Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack…NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
All:
For what it's worth, I think I prefer the manual doppler correction on the highest frequency, which can be done manually. Full doppler essentially requires constant computer control of both tx & rx frequencies, AND a whole lot of accurate data.
I've had similar experiences at Field Day, and was able to pick out the guys doing full doppler, and rarely able to work them.
For whatever my opinion is worth.... 73, Jim wb4gcs@amsat.org
On 7/24/2011 5:17 PM, Tom Schaefer, NY4I wrote:
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack…NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
As far as Field Day and full Doppler correction goes:
From listening and contacting them during FD, W5MSQ uses full Doppler correction. Andy MacAllister, W5ACM could tell you for certain. They finished first in 2007, 2008, and 2010.
John Papay, K8YSE is part of the W8DXA satellite FD team, and they use full Doppler correction. They finished first in 2009 and third in 2010.
I'm part of the satellite FD team for W9LDX, and we use full Doppler correction. We finished first in the AMSAT contest in 2006, and second in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010. (The 2011 results have not been published yet.)
So for the AMSAT FD contest, full Doppler is the norm for the teams near the top of the standings.
73, Steve N9IP -- Steve Belter
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Jim Sanford Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 5:51 PM To: Tom Schaefer, NY4I Cc: Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Should I abandon full doppler correction?
All:
For what it's worth, I think I prefer the manual doppler correction on the highest frequency, which can be done manually. Full doppler essentially requires constant computer control of both tx & rx frequencies, AND a whole lot of accurate data.
I've had similar experiences at Field Day, and was able to pick out the guys doing full doppler, and rarely able to work them.
For whatever my opinion is worth.... 73, Jim wb4gcs@amsat.org
On 7/24/2011 5:17 PM, Tom Schaefer, NY4I wrote:
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack...NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I've run full Doppler the last 5 or so years for the K6AA Field Day station. It's only been the past three years I've had decent antennas, though!
73, Jim KQ6EA
On 07/25/2011 03:16 AM, Stephen E. Belter wrote:
As far as Field Day and full Doppler correction goes:
From listening and contacting them during FD, W5MSQ uses full Doppler correction. Andy MacAllister, W5ACM could tell you for certain. They finished first in 2007, 2008, and 2010.
John Papay, K8YSE is part of the W8DXA satellite FD team, and they use full Doppler correction. They finished first in 2009 and third in 2010.
I'm part of the satellite FD team for W9LDX, and we use full Doppler correction. We finished first in the AMSAT contest in 2006, and second in 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010. (The 2011 results have not been published yet.)
So for the AMSAT FD contest, full Doppler is the norm for the teams near the top of the standings.
73, Steve N9IP
Steve Belter
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Jim Sanford Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 5:51 PM To: Tom Schaefer, NY4I Cc: Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Should I abandon full doppler correction?
All:
For what it's worth, I think I prefer the manual doppler correction on the highest frequency, which can be done manually. Full doppler essentially requires constant computer control of both tx& rx frequencies, AND a whole lot of accurate data.
I've had similar experiences at Field Day, and was able to pick out the guys doing full doppler, and rarely able to work them.
For whatever my opinion is worth.... 73, Jim wb4gcs@amsat.org
On 7/24/2011 5:17 PM, Tom Schaefer, NY4I wrote:
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack...NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I am new to the linear birds and am having the same problem, Tom. It seems to be kind of a "D*(%#@ if you do and D*(%#@ if you don't" type of thing with computer doppler control. I have a FT-897 that I have used half-duplex with CAT control via SATPC32. I have also tried full-duplex using my TH-F6a as a receiver which, of course has to be manually tuned. Either way, it is not smooth going. Maybe this is why they call the FM birds "Easy Sats"...'cuz, so far, the linear birds ain't!
Chuck, KM9U
----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Schaefer, NY4I" ny4i@arrl.net To: "Amsat BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 17:17 Subject: [amsat-bb] Should I abandon full doppler correction?
