Hi Joe and Group,

I would have to say that if Michael's (K4MOA) QSO was not confirmed based upon remembering the call sign, 95% of the QSOs in my log are not confirmed.

Many of us use recorders because of the obvious reason - we have one hand to hold the Arrow, Elk or tripod, and the other hand is busy with an HT (or in my case, 2 HTs). There is no hand available to right call signs down. Another obvious reason behind the recorder is that most people cannot go outside and stand for a 15 minute pass, work __# of stations, and then go back inside and recall all the call signs, grid squares, RST reports, etc. If we could all recall all of the info like this, recorders would not be in use. If recorders were not being used, what would we do? You could either type it into the computer, or you could write it down on paper. This brings about the question of, why write it on paper? The bottom-line reason for writing it on paper is you don’t want to forget it, the same reason for a recorder. If you were going to remember it, why right it down? Even after taking a memory course a few months ago in college I can't go outside and remember everything. This sounds like a lot to ask of someone. Most passes are fast pace and crazy. You are not going to be able to remember every station you worked, especially if you are working from a boundary, etc.

In my mind, a QSO is confirmed when the two operators have a successful relay of information between each other. Example: "K4MOA this is WP3PZ, FK58" - "WP3PZ, this is K4MOA, EM95, QSL?" - "QSL, 73" To me, this is a confirmed QSO. When K4MOA goes inside, if he cannot remember the EXACT call of the station(s) he worked, that is not an issue of the QSO was not confirmed, it is an issue of K4MOA got a phone call right as he walked in the door and forgot the call sign of the station he worked. I know this sounds like a silly scenario, but it is reality. To me, a confirmed QSO happens at the mic, not when you are listening to a recording, or how good your memory is. I don't remember reading anything in the Tech or General books about you must remember every call sign for a QSO to be confirmed. Now, if you repeated the call back to the station incorrectly, then it is between you and your conscience; but if you could say his call back to him correctly, but just happened to forget it, I would still call this confirmed. If you have a base station and have the ability to sit at a desk and type it directly into a computer or write them down on a piece of paper, that is great, but most of the portable equipment ops are going to use a recorder.

I apologize I am repeating the same things over and over. I would be interested to hear a few other's opinions on this. Maybe I am the one that has it backwards.

73!

Zack KD8KSN

-----Original Message----- From: Joe Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:42 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Recorder battery died - anyone have a recording?2/5/2011

Now in My MIND

this was not a valid QSO,, the information was NOT all done on the radio, never mind he had the call wrong.

BUT even if he did work WP3T,

he did not know he did it

it took YOU and YOUR station to let him know it. so even if the call he thought he copied was right I would never ever think this as being a valid qso. now if the tape he made had worked fine and he later determined that he copied the call wrong it still even then is not a valid qso.

even if he had the call right is a grey area to me that it was a valid qso.

Joe WB9SBD

The Original Rolling Ball Clock Idle Tyme Idle-Tyme.com http://www.idle-tyme.com

On 2/6/2011 1:09 PM, Rick - WA4NVM wrote:

Mike,

I jumped on that one to quick. I just listened to my recording and you worked WP3PZ.

Sorry about the error, Rick

...

Hello to the group -

My recorder battery died during a pass of AO-51 yesterday (2/5/2011) I think the pass was approximately 18:53 UTC - it was a mainly east coast pass. I made a contact with WP3T, I believe, which is why I rely so much on my recorder. Many of you know how bad I mess up calls so I may have the suffix of the call incorrect. I just failed to notice the battery was running low. If anyone may be able to help me out I would appreciate it...

Thanks in advance and I hope everyone enjoys the 10 hours of Super Bowl Pre-Game...

73's,

Michael, K4MOA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

At 01:14 PM 2/6/2011, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:

I don't think the issue is whether or not you use a recorder, packet/psk31/rtty ops are not penalised because they have a computer record of the contact by virtue of the technology used for that mode. If a voice recorder is part of your shack, that's fine.

The issue is having to ask others if they heard your QSO and can tell you the details. If you chose technology to help you, fine. If your technology fails, so does the QSO. It's not acceptable to expect the rest of the world to be your log keeper.

I agree with this!

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-1.4kw*, 432-100w*, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@hotmail.com ====================================== *temp not in service

Wow,

when did using someone elses station, be a valid qso for YOUR own station?

Wow, I guess I can call every person i hear off the moon but can't copy and then just ask W5UN for a recording of all my contacts so they will be good contacts. Even tho I diddn't get any calls correct at MY station, I was able to correct all my mistakes by using a recording from HIS station, yeah that sounds valid for sure.

I do not have any problems with recording your qso nd after the pass fill in the gaps with stuff ya forgot. or I'll even give ya a stretch stuff ya missed.

But when it involves a third partys station then it is NOT a valid QSO.

Joe WB9SBD Joe On 2/6/2011 4:51 PM, Zachary Beougher wrote:

Hi Ed and Nigel,

I agree this is reasonable as well. I don’t see an issue with using someone else's recordings because your batteries died, as long as you heard the QSO, repeated the other station's call back, etc., as I said in my original email. If you aren't for sure if the station came back to your call or if he confirmed he heard you because you lost the bird or went behind a tree, then that's a different story.

I also think it's good to have a little grace - we can't expect a first-timer to the sats to jump on and copy and repeat all call signs 100%. When I first started, all I said was a "QSL," or "copy that." I imagine I frustrated a few ops who were wondering who I was QSLing. ;-)

73,

Zack KD8KSN

-----Original Message----- From: Edward R. Cole Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 5:24 PM To: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF ; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Recorder battery died - anyone have a recording?2/5/2011

At 01:14 PM 2/6/2011, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:

...

I don't think the issue is whether or not you use a recorder, packet/psk31/rtty ops are not penalised because they have a computer record of the contact by virtue of the technology used for that mode. If a voice recorder is part of your shack, that's fine.

The issue is having to ask others if they heard your QSO and can tell you the details. If you chose technology to help you, fine. If your technology fails, so does the QSO. It's not acceptable to expect the rest of the world to be your log keeper.

I agree with this!

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45

BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 144-1.4kw*, 432-100w*, 1296-testing*, 3400-winter? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep dubususa@hotmail.com ====================================== *temp not in service _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

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Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb