Re: Amateur Radio satellites for Beginners?
Carl, Sorry to hear those results. You should have much better RX than that. Many folks on the BB have similar setups. Perhaps, the general AMSAT community can give more advice. GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Saturday, April 17, 2021, 02:41:04 AM EDT, Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
Bob: Here are my observations:Using both the AMSAT predictions and that from MacDoppler I tried hearing SO-50 at 12:59 4/17 on a 13 minute pass. Both AMSAT and MacDoppler compared favorably. The D72 and GP-95 could hear only faintly. The 9700 and the M2 LEO Pack antenna barely copied but when I switched to my long-boom 70-cm yagii fed with 7/8” helix I I got about a S-6 signal and could see it on the scope. Duringthe pass I heard no stations calling or in QSO. Certainly polarizations were not helping but I was really disappointed. Path losses according to MacDoppler are high - in the area of -150 to -160. Thoughts? 73Carl WA0CQG
On Apr 16, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote: Carl, I'm surprised you're not hearing any of the SATs, especially withyour setup. Some of them are quite strong and folks have heardthem with handhelds and worked them from mobiles using verticalantennas while in motion. Since moving to a new QTH, I have no home station at the moment.But when I'm roving and using an Arrow, the SATs are easy to hearand track. I use either AmsatDroid or Look4Sat on my phone and theyboth do a great job. If I were you and I just wanted to check if I could hear a SAT, here'swhat I would do. Pick a common SAT known to be active and well-usedlike SO-50. Set your RX VFO to 436.800 MHz FM. Set your antennaelevation to about 20 degrees. Look up the timing of a pass viewablefrom your location. Set the azimuth of your antenna in the direction ofthe middle time of that pass. At that time, you should hear SO-50 loudand clear with several stations making QSOs. Since you say that your setup works fine for terrestrial QSOs, you willsurely hear SO-50 if you have the pass time correct for your location andyou have the azimuth set properly. If you want to verify that your MACsoftware is accurate, check the pass info against the AMSAT predictioncalculation for your QTH on: AMSAT - AMSAT Online Satellite Pass Predictions
| | | | AMSAT - AMSAT Online Satellite Pass Predictions AMSAT is a worldwide group of Amateur Radio Operators who share an active interest in building, launching and th... |
|
|
GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Friday, April 16, 2021, 03:03:38 AM EDT, Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
Bob - Thanks for your input. Right now I am using a TH-D72 handheld and GP-95 vertical and also the IC-9700 with the M2 LEO Pack. I hear nothing with either although terrestrial reception with both is fine. I am using MacDoppler software for tracking and have verified time and location. 73Carl WA0CQG
On Apr 15, 2021, at 9:08 PM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote: Carl,
The FM SATS are pretty easy and can be loads of fun. However, beingso easy, they get quite busy at times which brings about mayhem andchaos. It takes a while for new users to learn the proper operationalskills for using a single channel repeater available often nationwide. The Linear SATS are somewhat difficult to master at first, but most folkscatch on in a reasonable timeframe. They have a wide bandwidth whichmakes them available for quite a few QSOs to take place simultaneously.And, they can be actual QSOs as opposed to hello/goodbye types thatare the norm on the FM Birds. Your 9700 is an excellent radio for theLinear SATs, whereas an HT would have been sufficient for the FM ones. GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:57 AM Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
What handful of Amateur Radio satellites should a newcomer focus on? The Amsat Current Status table lists 15 with current reports but many of those are telemetry only. Is there a current “Amateur Satellite Frequency Guide? My April 2019 is pretty out of date. I need to know what satellites I should try to hear in an effort to validate my IC-9700 and M2 Leo Pack system. 73Carl WA0CQG -----------------------------------------------------------
You may have better luck with the sat tracker controlling your radio. Then in the future you get the g5500 you will be all set for a full tracking station.
Check out the website and Facebook page.
http://www.csntechnologies.net/
Mike
Kc2syf
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 17, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
Carl,
Sorry to hear those results. You should have much better RX than that.
Many folks on the BB have similar setups.
Perhaps, the general AMSAT community can give more advice.
GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Saturday, April 17, 2021, 02:41:04 AM EDT, Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
Bob:
Here are my observations: Using both the AMSAT predictions and that from MacDoppler I tried hearing SO-50 at 12:59 4/17 on a 13 minute pass. Both AMSAT and MacDoppler compared favorably. The D72 and GP-95 could hear only faintly. The 9700 and the M2 LEO Pack antenna barely copied but when I switched to my long-boom 70-cm yagii fed with 7/8” helix I I got about a S-6 signal and could see it on the scope. During the pass I heard no stations calling or in QSO. Certainly polarizations were not helping but I was really disappointed. Path losses according to MacDoppler are high - in the area of -150 to -160.
Thoughts?
73 Carl WA0CQG
On Apr 16, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
Carl,
I'm surprised you're not hearing any of the SATs, especially with your setup. Some of them are quite strong and folks have heard them with handhelds and worked them from mobiles using vertical antennas while in motion.
Since moving to a new QTH, I have no home station at the moment. But when I'm roving and using an Arrow, the SATs are easy to hear and track. I use either AmsatDroid or Look4Sat on my phone and they both do a great job.
If I were you and I just wanted to check if I could hear a SAT, here's what I would do. Pick a common SAT known to be active and well-used like SO-50. Set your RX VFO to 436.800 MHz FM. Set your antenna elevation to about 20 degrees. Look up the timing of a pass viewable from your location. Set the azimuth of your antenna in the direction of the middle time of that pass. At that time, you should hear SO-50 loud and clear with several stations making QSOs.
Since you say that your setup works fine for terrestrial QSOs, you will surely hear SO-50 if you have the pass time correct for your location and you have the azimuth set properly. If you want to verify that your MAC software is accurate, check the pass info against the AMSAT prediction calculation for your QTH on: AMSAT - AMSAT Online Satellite Pass Predictions
AMSAT - AMSAT Online Satellite Pass Predictions AMSAT is a worldwide group of Amateur Radio Operators who share an active interest in building, launching and th...
GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Friday, April 16, 2021, 03:03:38 AM EDT, Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
Bob -
Thanks for your input. Right now I am using a TH-D72 handheld and GP-95 vertical and also the IC-9700 with the M2 LEO Pack. I hear nothing with either although terrestrial reception with both is fine.
I am using MacDoppler software for tracking and have verified time and location.
73 Carl WA0CQG
On Apr 15, 2021, at 9:08 PM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
Carl,
The FM SATS are pretty easy and can be loads of fun. However, being so easy, they get quite busy at times which brings about mayhem and chaos. It takes a while for new users to learn the proper operational skills for using a single channel repeater available often nationwide.
The Linear SATS are somewhat difficult to master at first, but most folks catch on in a reasonable timeframe. They have a wide bandwidth which makes them available for quite a few QSOs to take place simultaneously. And, they can be actual QSOs as opposed to hello/goodbye types that are the norm on the FM Birds. Your 9700 is an excellent radio for the Linear SATs, whereas an HT would have been sufficient for the FM ones.
GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:57 AM Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote: What handful of Amateur Radio satellites should a newcomer focus on? The Amsat Current Status table lists 15 with current reports but many of those are telemetry only.
Is there a current “Amateur Satellite Frequency Guide? My April 2019 is pretty out of date.
I need to know what satellites I should try to hear in an effort to validate my IC-9700 and M2 Leo Pack system.
73 Carl WA0CQG
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
Were you listening in daytime or at night? Many times I have found after sunset there is little or no activity on satellites. Mid afternoon, on weekends, seems to be most active. If you hear beacon signals well, especially on XWs, your receiver is working.
73, Marshall AA0FO
On Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 8:13 AM Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
Carl,
Sorry to hear those results. You should have much better RX than that.
Many folks on the BB have similar setups.
Perhaps, the general AMSAT community can give more advice.
GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Saturday, April 17, 2021, 02:41:04 AM EDT, Carl A Estey < carl@esteys.net> wrote:
Bob:
Here are my observations: Using both the AMSAT predictions and that from MacDoppler I tried hearing SO-50 at 12:59 4/17 on a 13 minute pass. Both AMSAT and MacDoppler compared favorably. The D72 and GP-95 could hear only faintly. The 9700 and the M2 LEO Pack antenna barely copied but when I switched to my long-boom 70-cm yagii fed with 7/8” helix I I got about a S-6 signal and could see it on the scope. During the pass I heard no stations calling or in QSO. Certainly polarizations were not helping but I was really disappointed. Path losses according to MacDoppler are high - in the area of -150 to -160.
Thoughts?
73 Carl WA0CQG
On Apr 16, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
Carl,
I'm surprised you're not hearing any of the SATs, especially with your setup. Some of them are quite strong and folks have heard them with handhelds and worked them from mobiles using vertical antennas while in motion.
Since moving to a new QTH, I have no home station at the moment. But when I'm roving and using an Arrow, the SATs are easy to hear and track. I use either AmsatDroid or Look4Sat on my phone and they both do a great job.
If I were you and I just wanted to check if I could hear a SAT, here's what I would do. Pick a common SAT known to be active and well-used like SO-50. Set your RX VFO to 436.800 MHz FM. Set your antenna elevation to about 20 degrees. Look up the timing of a pass viewable from your location. Set the azimuth of your antenna in the direction of the middle time of that pass. At that time, you should hear SO-50 loud and clear with several stations making QSOs.
Since you say that your setup works fine for terrestrial QSOs, you will surely hear SO-50 if you have the pass time correct for your location and you have the azimuth set properly. If you want to verify that your MAC software is accurate, check the pass info against the AMSAT prediction calculation for your QTH on: AMSAT - AMSAT Online Satellite Pass Predictions https://www.amsat.org/track/index.php
AMSAT - AMSAT Online Satellite Pass Predictions AMSAT is a worldwide group of Amateur Radio Operators who share an active interest in building, launching and th... https://www.amsat.org/track/index.php
GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Friday, April 16, 2021, 03:03:38 AM EDT, Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
Bob -
Thanks for your input. Right now I am using a TH-D72 handheld and GP-95 vertical and also the IC-9700 with the M2 LEO Pack. I hear nothing with either although terrestrial reception with both is fine.
I am using MacDoppler software for tracking and have verified time and location.
73 Carl WA0CQG
On Apr 15, 2021, at 9:08 PM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
Carl,
The FM SATS are pretty easy and can be loads of fun. However, being so easy, they get quite busy at times which brings about mayhem and chaos. It takes a while for new users to learn the proper operational skills for using a single channel repeater available often nationwide.
The Linear SATS are somewhat difficult to master at first, but most folks catch on in a reasonable timeframe. They have a wide bandwidth which makes them available for quite a few QSOs to take place simultaneously. And, they can be actual QSOs as opposed to hello/goodbye types that are the norm on the FM Birds. Your 9700 is an excellent radio for the Linear SATs, whereas an HT would have been sufficient for the FM ones.
GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:57 AM Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
What handful of Amateur Radio satellites should a newcomer focus on? The Amsat Current Status table lists 15 with current reports but many of those are telemetry only.
Is there a current “Amateur Satellite Frequency Guide? My April 2019 is pretty out of date.
I need to know what satellites I should try to hear in an effort to validate my IC-9700 and M2 Leo Pack system.
73 Carl WA0CQG
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
On the 9700 I guess you’ve already checked that the rig’s attenuator is off and its internal preamps are turned on. The 9700 is especially deaf on 70 cm without its preamp. Also double check that the RF gain for the main band brings up the receiver noise floor at least a little when it’s up toward max on 70 cm. If no joy after the rig is set right, it points to a feedline issue. How is the 9700 connected to the LEO pack? Type, age, length of coax? Connector types? Two separate runs to the LEO pack? Etc. 73, RayKN2K
Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS
On Saturday, April 17, 2021, 11:05 AM, Marshall Toburen mrtoburen7@gmail.com wrote:
Were you listening in daytime or at night? Many times I have found after sunset there is little or no activity on satellites. Mid afternoon, on weekends, seems to be most active. If you hear beacon signals well, especially on XWs, your receiver is working. 73, Marshall AA0FO On Sat, Apr 17, 2021, 8:13 AM Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
Carl, Sorry to hear those results. You should have much better RX than that. Many folks on the BB have similar setups. Perhaps, the general AMSAT community can give more advice. GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Saturday, April 17, 2021, 02:41:04 AM EDT, Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
Bob: Here are my observations:Using both the AMSAT predictions and that from MacDoppler I tried hearing SO-50 at 12:59 4/17 on a 13 minute pass. Both AMSAT and MacDoppler compared favorably. The D72 and GP-95 could hear only faintly. The 9700 and the M2 LEO Pack antenna barely copied but when I switched to my long-boom 70-cm yagii fed with 7/8” helix I I got about a S-6 signal and could see it on the scope. Duringthe pass I heard no stations calling or in QSO. Certainly polarizations were not helping but I was really disappointed. Path losses according to MacDoppler are high - in the area of -150 to -160. Thoughts? 73Carl WA0CQG
