The Chinese microsats LongJiang 1 & 2 have arrived at the Moon. On 2018-05-25 between 14:00 and 15:00 UTC they are expected to pass the Moon at a distance of about 300 km. At that time they should perform a braking maneuver so that they can enter a high elliptical 300 x 9000 km orbit around the Moon. The planned orbit inclination is unknown.
Unfortunately there is virtually no information on these satellites coming from China. It is not clear if LJ 1 is recovered. Telemetry is being received from the S band downlink of LJ 2 at 2275.22 MHz. All other information, including recent orbital data, is missing.
Note that the usual satellite tracking programs and regular TLE data can not be used for tracking satellites near the Moon. You really need specific deep space tracking software and orbital elements. TLE sets for the LongJiangs that were published earlier have no value at all now that these satellites are in the vicinity of the Moon. Again I would like to refer to my web page on this subject: https://hamsat1.home.xs4all.nl/index.html
73, Nico PA0DLO
If we have our S band antennas pointed up there, shouldn't we be able to see the braking maneuver with the Doppler shift? Assuming the moon (or Earth) doesn't block the signals. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 8:22 AM Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
The Chinese microsats LongJiang 1 & 2 have arrived at the Moon. On 2018-05-25 between 14:00 and 15:00 UTC they are expected to pass the Moon at a distance of about 300 km. At that time they should perform a braking maneuver so that they can enter a high elliptical 300 x 9000 km orbit around the Moon. The planned orbit inclination is unknown.
Unfortunately there is virtually no information on these satellites coming from China. It is not clear if LJ 1 is recovered. Telemetry is being received from the S band downlink of LJ 2 at 2275.22 MHz. All other information, including recent orbital data, is missing.
Note that the usual satellite tracking programs and regular TLE data can not be used for tracking satellites near the Moon. You really need specific deep space tracking software and orbital elements. TLE sets for the LongJiangs that were published earlier have no value at all now that these satellites are in the vicinity of the Moon. Again I would like to refer to my web page on this subject: https://hamsat1.home.xs4all.nl/index.html
73, Nico PA0DLO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Jordan,
Yes, you should see a sudden change in the doppler curve. And that would be a welcome confirmation of a successful maneuver.
If you also can receive the LJ 1 S band downlink it would be extra interesting to see what happens to that signal.
73, Nico
On 25-05-18 15:47, Jordan Trewitt wrote:
If we have our S band antennas pointed up there, shouldn't we be able to see the braking maneuver with the Doppler shift? Assuming the moon (or Earth) doesn't block the signals. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 8:22 AM Nico Janssen <hamsat@xs4all.nl mailto:hamsat@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The Chinese microsats LongJiang 1 & 2 have arrived at the Moon. On 2018-05-25 between 14:00 and 15:00 UTC they are expected to pass the Moon at a distance of about 300 km. At that time they should perform a braking maneuver so that they can enter a high elliptical 300 x 9000 km orbit around the Moon. The planned orbit inclination is unknown. Unfortunately there is virtually no information on these satellites coming from China. It is not clear if LJ 1 is recovered. Telemetry is being received from the S band downlink of LJ 2 at 2275.22 MHz. All other information, including recent orbital data, is missing. Note that the usual satellite tracking programs and regular TLE data can not be used for tracking satellites near the Moon. You really need specific deep space tracking software and orbital elements. TLE sets for the LongJiangs that were published earlier have no value at all now that these satellites are in the vicinity of the Moon. Again I would like to refer to my web page on this subject: https://hamsat1.home.xs4all.nl/index.html 73, Nico PA0DLO _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org <mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org>. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
73, Nico
On 25-05-18 15:53, Nico Janssen wrote:
Jordan,
Yes, you should see a sudden change in the doppler curve. And that would be a welcome confirmation of a successful maneuver.
If you also can receive the LJ 1 S band downlink it would be extra interesting to see what happens to that signal.
73, Nico
On 25-05-18 15:47, Jordan Trewitt wrote:
If we have our S band antennas pointed up there, shouldn't we be able to see the braking maneuver with the Doppler shift? Assuming the moon (or Earth) doesn't block the signals. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 8:22 AM Nico Janssen <hamsat@xs4all.nl mailto:hamsat@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The Chinese microsats LongJiang 1 & 2 have arrived at the Moon. On 2018-05-25 between 14:00 and 15:00 UTC they are expected to pass the Moon at a distance of about 300 km. At that time they should perform a braking maneuver so that they can enter a high elliptical 300 x 9000 km orbit around the Moon. The planned orbit inclination is unknown.
Unfortunately there is virtually no information on these satellites coming from China. It is not clear if LJ 1 is recovered. Telemetry is being received from the S band downlink of LJ 2 at 2275.22 MHz. All other information, including recent orbital data, is missing.
Note that the usual satellite tracking programs and regular TLE data can not be used for tracking satellites near the Moon. You really need specific deep space tracking software and orbital elements. TLE sets for the LongJiangs that were published earlier have no value at all now that these satellites are in the vicinity of the Moon. Again I would like to refer to my web page on this subject: https://hamsat1.home.xs4all.nl/index.html
73, Nico PA0DLO
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org mailto:AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
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I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the moon orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
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Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
1. Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise (+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
2. Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly changing in comparison).
3. Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the moon orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
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In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise (+ve
Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the moon orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
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expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise (+ve
Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the moon orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
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Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
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Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
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Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise (+ve
Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the
moon
orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the
moon
orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: > >It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >No further details yet. Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp-b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the
moon
orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com wrote:
>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: > >It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >No further details yet. Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hello Mike. I saw new files but I do not know where I should to put this file (which folder?).
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 14:56:51 Subject: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp-b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the
moon
orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
>On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger >zmetzing@pobox.com >wrote: > >>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: >> >>It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >>successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >>No further details yet. >Nico, > >Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the >downlink signals? > >73, > >--- Zach >N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dimitry,
the default directory is /home/lilac/lilacsat/gr-dslwp/examples/ Edit the correct path in the Program Tracking CC block.
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 14:58 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello Mike. I saw new files but I do not know where I should to put this file (which folder?).
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 14:56:51 Subject: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp- b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the
moon
orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
>On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger >zmetzing@pobox.com >wrote: > >>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: >> >>It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >>successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >>No further details yet. >Nico, > >Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the >downlink signals? > >73, > >--- Zach >N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Mike. Understood. Program Tracking CC block request exact file, path is not enough. I should to change every day/ two days Program Tracking CC setting for each demodulator? Or I do not understand something?
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 17:23:48 Subject: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dimitry,
the default directory is /home/lilac/lilacsat/gr-dslwp/examples/ Edit the correct path in the Program Tracking CC block.
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 14:58 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello Mike. I saw new files but I do not know where I should to put this file (which folder?).
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 14:56:51 Subject: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp- b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the
moon
orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
>On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt >jmtrewitt@gmail.com >wrote: > >If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule >something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd >work >with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large >enough yagi that is. >-Jordan >KF5COQ > >>On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger >>zmetzing@pobox.com >>wrote: >> >>>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: >>> >>>It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >>>successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >>>No further details yet. >>Nico, >> >>Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the >>downlink signals? >> >>73, >> >>--- Zach >>N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Or set path to some file with chosen name and rename every new downloaded file and overwrite existed.
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Dimitry Borzenko" dibor@iname.com To: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 18:10:29 Subject: Re: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Mike. Understood. Program Tracking CC block request exact file, path is not enough. I should to change every day/ two days Program Tracking CC setting for each demodulator? Or I do not understand something?
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 17:23:48 Subject: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dimitry,
the default directory is /home/lilac/lilacsat/gr-dslwp/examples/ Edit the correct path in the Program Tracking CC block.
