Selection of satellite (ham and non-ham) frequencies
I'm helping teach a Technician licensing class, and one of the students has asked a question I can't answer :-) (And please correct any misinformation in this email)
My understanding is that agencies/governments - by gentleman's agreement? policy? - are supposed to request frequency coordination for satellites with inputs/outputs in the amateur bands from IARU, whether the primary payload is ham radio or not. I remember an entity a couple of years ago which launched a satellite(s) who did NOT go through IARU for satellite downlink(s) on the ham bands, and there was some dust-up over this. (Again, please help me understand this better if I'm mistaken.)
My student's question is this; who is responsible for frequency assignments for non-ham satellites, specifically, missions like Cassini and Voyager/Pioneer? Is it ITU?
I'm sure the military - and government (and commercial interests) - in other countries have their own satellite frequencies, but for scientific payloads, who is responsible for frequency allocation/coordination in near Earth orbits and intra-galactic ones? Is is ITU?
(This started a whole new thought bubble in my head about what would be the best/appropriate frequencies for missions like Cassini (antenna size and Doppler considerations, but that is for a different email, as I want to wrestle with those questions in my head first :-) )
Thanks
Philip N4HF
Philip,
For the US: If the satellite owner is a government organization the NITA controls the frequencies and assignments. For large agencies like NASA they have a team of people who do nothing but this and blocks of frequencies that NTIA lets them manage themselves (for the most part).
All others are managed by the FCC. For example a commercial TV broadcast satellite must obtain an FCC license. There are many categories of FCC licenses and many blocks of frequencies that are more or less dedicated to certain uses.
Let me provide the following on how Amateur satellites and Experimental satellites that may be licensed in spectrum allocated to the Amateur Radio Service works. This again applies to the US (other countries have other methods and procedures).
If someone like AMSAT builds a satellite for the use of Amateur licensees, and it wants to use frequencies allocated to the ARS, it first obtains coordination from the IARU then follows the notification procedures in part 97. The FCC part is pretty straight forward. The transmitter(s) in the satellite are operated under someones existing ARS license much like a mountain top repeater is operated under the license of a person (or perhaps a club). The frequencies to be used are coordinated by the Satellite Advisor to the IARU and his international committee of advisors. What that means is the builder provides the info on what freqs they would like to use, the nature of the satellite, their commanding methods and other technical details to the IARU on their form, and the IARU coordination team gets together and 'coordinates' those frequencies. Coordination means they look at all other sats using those bands and work at keeping them on separate frequencies so they don't interfere with each other (or cooperatively share them). In the notification process to the FCC you must include the info from the IARU that you have coordinated your frequencies. The IARU team does this for all amateur sates from all countries (to the extent those countries cooperate and participate, not all do.)
If someone wants to use frequencies in ARS allocated spectrum for something other than an Amateur satellite, like scientific or Experimental cubesats from universities or commercial companies, they can ask the FCC Experimental branch for an experimental license. But the FCC Experimental brance won't give them a license unless the IARU has coordinated their proposed frequencies (again, keeping them apart so they don't interfere with Amateur or other experimental usage). Experimental licensees must accept any and all interference from licensed operations and must not interfere with any licensed operations. There is no assurance that the IARU will agree with the frequencies chosen or that they will provide coordination at all. Those experimental licensees and operations are something between guests and interlopers in the Amateur allocated spectrum. The IARU endeavors to keep the experimentals separated from the Amateur by sort of using one end of a band for Amateur and the other for Experimentals.
The IARU has done a great job of this very complicate and difficult task over the years as the number of both Amateur and Experimental satellites proposed and on orbit has increased hugely. It's very hard. And most of those building experimantals don't know how this works or what they must do. Sometimes they buy hardware (radios and antennas) for their satellite without understanding how this works to find they can't get licensed where they want to be. That's costly.
In the past month I've sat as a reviewer for three university small satellite projects none of which understood this and one of which has radios they are not going to be able to use because they can't get an experimental license in that band.