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack…NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Tom,
There was an article in the Journal a few issues back on why the various manual techniques are only approximations, sometimes surprisingly bad ones. I think the author's call was WA4SCA. So it does get talked about. With an accurate clock, and current Keps it is possible to work a full pass and scarcely touch the dial. It definitely makes it easier to conduct a round table. If the transponder uses either modes L and/or S, you really don't have much choice. The change rate is just too fast for practical manual running, though VE3NPC does an amazing job. Even FM, which is very forgiving is a challenge for manual tuning at those frequencies.
My default is for full Doppler correction. If the other station is using it, fine. We can concentrate on communicating. If not, I switch off and do it the traditional way. It does provide some gentle encouragement to try a new method, and gives you an opportunity to spread the word. I am embarrassed at how long I stuck with paper logs amid all this technology. I experienced a lot of nostalgia when I transferred all my old satellite contacts to electronic format, but I have never looked back.
Hang in there. As time goes by, you will see more stations using it, as they won't have to unlearn years of experience. Just remember that it is a hobby, and there are many for whom tuning and pointing are an integral part of satellite operations. Have fun!
Alan WA4SCA
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer, NY4I Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 4:17 PM To: Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Should I abandon full doppler correction?
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack.NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Tom,
I operated that same pass of FO-29. I started with a nice conversation with Mike, WA8EBM (Michigan), then moved on to another nice conversation with Drew, KO4MA (Florida). All three of us were using full Doppler control. It was great.
I then heard you trying to chase W5BK across the passband. It is a challenge, and good practice. ;-)
I'm not knocking W5BK or any other operator who isn't using full Doppler. It takes a lot of skill (a skill I never mastered) and there can be good reasons for using manual tuning (like running portable). And I'm grateful for every contact I make, including with W5BK, WD9EWK, and ND9M, all of whom use manual tuning.
But I agree with Alan, if you're in a position to run full Doppler, do it!
73, Steve N9IP -- Steve Belter, Indiana Dataline Corp 427 N 6th Street, Suite C Lafayette, IN 47901-2211 Tel: (765) 269-8521 www.indiana-dataline.net
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Alan P. Biddle Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 6:27 PM To: 'Tom Schaefer, NY4I'; 'Amsat BB' Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Should I abandon full doppler correction?
Tom,
There was an article in the Journal a few issues back on why the various manual techniques are only approximations, sometimes surprisingly bad ones. I think the author's call was WA4SCA. So it does get talked about. With an accurate clock, and current Keps it is possible to work a full pass and scarcely touch the dial. It definitely makes it easier to conduct a round table. If the transponder uses either modes L and/or S, you really don't have much choice. The change rate is just too fast for practical manual running, though VE3NPC does an amazing job. Even FM, which is very forgiving is a challenge for manual tuning at those frequencies.
My default is for full Doppler correction. If the other station is using it, fine. We can concentrate on communicating. If not, I switch off and do it the traditional way. It does provide some gentle encouragement to try a new method, and gives you an opportunity to spread the word. I am embarrassed at how long I stuck with paper logs amid all this technology. I experienced a lot of nostalgia when I transferred all my old satellite contacts to electronic format, but I have never looked back.
Hang in there. As time goes by, you will see more stations using it, as they won't have to unlearn years of experience. Just remember that it is a hobby, and there are many for whom tuning and pointing are an integral part of satellite operations. Have fun!
Alan WA4SCA
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer, NY4I Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 4:17 PM To: Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Should I abandon full doppler correction?
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack.NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Maybe it's just the ID-10-T error I'm having, but I just tried Macdoppler on the VO-52 pass and it didn't work so well. By the time I have found my downlink via the software the pass is over. I was much quicker doing it manually and had a good contact with K8YSE.
So what's the secret? What am I missing? Either Macdoppler or HRD, suggestions are welcome.
Thanks, Michael K5TRI
On Jul 24, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Stephen E. Belter wrote:
Tom,
I operated that same pass of FO-29. I started with a nice conversation with Mike, WA8EBM (Michigan), then moved on to another nice conversation with Drew, KO4MA (Florida). All three of us were using full Doppler control. It was great.