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 14:58 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello Mike. I saw new files but I do not know where I should to put this file (which folder?).
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 14:56:51 Subject: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp- b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
> I find that an interesting question. One would think that since > the moon >orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that >there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you >compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is >also >at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling >at. >Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites >are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the >chance >that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis >where >it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point >there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite >velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear >the >experts chime in on this. > >Michael Vivona >Sent from my iPad > >On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com >wrote: > >The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the >moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and >position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for >doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one. > >Stefan, VE4NSA > >>On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt >>jmtrewitt@gmail.com >>wrote: >> >>If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule >>something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd >>work >>with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large >>enough yagi that is. >>-Jordan >>KF5COQ >> >>>On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger >>>zmetzing@pobox.com >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: >>>> >>>>It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >>>>successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >>>>No further details yet. >>>Nico, >>> >>>Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the >>>downlink signals? >>> >>>73, >>> >>>--- Zach >>>N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Dimitry,
of course - you need the full path + filename ...
Wei, BG2BHC is updating the files regularly. If you take a look into such a tracking file you see seven columns in each line. The first column contains the date and time in Unix timestamp format. The next 3 columns contain the position in ECEF coordinates followed by 3 columns which contain the velocity in ECEF coordinates. Based on the filename you can see how long this file can be used.
You will get this error message (File is not find or EOF .....) if no valid information is found that match to the current time.
73 Mike
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 17:10 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Mike. Understood. Program Tracking CC block request exact file, path is not enough. I should to change every day/ two days Program Tracking CC setting for each demodulator? Or I do not understand something?
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 17:23:48 Subject: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dimitry,
the default directory is /home/lilac/lilacsat/gr-dslwp/examples/ Edit the correct path in the Program Tracking CC block.
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 14:58 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello Mike. I saw new files but I do not know where I should to put this file (which folder?).
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 14:56:51 Subject: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp
b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the
moon
orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
>On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt >jmtrewitt@gmail.com >wrote: > >If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule >something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd >work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large >enough yagi that is. >-Jordan >KF5COQ > >>On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger >>zmetzing@pobox.com >>wrote: >> >>>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: >>> >>>It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >>>successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >>>No further details yet. >>Nico, >> >>Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the >>downlink signals? >> >>73, >> >>--- Zach >>N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Mike. I have pointing Program Tracking CC of all decoders to the program_tracking_dslwp-b.txt file For me is more simple to change new downloaded file to "program_tracking_dslwp-b.txt" and overwrite existed then change path in the Program Tracking CC block of 2 or 4 decoders.
Thank you for the help!
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 18:46:13 Subject: AW: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
of course - you need the full path + filename ...
Wei, BG2BHC is updating the files regularly. If you take a look into such a tracking file you see seven columns in each line. The first column contains the date and time in Unix timestamp format. The next 3 columns contain the position in ECEF coordinates followed by 3 columns which contain the velocity in ECEF coordinates. Based on the filename you can see how long this file can be used.
You will get this error message (File is not find or EOF .....) if no valid information is found that match to the current time.
73 Mike
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 17:10 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Mike. Understood. Program Tracking CC block request exact file, path is not enough. I should to change every day/ two days Program Tracking CC setting for each demodulator? Or I do not understand something?
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 17:23:48 Subject: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dimitry,
the default directory is /home/lilac/lilacsat/gr-dslwp/examples/ Edit the correct path in the Program Tracking CC block.
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 14:58 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello Mike. I saw new files but I do not know where I should to put this file (which folder?).