We could certainly use local AMSAT folks with satellite experience as mentors for the COMM part of most of the university driven small and cubsats. It's a great opportunity to educate some young people and keep them from making technical and regulatory errors. And some of these projects can turn into Amateur satellites after their experimental or science mission is over. I'm working with one right now that has the potential to be a great Amateur on orbit resource - the owner is done with it and looking to turn it over to AMSAT if we can get it fully working in various modes again.
Jim
Jim White
Colorado Satellite Services, LLC
wd0e@amsat.org
jim@coloradosatellite.com
On 3/14/2017 4:59 PM, Philip Jenkins wrote:
I'm helping teach a Technician licensing class, and one of the students has asked a question I can't answer :-) (And please correct any misinformation in this email)
My understanding is that agencies/governments - by gentleman's agreement? policy? - are supposed to request frequency coordination for satellites with inputs/outputs in the amateur bands from IARU, whether the primary payload is ham radio or not. I remember an entity a couple of years ago which launched a satellite(s) who did NOT go through IARU for satellite downlink(s) on the ham bands, and there was some dust-up over this. (Again, please help me understand this better if I'm mistaken.)
My student's question is this; who is responsible for frequency assignments for non-ham satellites, specifically, missions like Cassini and Voyager/Pioneer? Is it ITU?
I'm sure the military - and government (and commercial interests) - in other countries have their own satellite frequencies, but for scientific payloads, who is responsible for frequency allocation/coordination in near Earth orbits and intra-galactic ones? Is is ITU?
(This started a whole new thought bubble in my head about what would be the best/appropriate frequencies for missions like Cassini (antenna size and Doppler considerations, but that is for a different email, as I want to wrestle with those questions in my head first :-) )
Thanks
Philip N4HF _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The ITU sets aside spectrum for ‘space science services’ which includes both radio astronomy and scientific spacecraft operation. The US is a member of the ITU, and in this country licensing and frequency usage is regulated by both the NTIA and FCC. In general, NASA must work with both organizations.
73 de KM1P Joe
On 3/14/2017 4:59 PM, Philip Jenkins wrote:
I'm helping teach a Technician licensing class, and one of the students has asked a question I can't answer :-) (And please correct any misinformation in this email)
My understanding is that agencies/governments - by gentleman's agreement? policy? - are supposed to request frequency coordination for satellites with inputs/outputs in the amateur bands from IARU, whether the primary payload is ham radio or not. I remember an entity a couple of years ago which launched a satellite(s) who did NOT go through IARU for satellite downlink(s) on the ham bands, and there was some dust-up over this. (Again, please help me understand this better if I'm mistaken.)
My student's question is this; who is responsible for frequency assignments for non-ham satellites, specifically, missions like Cassini and Voyager/Pioneer? Is it ITU?
I'm sure the military - and government (and commercial interests) - in other countries have their own satellite frequencies, but for scientific payloads, who is responsible for frequency allocation/coordination in near Earth orbits and intra-galactic ones? Is is ITU?
(This started a whole new thought bubble in my head about what would be the best/appropriate frequencies for missions like Cassini (antenna size and Doppler considerations, but that is for a different email, as I want to wrestle with those questions in my head first :-) )
Thanks
Philip N4HF _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Quoting Jim White who wrote on Tue 2017-03-14 at 17:51:
In the past month I've sat as a reviewer for three university small satellite projects none of which understood this and one of which has radios they are not going to be able to use because they can't get an experimental license in that band.
I guess this happens as a result of the recent successes in cubesats, other organisations see their opportunity but start of at a lower knowledge level. But given the amounts of money still involved, one would hope research into this factor would be done before investing in hardware.
We could certainly use local AMSAT folks with satellite experience as mentors for the COMM part of most of the university driven small and cubsats.
And be aware interest in cubesats may come from outside areas of science logically connected with space technology.