I then heard you trying to chase W5BK across the passband. It is a challenge, and good practice. ;-)
I'm not knocking W5BK or any other operator who isn't using full Doppler. It takes a lot of skill (a skill I never mastered) and there can be good reasons for using manual tuning (like running portable). And I'm grateful for every contact I make, including with W5BK, WD9EWK, and ND9M, all of whom use manual tuning.
But I agree with Alan, if you're in a position to run full Doppler, do it!
73, Steve N9IP
Steve Belter, Indiana Dataline Corp 427 N 6th Street, Suite C Lafayette, IN 47901-2211 Tel: (765) 269-8521 www.indiana-dataline.net
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Alan P. Biddle Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 6:27 PM To: 'Tom Schaefer, NY4I'; 'Amsat BB' Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Should I abandon full doppler correction?
Tom,
There was an article in the Journal a few issues back on why the various manual techniques are only approximations, sometimes surprisingly bad ones. I think the author's call was WA4SCA. So it does get talked about. With an accurate clock, and current Keps it is possible to work a full pass and scarcely touch the dial. It definitely makes it easier to conduct a round table. If the transponder uses either modes L and/or S, you really don't have much choice. The change rate is just too fast for practical manual running, though VE3NPC does an amazing job. Even FM, which is very forgiving is a challenge for manual tuning at those frequencies.
My default is for full Doppler correction. If the other station is using it, fine. We can concentrate on communicating. If not, I switch off and do it the traditional way. It does provide some gentle encouragement to try a new method, and gives you an opportunity to spread the word. I am embarrassed at how long I stuck with paper logs amid all this technology. I experienced a lot of nostalgia when I transferred all my old satellite contacts to electronic format, but I have never looked back.
Hang in there. As time goes by, you will see more stations using it, as they won't have to unlearn years of experience. Just remember that it is a hobby, and there are many for whom tuning and pointing are an integral part of satellite operations. Have fun!
Alan WA4SCA
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Tom Schaefer, NY4I Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 4:17 PM To: Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Should I abandon full doppler correction?
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack.NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Alan!
I wanted to make a couple of points regarding some of your comments from your earlier post...
There was an article in the Journal a few issues back on why the various manual techniques are only approximations, sometimes surprisingly bad ones. I think the author's call was WA4SCA.
Yes, that WA4SCA is a good guy, smart guy. ;-)
So it does get talked about. With an accurate clock, and current Keps it is possible to work a full pass and scarcely touch the dial.
I think some forget that even with computer control, you *can* touch the big tuning knob on your receiver to see what may be away from the center of the 50 to 100 kHz passbands. If you don't want to touch your radio(s), then use the software to tune your receiver around the passband. Everyone can't work in the few kHz around the center of the passbands and have multiple simultaneous QSOs.
It has been nice to see more SSB activity on the weekends. On the past couple of Saturday mornings, I've heard SSB QSOs on VO-52 from around 145.900 MHz up to almost 145.920 MHz. Not as busy as Field Day, but you won't be out there all alone - and still have room for additional QSOs. FO-29 and AO-7 (mode B) have also had more activity on recent passes I've worked.
My default is for full Doppler correction. If the other station is using it, fine. We can concentrate on communicating. If not, I switch off and do it the traditional way.
You don't necessarily need a computer to concentrate on communicating through the linear transponders. Computers are very useful, but not mandatory. I encourage computer control for those looking to try the SSB birds, especially with software like SatPC32. It will take some time to get the software working properly with your radio(s), so be prepared to work with your radio/computer combination. Otherwise, it will take time to get the hang of working them "old school", without the assistance of a computer. It took me 6 to 8 months, including trying different antennas and radios receiving the downlinks, before settling on my current SSB satellite station configuration. Definitely not "EasySats", like the FM birds are called, but not impossible to work.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
One of the things I like most about MacDoppler is that I can turn the VFO and it will follow me. It does not enforce that I use the program to change frequencies. That allows one to use a simple VFO know interface to change frequencies while still having full Doppler correction.
