Re: [amsat-bb] Financial arguments about full duplex
That is what I have done, built a cheap antenna. I have a Chinese radio and I have made contacts on SO-50, half duplex. I DO NOT get on the linear birds because >primary I do not have the means to run 2M/70CM SSB. I can also understand that it would near impossible to effectively make a contact But newbies can/should be >given guidance in the form of Elmers. Not being told they are not welcome if they don't have the equipment others have.
The discussion centers on the importance of best practices being taught and demonstrated by those elmers you mention. Elmers walk with you, guiding, correcting, encouraging along the way. The need to have practical knowledge, and all too often we see people who don't operate, or just started themselves, passing out poor or erroneous information. If the shields can be dropped for long enough, there are lots of elmers right here on this list to help the newbies out. Elmers should continue to learn as well.
By the way check the prices an arrow >antenna that will give someone the best chance to get into AO-85 with a Cheap Chinese radio is about $150.00.
Elmer moment right here: The arrow without the diplexer is $60 cheaper than the one with the diplexer (http://store.amsat.org/catalog/index.php?cPath=1). Use that $60 for a 2nd receiver and now you can hear if you are getting into AO-85 or SO-50, adjust for Doppler on AO-85, and make more contacts, and cause less QRM. You'll need a set of headphones as well, about $5 at Big Lots or Walmart. Better experience for you, better for everyone else, less money.
Or, build the functionally same antenna for $10 and a few hours time, and save some more bucks. I love my Arrow(s), but a WA5VJB or IOio antenna works just as well. Links to plans can be found here: http://www.amsat.org/?page_id=2144
73, Drew KO4MA
Nicely put Drew. I also get a chuckle when I hear the "I only have one radio". When I go to any hams house and stumble into his shack there are always so many radios, antennas, switches, coax bundles, etc. The word Ham means a collector or hoarder of electrical stuff. I mean that in a good sense as I am one also, ha.
I never want to exclude anyone and actually love enticing new hams into working the birds. I can definitely feel for those that try to work SO-50 and all they hear is sqqqaakkkk squeeeek buzzzz.
Tell you what. If there is any ham out there that really can't afford another antenna, then I would be more than happy to help them out. I have a brand new Elk antenna with the velcro bag. Never used! If it will help I will send it to you for free. I never want to discourage anyone. I look at it as guidance to new hams to help them be proficient operators. Working full duplex is a blast. Michael
From: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com To: Jerry Conner jerryconn@aol.com; AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2016 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Financial arguments about full duplex
That is what I have done, built a cheap antenna. I have a Chinese radio and I have made contacts on SO-50, half duplex. I DO NOT get on the linear birds because >primary I do not have the means to run 2M/70CM SSB. I can also understand that it would near impossible to effectively make a contact But newbies can/should be >given guidance in the form of Elmers. Not being told they are not welcome if they don't have the equipment others have.
The discussion centers on the importance of best practices being taught and demonstrated by those elmers you mention. Elmers walk with you, guiding, correcting, encouraging along the way. The need to have practical knowledge, and all too often we see people who don't operate, or just started themselves, passing out poor or erroneous information. If the shields can be dropped for long enough, there are lots of elmers right here on this list to help the newbies out. Elmers should continue to learn as well.
By the way check the prices an arrow >antenna that will give someone the best chance to get into AO-85 with a Cheap Chinese radio is about $150.00.
Elmer moment right here: The arrow without the diplexer is $60 cheaper than the one with the diplexer (http://store.amsat.org/catalog/index.php?cPath=1). Use that $60 for a 2nd receiver and now you can hear if you are getting into AO-85 or SO-50, adjust for Doppler on AO-85, and make more contacts, and cause less QRM. You'll need a set of headphones as well, about $5 at Big Lots or Walmart. Better experience for you, better for everyone else, less money.