I can fully imagine the geo sciences department at my employer (large Dutch university) being interested in space-based sensing.
Is there a good article somewhere describing the process you posted about? A "how-to" document, with the international view on this process. I notice the AMSAT north america site mentions the IARU when describing frequency allocations to satellites, which is a very good start.
Koos van den Hout PE4KH
Koos, the IARU Frequency Coordination Request Form has some helpful guidance, see http://www.iaru.org/satellite.html
73 Trevor M5AKA
On Wednesday, 15 March 2017, 8:20, Koos van den Hout koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl wrote:
Quoting Jim White who wrote on Tue 2017-03-14 at 17:51:
In the past month I've sat as a reviewer for three university small satellite projects none of which understood this and one of which has radios they are not going to be able to use because they can't get an experimental license in that band.
I guess this happens as a result of the recent successes in cubesats, other organisations see their opportunity but start of at a lower knowledge level. But given the amounts of money still involved, one would hope research into this factor would be done before investing in hardware.
We could certainly use local AMSAT folks with satellite experience as mentors for the COMM part of most of the university driven small and cubsats.
And be aware interest in cubesats may come from outside areas of science logically connected with space technology.
I can fully imagine the geo sciences department at my employer (large Dutch university) being interested in space-based sensing.
Is there a good article somewhere describing the process you posted about? A "how-to" document, with the international view on this process. I notice the AMSAT north america site mentions the IARU when describing frequency allocations to satellites, which is a very good start.
Koos van den Hout PE4KH
Hi all,
Its hard to explain these complicated international affairs. All countries that are participating in the ITU are bound by treaties to follow the rules set by the ITU.
ITU defines "services" that describe what the radio communications is for. Examples are: Fixed-satellite service; Fixed station, Inter-satellite service, Earth exploration-satellite service, Meteorological-satellite service and for "us" the Amateur Service and Amateur Satellite Service.
ITU defines these services and does not allow a mix of services, so you need to find spectrum that is allocated to your service. The administration or administrations of your country that is handling ITU related matters is the entity that can file for frequencies, notify and coordinate with ITU et cetera. Ultimately, the administration is responsible for your satellite. Its up to that country to decide how to implement the regulatory process on a national level. Jim already addressed this for the US. Here in the Netherlands we have "Agentschap Telecom", in the UK they have "ofcom" and in Germany the "Bundesnetzagentur".
To reduce the workload on the administrations, they often require the satellite teams to fill in the application themselves, and will do a sanity check on it before filing. Again, the country is liable, so its in the administrations interest to make sure its correct.
The ITU does not say anything about coordination in the bands allocated to the Amateur Satellite Service, as they are Not Subject to Coordination. Coordination is a formal process where administrations operating services exchange information about possible new systems and do interference analysis. the Amateur Satellite Services in 2m and 70cm are Not Subject to Coordination, so you would only have to do two things: - Publish, through ITU, the Advance Publication Information (API). Administrations can review your application and object if they think you will cause interference - Publish, through ITU, a Notification, where you describe the final system and confirm you are going to use that system
In good amateur tradition, the national administrations that recognise IARU have agreed to ask for guidance from IARU and respect their band plans. the IARU in turn has appointed a panel that coordinates satellite frequencies. Some administrations will refuse to allow notification to the ITU without a positive IARU advice. The US is the odd one out with the experimentals coordinated on top of the Amateur Satellite Service, and as far as I know are the only administration doing so.