On Apr 16, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote: Carl, I'm surprised you're not hearing any of the SATs, especially withyour setup. Some of them are quite strong and folks have heardthem with handhelds and worked them from mobiles using verticalantennas while in motion. Since moving to a new QTH, I have no home station at the moment.But when I'm roving and using an Arrow, the SATs are easy to hearand track. I use either AmsatDroid or Look4Sat on my phone and theyboth do a great job. If I were you and I just wanted to check if I could hear a SAT, here'swhat I would do. Pick a common SAT known to be active and well-usedlike SO-50. Set your RX VFO to 436.800 MHz FM. Set your antennaelevation to about 20 degrees. Look up the timing of a pass viewablefrom your location. Set the azimuth of your antenna in the direction ofthe middle time of that pass. At that time, you should hear SO-50 loudand clear with several stations making QSOs. Since you say that your setup works fine for terrestrial QSOs, you willsurely hear SO-50 if you have the pass time correct for your location andyou have the azimuth set properly. If you want to verify that your MACsoftware is accurate, check the pass info against the AMSAT predictioncalculation for your QTH on: AMSAT - AMSAT Online Satellite Pass Predictions
| | | | AMSAT - AMSAT Online Satellite Pass Predictions AMSAT is a worldwide group of Amateur Radio Operators who share an active interest in building, launching and th... |
|
|
GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Friday, April 16, 2021, 03:03:38 AM EDT, Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
Bob - Thanks for your input. Right now I am using a TH-D72 handheld and GP-95 vertical and also the IC-9700 with the M2 LEO Pack. I hear nothing with either although terrestrial reception with both is fine. I am using MacDoppler software for tracking and have verified time and location. 73Carl WA0CQG
On Apr 15, 2021, at 9:08 PM, Bob Liddy (K8BL) k8bl@ameritech.net wrote: Carl,
The FM SATS are pretty easy and can be loads of fun. However, beingso easy, they get quite busy at times which brings about mayhem andchaos. It takes a while for new users to learn the proper operationalskills for using a single channel repeater available often nationwide. The Linear SATS are somewhat difficult to master at first, but most folkscatch on in a reasonable timeframe. They have a wide bandwidth whichmakes them available for quite a few QSOs to take place simultaneously.And, they can be actual QSOs as opposed to hello/goodbye types thatare the norm on the FM Birds. Your 9700 is an excellent radio for theLinear SATs, whereas an HT would have been sufficient for the FM ones. GL/73, Bob K8BL
On Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 10:57 AM Carl A Estey carl@esteys.net wrote:
What handful of Amateur Radio satellites should a newcomer focus on? The Amsat Current Status table lists 15 with current reports but many of those are telemetry only. Is there a current “Amateur Satellite Frequency Guide? My April 2019 is pretty out of date. I need to know what satellites I should try to hear in an effort to validate my IC-9700 and M2 Leo Pack system. 73Carl WA0CQG -----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
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View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
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View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
On 04/17/21 11:16, crohtun via AMSAT-BB wrote:
internal preamps are turned on. The 9700 is especially deaf on 70 cm without its preamp.
Compared to the FT-847, a standard satellite rig, the IC-9700 is not too far off in sensitivity (MDS, SSB/CW, dBm, ARRL):
FT-847 IC-9700 Freq / Preamp-> OFF ON OFF ON 432.02 MHz -139.1 -140.8 -133 -145
That 6dB power difference with the Preamp disabled is one S-unit.
As I've posted on this forum before, a preamp at the rig is a poor substitute for a quality LNA at the antenna, unless your coax is 0dB loss. Signal that has "burned up" in the coax can never be recovered.
If you turn on your preamp to make the background noise seem louder, you're really just using it as an audio amplifier. Even worse, you might be driving the receiver stages after the preamp into a more non-linear region, creating mixing products which show up as a higher noise floor.
The best situation is a high dynamic range LNA with a very low noise figure. Pointing your antenna at "cold" sky and turning on the LNA should result in little, if any, change in the noise floor (or audio level).
Carl tells me he has a good LNA (not currently in use) which he plans to put at the antenna. Based on my observations with the XW-2 satellites, an LNA is not necessary to hear or work them with a simple J-pole in the attic.
More is always better, but I don't think the preamp is the source of his problems.
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
participants (5)
-
Bob Liddy (K8BL) -
crohtun -
Marshall Toburen -
Michael Sartoretti -
Zach Metzinger