Or, build the functionally same antenna for $10 and a few hours time, and save some more bucks. I love my Arrow(s), but a WA5VJB or IOio antenna works just as well. Links to plans can be found here: http://www.amsat.org/?page_id=2144
73, Drew KO4MA
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I know full well what it's like to be on a budget and not have a lot of disposable income to spend on radio. I'm not a wealthy person by any stretch of the imagination. I've known a few hams in my lifetime who could spend what they wanted when they wanted to on radio. Unfortunately, most of us are not that lucky. When I first got into satellite operation I had inherited a good deal of HF radio equipment from my late Father, the original holder of the callsign W4HIJ. It was more stuff than I could use and I managed to sell it off slowly and generate enough funds to buy myself a Kenwood TS-2000X. Since it covered "DC to daylight" I figured that might be the last radio I would ever buy. I had an HF antenna to hook up to it but the problem was that since I had blown my whole wad of cash on the rig, I had no money left for a satellite antenna system. So I began scrimping and saving every dime I could and began doing lots of research on the internet. Eventually I was able to build a couple of WA5VJB cheap yagis with PVC booms and aluminum elements taken from an old damaged 11 element 2 meter beam. I found a circuit on the internet that used a BASIC STAMP to interface with the shack PC and control a couple of old Gemini OR-360 TV antenna rotators which I found a source for online. I had to buy everything like the rotators and circuit components almost one piece at a time as money permitted but I eventually had a full fledged sat station with a PC controlled rig and homebrew Az/El antenna control. This was during the heyday of A0-51 and I even managed to get my hands on some S band stuff although I never could get it to work. Unfortunately that thing called life reared it's head and I had no choice but to sell my rig to pay for a major repair on one of the family cars. Family always comes first. I left my antenna system up because it was also controlling the Azimuth pointing of an HF mini beam that I used with an old boat anchor HF rig that I had kept as a spare. Eventually the PVC booms on the homebrew sat antennas began to weaken and crack due to constant UV exposure. I had painted them but it didn't help so I took them down. It was also about the same time that something went west in the homebrew rotator control and took out the power transformer, BASIC STAMP and a couple of relays and I had no money to fix it and replace the bad components. I had a couple of 2 meter and 70cm HT's so I built a dual band version of the cheap yagi and devised a mount to put it on an old camera tripod I already had to work full duplex on some of the FM sats. However, I quickly discovered that standing outside on the deck in the heat or cold to work FM sats just wasn't my cup of tea. More power to those of you who enjoy it but I'm just not happy without the comfort of a base station located in the indoor shack. I was off the satellites for awhile and acquired a Flex 1500 which I enjoyed immensely but again had to sell to help with some family financial issues. Fast forward to the very recent past. We actually got a pretty good tax refund this year and after taking care of various bills and such there was enough left over that my beautiful XYL let me combine it with money I had been saving to purchase a Yaesu FT-991 and a Funcube Pro + SDR dongle. I also thought that I was going to be able to get the Yaesu AZ/EL rotator system that I've coveted for years but again that fell through because of family financial issues. My plan was and still is to have a new full duplex satellite base station but right now I have nothing to rotate antennas even if only in the azimuth plane and foregoing elevation control. Things have gotten extremely tight again financially and I'm having a hard time saving even for a basic TV rotator. My point in relating this whole story is to point out and explain that I'm not trying to be some elitist snob when I'm insisting that folks need to be working full duplex. I'm actually probably worse off than a lot of you when it comes to finances and disposable income for hobbies. Maybe the word "mandatory" is a little much but it was originally Clint's word and not mine. I just picked it up out of his PDF and maybe used it a little stronger than I should have. Full duplex should be a "best practice" and if someone is not using it for whatever reason it should be something they aspire to and implement in whatever type sat setup they have as swiftly as possible. If you have never used it before you will be amazed at how much simpler and efficient it makes things not only for you but for the entire group of sat operators who are on the bird at any given time. 73, Michael W4HIJ
"Full duplex should be a "best practice" and if someone is not using it for whatever reason it should be something they aspire to and implement in whatever type sat setup they have as swiftly as possible."