Now back to these services: in order to allocate something in the Amateur Satellite Service, it needs to comply with the rules for this service as stated in the radio regulations. "Amateur Service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorised persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest." [RR 1.56]" and "Amateur-Satellite Service: A radiocommunication service using space stations on Earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service." [RR 1.57]"
So in short: - Make sure your project belongs in the Amateur Satellite Service (you would be surprised to learn what people think is "useful" for radio amateurs) - Apply for frequencies at the IARU panel, and with the IARU frequencies go to your national regulator - Apply at your national regulator - Your national regulator then probably ask you to provide the API files, and submits those to the ITU - other administrations may send their comments on your proposed network. Your administration needs to reply to those, probably asking you for help again - Your administration published the NOTIFICATION six months or later from date of receipt of the API
In case of scientific satellites, there is no IARU, and the process gets complicated fast. There are lost of bands that are subject to coordination. You need to show other parties in the same bands that you will not cause harmful interference to their systems, The big space agencies have some frequencies set aside that they re-use, so the workload is reduced. But in general, it can become a lengthy process.
I hope that explains it a bit more. And other experts feel free to correct and amend, its complicated and I am paraphrasing a lot. there is lots of sensitivities and subtleties in the wording of the radio regulations that I can not simply convey here.
Wouter PA3WEG
On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 4:38 PM, M5AKA via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Koos, the IARU Frequency Coordination Request Form has some helpful guidance, see http://www.iaru.org/satellite.html
73 Trevor M5AKA
On Wednesday, 15 March 2017, 8:20, Koos van den Hout <koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl> wrote:Quoting Jim White who wrote on Tue 2017-03-14 at 17:51:
In the past month I've sat as a reviewer for three university small satellite projects none of which understood this and one of which has radios they are not going to be able to use because they can't get an experimental license in that band.
I guess this happens as a result of the recent successes in cubesats, other organisations see their opportunity but start of at a lower knowledge level. But given the amounts of money still involved, one would hope research into this factor would be done before investing in hardware.
We could certainly use local AMSAT folks with satellite experience as mentors for the COMM part of most of the university driven small and cubsats.
And be aware interest in cubesats may come from outside areas of science logically connected with space technology.
I can fully imagine the geo sciences department at my employer (large Dutch university) being interested in space-based sensing.
Is there a good article somewhere describing the process you posted about? A "how-to" document, with the international view on this process. I notice the AMSAT north america site mentions the IARU when describing frequency allocations to satellites, which is a very good start.
Koos van den Hout PE4KH-- Koos van den Hout Homepage: http://idefix.net/ PGP keyid 0x5BA9368BE6F334E4 Webprojects: Camp Wireless http://www.camp-wireless.org/ The Virtual Bookcase http://www.virtualbookcase.com/ _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Very well said Wouter,
Jim
On 3/16/2017 4:20 AM, Wouter Weggelaar wrote:
Hi all,
Its hard to explain these complicated international affairs. All countries that are participating in the ITU are bound by treaties to follow the rules set by the ITU.
ITU defines "services" that describe what the radio communications is for. Examples are: Fixed-satellite service; Fixed station, Inter-satellite service, Earth exploration-satellite service, Meteorological-satellite service and for "us" the Amateur Service and Amateur Satellite Service.
ITU defines these services and does not allow a mix of services, so you need to find spectrum that is allocated to your service. The administration or administrations of your country that is handling ITU related matters is the entity that can file for frequencies, notify and coordinate with ITU et cetera. Ultimately, the administration is responsible for your satellite. Its up to that country to decide how to implement the regulatory process on a national level. Jim already addressed this for the US. Here in the Netherlands we have "Agentschap Telecom", in the UK they have "ofcom" and in Germany the "Bundesnetzagentur".
To reduce the workload on the administrations, they often require the satellite teams to fill in the application themselves, and will do a sanity check on it before filing. Again, the country is liable, so its in the administrations interest to make sure its correct.
The ITU does not say anything about coordination in the bands allocated to the Amateur Satellite Service, as they are Not Subject to Coordination. Coordination is a formal process where administrations operating services exchange information about possible new systems and do interference analysis. the Amateur Satellite Services in 2m and 70cm are Not Subject to Coordination, so you would only have to do two things:
- Publish, through ITU, the Advance Publication Information (API).