I have tried every Sat program I have been able to find (PC and Mac) and it is the nicest interface so far. To me, it is worth the $500 to get a MacMini just for this program (although I have 6 macs in the house so that was not necessary).
It just clicked why most guys are around the middle of the passband if they are using computer control. If the programs put them in the middle, that is where they stay. :)
I have also experienced the issue where I am doing full correction and guys that are not doing correction move into my receiver's passband. Nothing that spinning the dial will not fix but it is funny to hear.
Lastly, a heartfelt thanks to all of you for your input. This has been invaluable. It lets me know that there is hope and I am not going against the grain by trying to use full Doppler. It was also nice seeing many of the calls that I have worked in the last few months. I'm getting my Gulf-Alpha beam up in the next couple of weeks so it should even get better. Thanks for you patience and guidance.
73,
Tom
Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable | APRS: NY4I-15
On Jul 25, 2011, at 1:29 PM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Hi Alan!
I wanted to make a couple of points regarding some of your comments from your earlier post...
There was an article in the Journal a few issues back on why the various manual techniques are only approximations, sometimes surprisingly bad ones. I think the author's call was WA4SCA.
Yes, that WA4SCA is a good guy, smart guy. ;-)
So it does get talked about. With an accurate clock, and current Keps it is possible to work a full pass and scarcely touch the dial.
I think some forget that even with computer control, you *can* touch the big tuning knob on your receiver to see what may be away from the center of the 50 to 100 kHz passbands. If you don't want to touch your radio(s), then use the software to tune your receiver around the passband. Everyone can't work in the few kHz around the center of the passbands and have multiple simultaneous QSOs.
It has been nice to see more SSB activity on the weekends. On the past couple of Saturday mornings, I've heard SSB QSOs on VO-52 from around 145.900 MHz up to almost 145.920 MHz. Not as busy as Field Day, but you won't be out there all alone - and still have room for additional QSOs. FO-29 and AO-7 (mode B) have also had more activity on recent passes I've worked.
My default is for full Doppler correction. If the other station is using it, fine. We can concentrate on communicating. If not, I switch off and do it the traditional way.
You don't necessarily need a computer to concentrate on communicating through the linear transponders. Computers are very useful, but not mandatory. I encourage computer control for those looking to try the SSB birds, especially with software like SatPC32. It will take some time to get the software working properly with your radio(s), so be prepared to work with your radio/computer combination. Otherwise, it will take time to get the hang of working them "old school", without the assistance of a computer. It took me 6 to 8 months, including trying different antennas and radios receiving the downlinks, before settling on my current SSB satellite station configuration. Definitely not "EasySats", like the FM birds are called, but not impossible to work.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
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Tom,
I tried full doppler control with HRD's sat tracking software and wasn't really thrilled to say the least. I may again try Macdoppler as it's so far the best sat program I've seen but my main shack machine unfortunately is a Windows box because HRD's logging software is more convenient than MacloggerDX with regards to eQSL and LOTW.
The other reason I do it all manual (both doppler and rotor control) is that I like to be in control :). If I would leave it all to the computer and all I'd have to do would be press the PTT then where's the fun in that? IMHO it's great building all the computer control as a PoT but then when it works it becomes boring :). I heard you loud and clear on FO-29 today.
73 Mike K5TRI
On Jul 24, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Tom Schaefer, NY4I wrote:
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack…NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
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When I bought my TS2000 several years ago I too played "chase the downlink" for about a week and did a fair job. But if it was annoying to me to have to do that, I knew how annoying it must have been to other, Doppler controlled stations chasing me. I am not a computer whiz by any means, but my frustration, and desire to avoid the 2 meter repeater characteristics of the FM birds and favor quality QSOs on the linear birds drove me to download and set up SATPC32. After a bit of study on how the CAT control works, I had it dialed in. This took place over about a 3 day period. Since my first full Doppler controlled QSO, I have never ever gone back to manual tuning- although some small adjustments are often required on real high passes. As someone said earlier, it makes lengthy roundtable QSOs possible and is a kick watching everyone's freqs move with yours as you watch the satellite light up each station's QTH.
