Re: [amsat-bb] US barriers to orbit (Re: Amateur communication satellites)
Mode K is awesome!
But, it seems more "old style ham radio-y" than using VHF/UHF gear -- big-ish gear, big antennas. I was thinking about how someone with a Raspberry Pi and a VHF/UHF module would use Mode K -- my HackerLab crowd.
Like I said: Yay. More satellites.
But I sure would like to see something more modern-feeling that would appeal to the Maker/DIY/Rasperry Pi crowd.
But, see #1. :)
-- bag
Bryan KL7CN/W6 bryan@kl7cn.net
On Jun 29, 2016, at 13:00, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
Mode K was pretty popular back with RS-12/13! The Doppler shift is minimal enough at those frequencies that any normal HF transceiver in split mode will work fine.
The neat thing is the potential for subhorizon access to the satellite.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Bryan Green bryan@kl7cn.net wrote:
Yay. More satellites.
HF? Really? Huh.
Net-net: see 1.
-- bag
Bryan KL7CN/W6 bryan@kl7cn.net
On Jun 29, 2016, at 12:28, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Within the US, when someone like Bob, WB4APR, tries to build amateur communication sats, he runs into needless obstacles from FCC and NTIA.
Expand, please.
The FCC had held up our Advance Notice (API) filing on the Naval Academy's last 5 Amateur Satellites (2 in orbit!) in a disagreement over whether Amateur Satellites built by students at the Service Academies can be amateur or must operate under NTIA rules in Federal Bands.
Since the 5 satellites all had 2-way ham-user transponders on them on 2m and 70cm, the NTIA disagreed and said it was an FCC part 97 operation. FCC said it had to be Federal (and back and forth). Note, we CANNOT get an "Experimental license" from the FCC, because it is true, that our institution is Federal. But when our students build an Amateur Satellite, it does not matter who built it, what matters is how it is OPERATED.
Finally, I think the paperwork was accepted by the FCC for OPERATION in support of users in the Amateur Satellite Service and we have our fingers crossed that they will forward the API Notices to the ITU.
To avoid any recurrence of this debate, our next student experimental satellite will be a bent-pipe HF linear transponder like the early AMSATS with uplink on 15m and downlink on 10m.
We walk a fine line... In order for DOD to launch it, the experiment has to have some educational value to DOD. In order for us to be able to build something useful and economical at the undergraduate level, it needs to be amateur. So by proposing an HF transponder for our next project, we NAILED-IT!
The Feds have NO SATELLITE allocations in HF, but the Amateur Satellite Service does. Therefore if they want to let us learn anything about HF satellites, then they have to let us operate it in the Amateur Satellite Service where there will be plenty of "users" to exercise it.
So it will be a 100% amateur radio satellite for all hams worldwide and what we learn from it will have value to understaning HF satellites.
Again, fingers crossed. This would be a 2018 satellite at the earliest.
LESSON LEARNED: Don't let anyone but the Amateur Satellite Control operator get involved in the paper work. He files the paperwork and he takes the responsibility for ON/OFF command as required by the FCC.
Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
There have been several recently launched satellites that carry a digital messaging system for amateur use - either a digipeater or store and forward system. None have been fully documented to the amateur satellite community or, as far as I can tell, been activated.
It's been an unfortunate trend that satellites are launched carrying an amateur payload or with a system intended to be used by amateurs after the primary mission has been completed and then we never hear about it again. Mishaps and delays occur, but it's disappointing that these groups don't see fit to keep the amateur community updated.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Bryan KL7CN bryan@kl7cn.net wrote:
Mode K is awesome!
But, it seems more "old style ham radio-y" than using VHF/UHF gear -- big-ish gear, big antennas. I was thinking about how someone with a Raspberry Pi and a VHF/UHF module would use Mode K -- my HackerLab crowd.
Like I said: Yay. More satellites.
But I sure would like to see something more modern-feeling that would appeal to the Maker/DIY/Rasperry Pi crowd.
But, see #1. :)
-- bag
Bryan KL7CN/W6 bryan@kl7cn.net
On Jun 29, 2016, at 13:00, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
Mode K was pretty popular back with RS-12/13! The Doppler shift is minimal enough at those frequencies that any normal HF transceiver in split mode will work fine.
The neat thing is the potential for subhorizon access to the satellite.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Bryan Green bryan@kl7cn.net wrote:
Yay. More satellites.
HF? Really? Huh.
Net-net: see 1.
-- bag
Bryan KL7CN/W6 bryan@kl7cn.net
On Jun 29, 2016, at 12:28, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Within the US, when someone like Bob, WB4APR, tries to build amateur communication sats, he runs into needless obstacles from FCC and NTIA.
Expand, please.
The FCC had held up our Advance Notice (API) filing on the Naval Academy's last 5 Amateur Satellites (2 in orbit!) in a disagreement over whether Amateur Satellites built by students at the Service Academies can be amateur or must operate under NTIA rules in Federal Bands.