Administrations can review your application and object if they think you will cause interference
- Publish, through ITU, a Notification, where you describe the final
system and confirm you are going to use that system
In good amateur tradition, the national administrations that recognise IARU have agreed to ask for guidance from IARU and respect their band plans. the IARU in turn has appointed a panel that coordinates satellite frequencies. Some administrations will refuse to allow notification to the ITU without a positive IARU advice. The US is the odd one out with the experimentals coordinated on top of the Amateur Satellite Service, and as far as I know are the only administration doing so.
Now back to these services: in order to allocate something in the Amateur Satellite Service, it needs to comply with the rules for this service as stated in the radio regulations. "Amateur Service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorised persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest." [RR 1.56]" and "Amateur-Satellite Service: A radiocommunication service using space stations on Earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service." [RR 1.57]"
So in short:
- Make sure your project belongs in the Amateur Satellite Service (you
would be surprised to learn what people think is "useful" for radio amateurs)
- Apply for frequencies at the IARU panel, and with the IARU
frequencies go to your national regulator
- Apply at your national regulator
- Your national regulator then probably ask you to provide the API
files, and submits those to the ITU
- other administrations may send their comments on your proposed
network. Your administration needs to reply to those, probably asking you for help again
- Your administration published the NOTIFICATION six months or later
from date of receipt of the API
In case of scientific satellites, there is no IARU, and the process gets complicated fast. There are lost of bands that are subject to coordination. You need to show other parties in the same bands that you will not cause harmful interference to their systems, The big space agencies have some frequencies set aside that they re-use, so the workload is reduced. But in general, it can become a lengthy process.
I hope that explains it a bit more. And other experts feel free to correct and amend, its complicated and I am paraphrasing a lot. there is lots of sensitivities and subtleties in the wording of the radio regulations that I can not simply convey here.
Wouter PA3WEG
On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 4:38 PM, M5AKA via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Koos, the IARU Frequency Coordination Request Form has some helpful guidance, see http://www.iaru.org/satellite.html
73 Trevor M5AKA
On Wednesday, 15 March 2017, 8:20, Koos van den Hout <koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl> wrote:Quoting Jim White who wrote on Tue 2017-03-14 at 17:51:
In the past month I've sat as a reviewer for three university small satellite projects none of which understood this and one of which has radios they are not going to be able to use because they can't get an experimental license in that band.
I guess this happens as a result of the recent successes in cubesats, other organisations see their opportunity but start of at a lower knowledge level. But given the amounts of money still involved, one would hope research into this factor would be done before investing in hardware.
We could certainly use local AMSAT folks with satellite experience as mentors for the COMM part of most of the university driven small and cubsats.
And be aware interest in cubesats may come from outside areas of science logically connected with space technology.
I can fully imagine the geo sciences department at my employer (large Dutch university) being interested in space-based sensing.
Is there a good article somewhere describing the process you posted about? A "how-to" document, with the international view on this process. I notice the AMSAT north america site mentions the IARU when describing frequency allocations to satellites, which is a very good start.
Koos van den Hout PE4KH-- Koos van den Hout Homepage: http://idefix.net/ PGP keyid 0x5BA9368BE6F334E4 Webprojects: Camp Wireless http://www.camp-wireless.org/ The Virtual Bookcase http://www.virtualbookcase.com/ _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thank you dear Trevor and Wouter for your detailed and comprehensive information regarding the usage of Amateur radio frequencies and subsequent procedure, importance of coordination/ filing of frequencies for cubesat/nanosat projects. I too feel that this info should reach all those people well in advance, who intend to use amateur radio frequencies for their cubesat/nanosat projects.
73 de Mani VU2WMY
Quoting Wouter Weggelaar wouterweg@gmail.com:
Hi all,
Its hard to explain these complicated international affairs. All countries that are participating in the ITU are bound by treaties to follow the rules set by the ITU.