Another satisfied customer (and regular on VO52, AO7 and FO29- thanks and with regards to Erich DK1TB)
Craig N6RSX
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Michael Schulz Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 3:34 PM To: Tom Schaefer, NY4I Cc: Amsat BB Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Should I abandon full doppler correction?
Tom,
I tried full doppler control with HRD's sat tracking software and wasn't really thrilled to say the least. I may again try Macdoppler as it's so far the best sat program I've seen but my main shack machine unfortunately is a Windows box because HRD's logging software is more convenient than MacloggerDX with regards to eQSL and LOTW.
The other reason I do it all manual (both doppler and rotor control) is that I like to be in control :). If I would leave it all to the computer and all I'd have to do would be press the PTT then where's the fun in that? IMHO it's great building all the computer control as a PoT but then when it works it becomes boring :). I heard you loud and clear on FO-29 today.
73 Mike K5TRI
On Jul 24, 2011, at 4:17 PM, Tom Schaefer, NY4I wrote:
Hi all,
I just tried a nice pass on FO-29. I heard K9CIS on CW and W5BK from Texas. In both cases, while I am using full doppler correction with my 9100 and MacDoppler, I suspect they are leaving the transmit frequency fixed as they both changed frequency. K9CIS on CW was quite extreme in the Doppler shift. I know that this is a by-product of me using full doppler to listen to stations that are not, but it seems that the majority of the stations I hear are NOT using flu doppler. I have asked this question before, but it seems to be happening more frequently.
Should I abandon full doppler correction? Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
Has anyone ever taken a survey to see how many satellite users actually use full doppler. Am I assuming more guys use computers and anyone of the multiple ways to do computer control that have ben available for years? Does anyone ever talk about this in AMSAT circles? Sort of like the encouragement one gives to people afraid of LOTW to try it? "Computers in the shack...NEVER!" I exaggerate but it seems that way. Then again, being a computer person and having computer capable rigs I realize I am skewed in my expectations. I know there are guys working with old 271/471 pairs or even the old FT726 out there. Great radios and a simple way to do it, but even they have ways to do full doppler control and they have been out for 20 years.
Thanks,
Tom Tom Schaefer, NY4I ny4i@arrl.net EL88pb Monitoring EchoLink node KJ4FEC-L 489389 DSTAR Capable APRS: NY4I-15
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Hi Tom!
Should I abandon full doppler correction?
No!
If you have it at your station, great! Take advantage of it, but remember that not everyone will have the same setup as you.
Another less black-and-white step is that if I hear a station moving to adjust my settings so I am not doing full doppler.
That's a great way to go. Then you are able to work anyone from another station that is fully under computer control, to those that may only have the computer controlling one of the two frequencies, to those that are working without a computer controlling the radios. I'm in the latter category when I operate in the field, with either two FT-817NDs or one 817 and a TH-F6A HT (using its all-mode receiver to hear the downlinks).
I've noticed that many (most?) who work FO-29 tend to leave the uplink frequency fixed and allow the downlink to drift due to Doppler. For the other two (AO-7, VO-52), it is more of a mixed bag. Anything from full computer control of both uplink and downlink to no computer control at all. If you have your station fully computer controlled, you should be able to set your software to stop controlling either - or both - of the frequencies if you desire. Some of us who don't have the computer running the radios are able to compensate for those with the computers, and be prepared to adjust both frequencies if necessary. Whatever it takes to make the QSO. :-)
When I eventually get a home station, I will almost certainly have a computer controlling my radio or radios for satellite work. When I operate in the field as I currently do, a computer is another item that I have to ensure has power, be near the radios so the computer cables reach each radio, and then deal with being able to see the screen. Until then, I will keep working the transponders with my very portable station and have fun at the same time.
Hopefully we can hook up sometime on one of those birds, Tom. 73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/
participants (9)
-
Alan P. Biddle -
D. Craig Fox -
Jim Jerzycke -
Jim Sanford -
KM9U -
Michael Schulz -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Stephen E. Belter -
Tom Schaefer, NY4I