Agreed.
Steve AI9IN
On 2016-06-28 19:18, Michael wrote:
I know full well what it's like to be on a budget and not have a lot of disposable income to spend on radio. I'm not a wealthy person by any stretch of the imagination. I've known a few hams in my lifetime who could spend what they wanted when they wanted to on radio. Unfortunately, most of us are not that lucky. When I first got into satellite operation I had inherited a good deal of HF radio equipment from my late Father, the original holder of the callsign W4HIJ. It was more stuff than I could use and I managed to sell it off slowly and generate enough funds to buy myself a Kenwood TS-2000X. Since it covered "DC to daylight" I figured that might be the last radio I would ever buy. I had an HF antenna to hook up to it but the problem was that since I had blown my whole wad of cash on the rig, I had no money left for a satellite antenna system. So I began scrimping and saving every dime I could and began doing lots of research on the internet. Eventually I was able to build a couple of WA5VJB cheap yagis with PVC booms and aluminum elements taken from an old damaged 11 element 2 meter beam. I found a circuit on the internet that used a BASIC STAMP to interface with the shack PC and control a couple of old Gemini OR-360 TV antenna rotators which I found a source for online. I had to buy
everything like the rotators and circuit components almost one piece at a time as money permitted but I eventually had a full fledged sat station with a PC controlled rig and homebrew Az/El antenna control. This was during the heyday of A0-51 and I even managed to get my hands on some S band stuff although I never could get it to work.
Unfortunately that thing called life reared it's head and I had no choice but to sell my rig to pay for a major repair on one of the family cars. Family always comes first. I left my antenna system up because it was also controlling the Azimuth pointing of an HF mini beam that I used with an old boat anchor HF rig that I had kept as a spare. Eventually the PVC booms on the homebrew sat antennas began to weaken and crack due to constant UV exposure. I had painted them but it didn't help so I took them down. It was also about the same time that something went west in the homebrew rotator control and took out the power transformer, BASIC STAMP and a couple of relays and I had no money to fix it and replace the bad components. I had a couple of 2 meter and 70cm HT's so I built a dual band version of the cheap yagi and devised a mount to put it on an old camera tripod I already had to work full duplex on some of the FM sats. However, I quickly discovered that standing outside on the deck in the heat or cold to work FM sats just wasn't my cup of tea. More power to those of you who enjoy it but I'm just not happy without the comfort of a base station located in the indoor shack. I was off the satellites for awhile and acquired a Flex 1500 which I enjoyed immensely but again had to sell to help with some family financial issues. Fast forward to the very recent past. We actually got a pretty good tax refund this year and after taking care of various bills and such there was enough left over that my beautiful XYL let me combine it with money I had been saving to purchase a Yaesu FT-991 and a Funcube Pro + SDR dongle. I also thought that I was going to be able to get the Yaesu AZ/EL rotator system that I've coveted for years but again that fell through because of family financial issues. My plan was and still is to have a new full duplex satellite base station but right now I have nothing to rotate antennas even if only in the azimuth plane and foregoing elevation control. Things have gotten extremely tight again financially and I'm having a hard time saving even for a basic TV rotator. My point in relating this whole story is to point out and explain that I'm not trying to be some elitist snob when I'm insisting that folks need to be working full duplex. I'm actually probably worse off than a lot of you when it comes to finances and disposable income for hobbies. Maybe the word "mandatory" is a little much but it was originally Clint's word and not mine. I just picked it up out of his PDF and maybe used it a little stronger than I should have. Full duplex should be a "best practice" and if someone is not using it for whatever reason it should be something they aspire to and implement in whatever type sat setup they have as swiftly as possible. If you have never used it before you will be amazed at how much simpler and efficient it makes things not only for you but for the entire group of sat operators who are on the bird at any given time. 73, Michael W4HIJ _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (4)
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Andrew Glasbrenner -
Michael -
mvivona＠yahoo.com -
skristof＠etczone.com