, so what would be the advantage (other than following SOP another expensive paper ballot) - that doesn't preclude the risk of making another mistake in preparing the ballot. What would happen if there is another mistake? Perhaps a THIRD ballot then?
Seriously, a special resolution by AMSAT BOD at any meeting could solve this issue. Disclaimer: I haven't read the by-laws but they can't possibly be detailed enough to instruct a board how to handle bungled ballot cards (I hope) in such a rigid manner.
Apologies if I am wrong on the mechanism of votes.
73 de N3RDX
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Clayton Coleman W5PFG Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:33 PM To: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged and is intended for the exclusive use of the above named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are expressly prohibited from copying, distributing, disseminating, or in any other way using any information contained within this communication. If you have received this communication in error please contact the sender by telephone or by response via mail. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses.
I believe that presenting an online method of printing a new ballot could easily result in stuffing the ballot box. Under the circumstances a new ballot is really the only way to maintain any control. Too bad the inconvenience, too bad the cost. I applaud the Directors for taking prompt action.
EMike
EMike McCardel, AA8EM Rotating Editor AMSAT News Service Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 18, 2018, at 2:52 AM, Samudra Haque [TTLLC] sehaque@tekterrain.com wrote:
Hmmm. Why would a completely separate mailing, at additional production and mailing cost, be necessary to correct mis-printed ballots?
Conventionally If there are known errors (errata) of a publication, often the authors issue a notice and direct readers to download/print out the notice for their own use. Later those edits/changes are inserted in the next edition.
As long as the notice is properly authorized, widely distributed (web, e-mail should be fine - after all that is how AMSAT membership is managed), then anyone who wants to vote, only needs to follow the errata instructions (e.g., "print out the new ballot form", "modify line 1: omit 'xxx' and insert 'yyy') on the ballot they have received, and then they can go ahead and walk to the post office, put on a stamp and post it. That would be the equivalent of writing in candidates if a voting system allows it, and their names are not on the official ballot for some reason votes.
I vote in IEEE and AIAA groups, so what would be the advantage (other than following SOP another expensive paper ballot) - that doesn't preclude the risk of making another mistake in preparing the ballot. What would happen if there is another mistake? Perhaps a THIRD ballot then?
Seriously, a special resolution by AMSAT BOD at any meeting could solve this issue. Disclaimer: I haven't read the by-laws but they can't possibly be detailed enough to instruct a board how to handle bungled ballot cards (I hope) in such a rigid manner.
Apologies if I am wrong on the mechanism of votes.
73 de N3RDX
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Clayton Coleman W5PFG Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:33 PM To: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] 2018 Corrected AMSAT Board of Directors Ballots
Due to a printing error, the beige-colored ballots mailed to AMSAT-NA members for the 2018 Board of Directors election on July 15, 2018 have been declared void. Any of these voided ballots received at the AMSAT-NA office will not be counted.
New ballots, labeled “CORRECTED BALLOT 7/20/2018” and printed on yellow-colored cardstock will be mailed to all AMSAT-NA members.
Please vote for no more than three of the 2018 candidates: Tom Clark, K3IO Mark Hammond, N8MH Scott Harvey, KA7FVV Bruce Paige, KK5DO Peter Portanova, W2JV
The Directors positions will go to the three candidates receiving the highest number of votes. In addition, there will be two alternate members chosen, based on the next highest number of votes received.
73, Clayton W5PFG AMSAT-NA Corporate Secretary _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be privileged and is intended for the exclusive use of the above named addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are expressly prohibited from copying, distributing, disseminating, or in any other way using any information contained within this communication. If you have received this communication in error please contact the sender by telephone or by response via mail. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (17)
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Arthur Feller -
Arthur Feller, W4ART
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Bruce -
Clayton Coleman W5PFG -
Devin L. Ganger -
E.Mike McCardel -
Eric Fort -
Frank -
Gabriel Zeifman -
Glen Zook -
Jerry Buxton -
Mark L. Hammond -
Mike Diehl -
Paul Stoetzer -
Samudra Haque [TTLLC] -
Stefan Wagener -
Tucker McGuire