ITU defines "services" that describe what the radio communications is for. Examples are: Fixed-satellite service; Fixed station, Inter-satellite service, Earth exploration-satellite service, Meteorological-satellite service and for "us" the Amateur Service and Amateur Satellite Service.
ITU defines these services and does not allow a mix of services, so you need to find spectrum that is allocated to your service. The administration or administrations of your country that is handling ITU related matters is the entity that can file for frequencies, notify and coordinate with ITU et cetera. Ultimately, the administration is responsible for your satellite. Its up to that country to decide how to implement the regulatory process on a national level. Jim already addressed this for the US. Here in the Netherlands we have "Agentschap Telecom", in the UK they have "ofcom" and in Germany the "Bundesnetzagentur".
To reduce the workload on the administrations, they often require the satellite teams to fill in the application themselves, and will do a sanity check on it before filing. Again, the country is liable, so its in the administrations interest to make sure its correct.
The ITU does not say anything about coordination in the bands allocated to the Amateur Satellite Service, as they are Not Subject to Coordination. Coordination is a formal process where administrations operating services exchange information about possible new systems and do interference analysis. the Amateur Satellite Services in 2m and 70cm are Not Subject to Coordination, so you would only have to do two things:
- Publish, through ITU, the Advance Publication Information (API).
Administrations can review your application and object if they think you will cause interference
- Publish, through ITU, a Notification, where you describe the final
system and confirm you are going to use that system
In good amateur tradition, the national administrations that recognise IARU have agreed to ask for guidance from IARU and respect their band plans. the IARU in turn has appointed a panel that coordinates satellite frequencies. Some administrations will refuse to allow notification to the ITU without a positive IARU advice. The US is the odd one out with the experimentals coordinated on top of the Amateur Satellite Service, and as far as I know are the only administration doing so.
Now back to these services: in order to allocate something in the Amateur Satellite Service, it needs to comply with the rules for this service as stated in the radio regulations. "Amateur Service: A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorised persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest." [RR 1.56]" and "Amateur-Satellite Service: A radiocommunication service using space stations on Earth satellites for the same purposes as those of the amateur service." [RR 1.57]"
So in short:
- Make sure your project belongs in the Amateur Satellite Service (you
would be surprised to learn what people think is "useful" for radio amateurs)
- Apply for frequencies at the IARU panel, and with the IARU
frequencies go to your national regulator
- Apply at your national regulator
- Your national regulator then probably ask you to provide the API
files, and submits those to the ITU
- other administrations may send their comments on your proposed
network. Your administration needs to reply to those, probably asking you for help again
- Your administration published the NOTIFICATION six months or later
from date of receipt of the API
In case of scientific satellites, there is no IARU, and the process gets complicated fast. There are lost of bands that are subject to coordination. You need to show other parties in the same bands that you will not cause harmful interference to their systems, The big space agencies have some frequencies set aside that they re-use, so the workload is reduced. But in general, it can become a lengthy process.
I hope that explains it a bit more. And other experts feel free to correct and amend, its complicated and I am paraphrasing a lot. there is lots of sensitivities and subtleties in the wording of the radio regulations that I can not simply convey here.
Wouter PA3WEG
On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 at 4:38 PM, M5AKA via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Koos, the IARU Frequency Coordination Request Form has some helpful guidance, see http://www.iaru.org/satellite.html
73 Trevor M5AKA
On Wednesday, 15 March 2017, 8:20, Koos van den Hout koos@kzdoos.xs4all.nl wrote:
Quoting Jim White who wrote on Tue 2017-03-14 at 17:51:
In the past month I've sat as a reviewer for three university small satellite projects none of which understood this and one of which has radios they are not going to be able to use because they can't get an experimental license in that band.
I guess this happens as a result of the recent successes in cubesats, other organisations see their opportunity but start of at a lower knowledge level. But given the amounts of money still involved, one would hope research into this factor would be done before investing in hardware.