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 14:56:51 Subject: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp
b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
> I find that an interesting question. One would think that since > the moon >orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that >there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you >compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is >also >at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling >at. >Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites >are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the >chance >that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis >where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that >point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon >satellite >velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear >the >experts chime in on this. > >Michael Vivona >Sent from my iPad > >On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com >wrote: > >The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the >moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and >position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for >doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one. > >Stefan, VE4NSA > >>On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt >>jmtrewitt@gmail.com >>wrote: >> >>If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule >>something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd >>work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a >>large >>enough yagi that is. >>-Jordan >>KF5COQ >> >>>On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger >>>zmetzing@pobox.com >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: >>>> >>>>It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >>>>successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >>>>No further details yet. >>>Nico, >>> >>>Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the >>>downlink signals? >>> >>>73, >>> >>>--- Zach >>>N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
So it sounds like they're getting ready for some more tests with this tweet from BG2BHC:
DSLWP Live CD update, for the tests comming this weekend https://t.co/Tjw5Yo9VfT @AMSAT @AmsatUK @cgbassa @dk3wn @n6rfm @ndonso @ea4gpz @m6sig @JA5BLZ
Best regards, Jordan Trewitt KF5COQ
On Wed, May 30, 2018, 11:08 AM Dimitry Borzenko dibor@iname.com wrote:
Hi Mike. I have pointing Program Tracking CC of all decoders to the program_tracking_dslwp-b.txt file For me is more simple to change new downloaded file to "program_tracking_dslwp-b.txt" and overwrite existed then change path in the Program Tracking CC block of 2 or 4 decoders.
Thank you for the help!
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 18:46:13 Subject: AW: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
of course - you need the full path + filename ...
Wei, BG2BHC is updating the files regularly. If you take a look into such a tracking file you see seven columns in each line. The first column contains the date and time in Unix timestamp format. The next 3 columns contain the position in ECEF coordinates followed by 3 columns which contain the velocity in ECEF coordinates. Based on the filename you can see how long this file can be used.
You will get this error message (File is not find or EOF .....) if no valid information is found that match to the current time.
73 Mike
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 17:10 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Mike. Understood. Program Tracking CC block request exact file, path is not enough. I should to change every day/ two days Program Tracking CC setting for each demodulator? Or I do not understand something?
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 17:23:48 Subject: AW: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dimitry,
the default directory is /home/lilac/lilacsat/gr-dslwp/examples/ Edit the correct path in the Program Tracking CC block.
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Dimitry Borzenko [mailto:dibor@iname.com] Gesendet: 30 May 2018 14:58 An: Mike Rupprecht; 'AMSAT BB' Betreff: Re: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello Mike. I saw new files but I do not know where I should to put this file (which folder?).
Regards.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Mike Rupprecht" mail@mike-rupprecht.de To: "'Dimitry Borzenko'" dibor@iname.com; "'AMSAT BB'" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 14:56:51 Subject: AW: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp
b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote: >Michael > >I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift >for a satellite orbiting the moon. > >1. Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise >(+ve >Doppler) and moonset (-ve). > >2. Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly >changing in comparison). > >3. Orbital velocity of the satellite itself. > >1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or >Moonsked. I can't help with 3. > >Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary >from >~ >+3 >to -4.5kHz at S-Band. > >With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate >Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler >shift >change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite >interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one). > >73 > >Charlie G3WDG > > > I find that an interesting question. One would think that since > > the >moon >>orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that >>there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you >>compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is >>also >>at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling >>at. >>Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites >>are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the >>chance >>that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis >>where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that >>point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon >>satellite >>velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear >>the >>experts chime in on this. >> >>Michael Vivona >>Sent from my iPad >> >>On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com >>wrote: >> >>The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the >>moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and >>position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for >>doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one. >> >>Stefan, VE4NSA >> >>>On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt >>>jmtrewitt@gmail.com >>>wrote: >>> >>>If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule >>>something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd >>>work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a >>>large >>>enough yagi that is. >>>-Jordan >>>KF5COQ >>> >>>>On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger >>>>zmetzing@pobox.com >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >>>>>successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >>>>>No further details yet. >>>>Nico, >>>> >>>>Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the >>>>downlink signals? >>>> >>>>73, >>>> >>>>--- Zach >>>>N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I lost the specifications of their Lunar orbits.