Since the 5 satellites all had 2-way ham-user transponders on them on 2m and 70cm, the NTIA disagreed and said it was an FCC part 97 operation. FCC said it had to be Federal (and back and forth). Note, we CANNOT get an "Experimental license" from the FCC, because it is true, that our institution is Federal. But when our students build an Amateur Satellite, it does not matter who built it, what matters is how it is OPERATED.
Finally, I think the paperwork was accepted by the FCC for OPERATION in support of users in the Amateur Satellite Service and we have our fingers crossed that they will forward the API Notices to the ITU.
To avoid any recurrence of this debate, our next student experimental satellite will be a bent-pipe HF linear transponder like the early AMSATS with uplink on 15m and downlink on 10m.
We walk a fine line... In order for DOD to launch it, the experiment has to have some educational value to DOD. In order for us to be able to build something useful and economical at the undergraduate level, it needs to be amateur. So by proposing an HF transponder for our next project, we NAILED-IT!
The Feds have NO SATELLITE allocations in HF, but the Amateur Satellite Service does. Therefore if they want to let us learn anything about HF satellites, then they have to let us operate it in the Amateur Satellite Service where there will be plenty of "users" to exercise it.
So it will be a 100% amateur radio satellite for all hams worldwide and what we learn from it will have value to understaning HF satellites.
Again, fingers crossed. This would be a 2018 satellite at the earliest.
LESSON LEARNED: Don't let anyone but the Amateur Satellite Control operator get involved in the paper work. He files the paperwork and he takes the responsibility for ON/OFF command as required by the FCC.
Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Yes Mode K is very easy. I worked many RS QSO's in CW with no problems at all. Used two Kenwood TS-830's and a multi-band Fritzel Co. Wire antenna. Only problem for me was that I had to report ever QSO with a "Soviet Bloc" country to the G2 office. After a few weeks I just gave the spooks a copy of the logbook.
73 Dave Ex-DA1BB
Sent from my iPad
On Jun 29, 2016, at 15:50, Bryan KL7CN bryan@kl7cn.net wrote:
Mode K is awesome!
But, it seems more "old style ham radio-y" than using VHF/UHF gear -- big-ish gear, big antennas. I was thinking about how someone with a Raspberry Pi and a VHF/UHF module would use Mode K -- my HackerLab crowd.
Like I said: Yay. More satellites.
But I sure would like to see something more modern-feeling that would appeal to the Maker/DIY/Rasperry Pi crowd.
But, see #1. :)
-- bag
Bryan KL7CN/W6 bryan@kl7cn.net
On Jun 29, 2016, at 13:00, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
Mode K was pretty popular back with RS-12/13! The Doppler shift is minimal enough at those frequencies that any normal HF transceiver in split mode will work fine.
The neat thing is the potential for subhorizon access to the satellite.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Bryan Green bryan@kl7cn.net wrote:
Yay. More satellites.
HF? Really? Huh.
Net-net: see 1.
-- bag
Bryan KL7CN/W6 bryan@kl7cn.net
On Jun 29, 2016, at 12:28, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Within the US, when someone like Bob, WB4APR, tries to build amateur communication sats, he runs into needless obstacles from FCC and NTIA.
Expand, please.
The FCC had held up our Advance Notice (API) filing on the Naval Academy's last 5 Amateur Satellites (2 in orbit!) in a disagreement over whether Amateur Satellites built by students at the Service Academies can be amateur or must operate under NTIA rules in Federal Bands.
Since the 5 satellites all had 2-way ham-user transponders on them on 2m and 70cm, the NTIA disagreed and said it was an FCC part 97 operation. FCC said it had to be Federal (and back and forth). Note, we CANNOT get an "Experimental license" from the FCC, because it is true, that our institution is Federal. But when our students build an Amateur Satellite, it does not matter who built it, what matters is how it is OPERATED.
Finally, I think the paperwork was accepted by the FCC for OPERATION in support of users in the Amateur Satellite Service and we have our fingers crossed that they will forward the API Notices to the ITU.
To avoid any recurrence of this debate, our next student experimental satellite will be a bent-pipe HF linear transponder like the early AMSATS with uplink on 15m and downlink on 10m.
We walk a fine line... In order for DOD to launch it, the experiment has to have some educational value to DOD. In order for us to be able to build something useful and economical at the undergraduate level, it needs to be amateur. So by proposing an HF transponder for our next project, we NAILED-IT!
The Feds have NO SATELLITE allocations in HF, but the Amateur Satellite Service does. Therefore if they want to let us learn anything about HF satellites, then they have to let us operate it in the Amateur Satellite Service where there will be plenty of "users" to exercise it.
So it will be a 100% amateur radio satellite for all hams worldwide and what we learn from it will have value to understaning HF satellites.
Again, fingers crossed. This would be a 2018 satellite at the earliest.
LESSON LEARNED: Don't let anyone but the Amateur Satellite Control operator get involved in the paper work. He files the paperwork and he takes the responsibility for ON/OFF command as required by the FCC.
Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (3)
-
Bryan KL7CN -
Dave Mann -
Paul Stoetzer