We could certainly use local AMSAT folks with satellite experience as mentors for the COMM part of most of the university driven small and cubsats.
And be aware interest in cubesats may come from outside areas of science logically connected with space technology.
I can fully imagine the geo sciences department at my employer (large Dutch university) being interested in space-based sensing.
Is there a good article somewhere describing the process you posted about? A "how-to" document, with the international view on this process. I notice the AMSAT north america site mentions the IARU when describing frequency allocations to satellites, which is a very good start.
Koos van den Hout
PE4KH
-- Koos van den Hout Homepage:
PGP keyid
0x5BA9368BE6F334E4
Webprojects: Camp Wireless
The Virtual Bookcase
http://www.virtualbookcase.com/
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Mani [VU2WMY/KJ6LRS] Secretary & Station Director Upagrah Amateur Radio Club VU2URC ISRO Satellite Centre HAL Airport Road, Bangalore-560 017. Phone:(Office)91-80-25082598/25082054/25082192 Mobile: 91-9880 341 456 E-mail ID: wmy@isac.gov.in vu2wmy.mani@gmail.com isrohams@yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message, including any attachments, is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Much of the information you’re looking for comes in an IARU paper called Amateur Satellites http://www.iaru.org/amateur-radio-satellite-frequency-coordination.html. Also, suggest reading Controlling Satellites [PDF] http://www.iaru.org/uploads/1/3/0/7/13073366/controllingsatellites_v27.pdf and the IARU Frequency Coordination Request [doc] http://www.iaru.org/uploads/1/3/0/7/13073366/iaru_amateur_satellite_coordination_request__v37.doc.
I hope this helps.
73, art….. W4ART Arlington VA
On 17-Mar-2017, at 12:18 AM, Mani [VU2WMY/KJ6LRS] wmy@isac.gov.in wrote:
Thank you dear Trevor and Wouter for your detailed and comprehensive information regarding the usage of Amateur radio frequencies and subsequent procedure, importance of coordination/ filing of frequencies for cubesat/nanosat projects. I too feel that this info should reach all those people well in advance, who intend to use amateur radio frequencies for their cubesat/nanosat projects.
73 de Mani VU2WMY
To thrive in life, you need three bones: a wish bone, a back bone, and a funny bone. - Reba McEntire
Thanks to all who replied to my original questions. It's certainly interesting (and more complicated than I imagined).
Philip N4HF
On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 1:18 AM, Arthur Feller, W4ART afeller@ieee.org wrote:
Much of the information you’re looking for comes in an IARU paper called Amateur Satellites http://www.iaru.org/amateur-radio-satellite-frequency- coordination.html. Also, suggest reading Controlling Satellites [PDF] < http://www.iaru.org/uploads/1/3/0/7/13073366/controllingsatellites_v27.pdf%3... and the IARU Frequency Coordination Request [doc] < http://www.iaru.org/uploads/1/3/0/7/13073366/iaru_amateur_ satellite_coordination_request__v37.doc>.
I hope this helps.
73, art….. W4ART Arlington VA
On 17-Mar-2017, at 12:18 AM, Mani [VU2WMY/KJ6LRS] wmy@isac.gov.in
wrote:
Thank you dear Trevor and Wouter for your detailed and comprehensive information regarding the usage of Amateur radio frequencies and
subsequent
procedure, importance of coordination/ filing of frequencies for cubesat/nanosat projects. I too feel that this info should reach all
those
people well in advance, who intend to use amateur radio frequencies for their cubesat/nanosat projects.
73 de Mani VU2WMY
To thrive in life, you need three bones: a wish bone, a back bone, and a funny bone. - Reba McEntire
http://afeller.us http://afeller.us/
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (8)
-
Arthur Feller, W4ART -
Jim White -
Joe Fitzgerald -
Koos van den Hout -
M5AKA -
Mani [VU2WMY/KJ6LRS] -
Philip Jenkins -
Wouter Weggelaar