I remember they were highly elliptical orbits.
But even with the highly variable distance from the Moon, From our viewpoint here on Earth, How far away from the Moon does it actually get? 1/2 a degree? 1 degree? Or what?
In other words with typical Amateur antennas beam widths, why not simply use tracking data for the Moon itself?
Joe WB9SBD Sig The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com On 5/30/2018 6:56 AM, Mike Rupprecht wrote:
Hi Dimitry,
TLE are useles in lunar orbit.
You have to update the tracking file in all four decoders.
https://github.com/bg2bhc/dslwp_doc/blob/master/program_tracking_dslwp-b_201 80529.txt
(or later files)
73 Mike DK3WN
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] Im Auftrag von Dimitry Borzenko Gesendet: 30 May 2018 10:36 An: AMSAT BB Betreff: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hello. Have problem with running Live CD. Have made USB bootable diskONkey , system is runs. Mun Downlink Proxy is configured and Orbit TLE can be downloaded, but ALL ports is NOT connected! RTL is running and freq. calibrated. Also while running Decoder got 4 terminals running and have some message about "File is not find or EOF ....."
What I did wrong?
de 4z5cp.
------ Original Message ------ From: "Scott" scott23192@gmail.com To: "AMSAT BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: 30.05.2018 2:30:33 Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Hi Jean Marc.
I have tried to follow the news of these lunar satellites. While several of the guys with DSN capability have received the S-Band downlinks, I'm not aware of anyone hearing anything on 70cm past the first day as the sats left Earth.
In fact, even though I am listening every night for the 70cm telemetry (using the team's GNU Radio flowgraphs), I have not heard any confirmation that the 70cm transmitter is even on (telemetry -or- JT4).
-Scott, K4KDR
=======================================================
-----Original Message----- From: Jean Marc Momple Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 12:37 PM To: AMSAT BB Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang and Doppler correction
Dear All,
May be a stupid question for the experts, but genuine from me.
Has anyone received any FT4G beacon signal from the Longiang Sats so far?
I have being trying to do so for the past week without success.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On May 26, 2018, at 8:54 PM, Nico Janssen hamsat@xs4all.nl wrote:
In the coming days the doppler shift on the 70 cm downlink of LongJiang 2 will vary between +2000 and -2200 Hz (for my QTH). This can easily be calculated with GMAT using the script I published a couple of hours ago (see my earlier post).
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 26-05-18 17:44, charlie@sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk wrote:
Michael
I think that there are three main components to the Doppler shift for a satellite orbiting the moon.
- Earth rotation moving the observer toward the moon at moonrise
(+ve Doppler) and moonset (-ve).
- Earth-moon distance variation (smaller than 1, and very slowly
changing in comparison).
- Orbital velocity of the satellite itself.
1 and 2 are easy to work out using EME software, eg WSJT-X or Moonsked. I can't help with 3.
Taking today as an example, total of 1 and 2 for the moon vary from ~ +3 to -4.5kHz at S-Band.
With DSN satellites many of us use(d) JPL Horizons to calculate Doppler shift for Deep Space missions. Observing the Doppler shift change when probes were captured by the target planet was quite interesting (a slowly changing shift to a cyclic one).
73
Charlie G3WDG
I find that an interesting question. One would think that since the
moon
orbits the earth at a much much slower rate than a satellite that there would be almost no Doppler correction required. If you compensate for the speed of the orbit around the moon that is also at a much lower speed than a Earth satellite would be traveling at. Earth satellites are in the 17,000 mph range and moon satellites are in the 2000 mile an hour range orbiting speed. Also the chance that the satellite orbiting the moon could be at such an axis where it is in full visibility the earth the whole time, at that point there would not be a Doppler correction based upon satellite velocity only the moon's velocity. Will be interesting to hear the experts chime in on this.
Michael Vivona Sent from my iPad
On May 25, 2018, at 5:49 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
The problem will not be the pointing (you could just point to the moon :-) Pending distance, speed and orbit around the moon and position to earth, you might have a difficult time adjusting for doppler. I let more knowledgable folks chip in on this one.
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM Jordan Trewitt jmtrewitt@gmail.com wrote:
If it was the 70 cm downlink, you might be able to schedule something with someone else's SATNOGS station (idk how that'd work with getting a rotator to work though), if they have a large enough yagi that is. -Jordan KF5COQ
> On Fri, May 25, 2018, 12:46 PM Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com > wrote: > >> On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote: >> >> It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a >> successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. >> No further details yet. > Nico, > > Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the > downlink signals? > > 73, > > --- Zach > N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Zach,
No, I don't have information on WebSDRs. They would have to use large antennas and good preamps.
73, Nico
On 25-05-18 19:45, Zach Metzinger wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Just a comment. Note the eccentricity of 0.9658153 for both Longjiang 1 and 2 in this week's AMSAT-NA TLE distribution.
Definitely not a near circular orbit around the Earth. It is the largest eccentricity that I remember seeing.
No TLEs for Longjiang 1 and 2 next week!
Raymond Hoad WA5QGD
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Nico Janssen Sent: Friday, May 25, 2018 13:51 To: Zach Metzinger zmetzing@pobox.com; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] LongJiang 1 & 2 arrive at the Moon
Zach,
No, I don't have information on WebSDRs. They would have to use large antennas and good preamps.
73, Nico
On 25-05-18 19:45, Zach Metzinger wrote:
On 05/25/18 11:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
Nico,
Do you know of any WebSDRs which are pointed and tuned to the downlink signals?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
All,
You can track LongJiang 2 in its high elliptical orbit around the Moon with GMAT using this script: https://hamsat1.home.xs4all.nl/LongJiang2_NYC.script
This script includes the new updated orbital elements. You can change the groundstation location from NYC to your location under the GroundStation tab.
The output file ReportFile1.txt can be converted to a more usable file format with this updated Python script: https://hamsat1.home.xs4all.nl/Tracking.py This script also calculates doppler shift.
For further information on amateur deep space tracking, see this web page: https://hamsat1.home.xs4all.nl/index.html
73, Nico PA0DLO
On 25-05-18 18:25, Nico Janssen wrote:
It is confirmed from China that LongJiang 2 has performed a successful braking maneuver, so that it is now in lunar orbit. No further details yet.
73, Nico
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 8:22 AM Nico Janssen <hamsat@xs4all.nl mailto:hamsat@xs4all.nl> wrote:
The Chinese microsats LongJiang 1 & 2 have arrived at the Moon. On 2018-05-25 between 14:00 and 15:00 UTC they are expected to pass the Moon at a distance of about 300 km. At that time they should perform a braking maneuver so that they can enter a high elliptical 300 x 9000 km orbit around the Moon. The planned orbit inclination is unknown.
Unfortunately there is virtually no information on these satellites coming from China. It is not clear if LJ 1 is recovered. Telemetry is being received from the S band downlink of LJ 2 at 2275.22 MHz. All other information, including recent orbital data, is missing.
Note that the usual satellite tracking programs and regular TLE data can not be used for tracking satellites near the Moon. You really need specific deep space tracking software and orbital elements. TLE sets for the LongJiangs that were published earlier have no value at all now that these satellites are in the vicinity of the Moon. Again I would like to refer to my web page on this subject: https://hamsat1.home.xs4all.nl/index.html
73, Nico PA0DLO
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participants (12)
-
charlie＠sucklingfamily.free-online.co.uk -
Dimitry Borzenko -
Jean Marc Momple -
Joe -
Jordan Trewitt -
Mike Rupprecht -
Mvivona -
Nico Janssen -
Ray Hoad -
Scott -
Stefan Wagener -
Zach Metzinger