It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites. Is this because... * Lack of equipment? * Erratic operational schedules? * Proliferation of non-attended stations (beacons)? * Too much button pushing? Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability. Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO. Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling. One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8. (click on target call in station list) * [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid] * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid] * R [Target Grid] * RR [My Grid] (click on log QSO) Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks. Just a thought. 73, Robert KE4AL
I love the APRSAT space.
One of the factors in the past has been iGate (satGate) availability. The ability to verify contact after a pass is reaffirming and rewarding. My favorite is the TNC from Mobilinkd - http://www.mobilinkd.com/
I've been able to connect that to an Arduino for sending packets and sharing them on the Internet as an iGate (satGate).
Fun Stuff!
Robert MacHale . KE6BLR FCC Licensed Radio Operator . http://www.aprsat.com/predict . http://www.spaceCommunicator.club%C2%A0 . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration Silly Joke: What did the little mountain say to the bigger mountain? Hi Cliff! He who dares not offend cannot be honest. -- THOMAS PAINE
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow men. True nobility lies in being superior to your former self. -- ERNEST HEMINGWAY
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 12:04:07 PM PDT, Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites. Is this because... * Lack of equipment? * Erratic operational schedules? * Proliferation of non-attended stations (beacons)? * Too much button pushing? Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability. Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO. Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling. One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8. (click on target call in station list) * [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid] * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid] * R [Target Grid] * RR [My Grid] (click on log QSO) Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks. Just a thought. 73, Robert KE4AL _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I was not aware of the TNC from Mobilinkd, so thanks for the tip. Interesting that their newest version includes BT connectivity to a smartphone app - something that almost every op has handy when making "portable" sat QSOs. It's compatible with APRSdroid and they are working on adding iOS. A prescribed format APRS message app, running on a smartphone, would be an interesting alternative to the raspberry pi route. The TNC's small form factor would make it more usable. $120 is a reasonable solution for those who do not want to build one. For the more adventurous types, building one looks like only $20-$30 worth of parts. NOTE: I own APRS capable HTs and Mobiles and have made APRS QSOs; however, I am exploring ways to make APRS messaging more accessible and more enjoyable for everyone. I think automating/symplifying the QSO process, with a low-cost add on to existing equipment, could do that. Robert KE4AL
I use a combination of an HT or mobile rig connected to a Mobilinkd for APRS messages.
If connected to an Android phone you can use APRSdroid plus a keyboard with macros like CanalRun to quickly exchange preconfigured messages.
The TNC can also be paired via Bluetooth to a PC or Raspberry Pi.
73 Fernando KF7R
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020, 1:45 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
I was not aware of the TNC from Mobilinkd, so thanks for the tip.
Interesting that their newest version includes BT connectivity to a smartphone app - something that almost every op has handy when making "portable" sat QSOs. It's compatible with APRSdroid and they are working on adding iOS.
A prescribed format APRS message app, running on a smartphone, would be an interesting alternative to the raspberry pi route. The TNC's small form factor would make it more usable.
$120 is a reasonable solution for those who do not want to build one. For the more adventurous types, building one looks like only $20-$30 worth of parts.
NOTE: I own APRS capable HTs and Mobiles and have made APRS QSOs; however, I am exploring ways to make APRS messaging more accessible and more enjoyable for everyone. I think automating/symplifying the QSO process, with a low-cost add on to existing equipment, could do that.
Robert KE4AL _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Here is something I used to use to type in messages while mobile with my D-700 years ago. It worked great for typing in APRS messages in the Kenwood radios...
https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=4960
I wonder if it is still available, what do you think John?
73 Jeff kb2m
amsat-bb@amsat.org -----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 4:44 PM To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
I was not aware of the TNC from Mobilinkd, so thanks for the tip.
Interesting that their newest version includes BT connectivity to a smartphone app - something that almost every op has handy when making "portable" sat QSOs. It's compatible with APRSdroid and they are working on adding iOS.
A prescribed format APRS message app, running on a smartphone, would be an interesting alternative to the raspberry pi route. The TNC's small form factor would make it more usable.
$120 is a reasonable solution for those who do not want to build one. For the more adventurous types, building one looks like only $20-$30 worth of parts.
NOTE: I own APRS capable HTs and Mobiles and have made APRS QSOs; however, I am exploring ways to make APRS messaging more accessible and more enjoyable for everyone. I think automating/symplifying the QSO process, with a low-cost add on to existing equipment, could do that.
Robert KE4AL _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Alas, no longer available. --- Ciao baby, catch you on the flip side 73 de W3AB/GEO
You can say "over", you can say "out", you just can't say "over and out".
On Wednesday, August 26, 2020, 04:49:55 PM PDT, Jeff via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Here is something I used to use to type in messages while mobile with my D-700 years ago. It worked great for typing in APRS messages in the Kenwood radios...
https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=4960
I wonder if it is still available, what do you think John?
73 Jeff kb2m
amsat-bb@amsat.org -----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2020 4:44 PM To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
I was not aware of the TNC from Mobilinkd, so thanks for the tip. Interesting that their newest version includes BT connectivity to a smartphone app - something that almost every op has handy when making "portable" sat QSOs. It's compatible with APRSdroid and they are working on adding iOS. A prescribed format APRS message app, running on a smartphone, would be an interesting alternative to the raspberry pi route. The TNC's small form factor would make it more usable. $120 is a reasonable solution for those who do not want to build one. For the more adventurous types, building one looks like only $20-$30 worth of parts. NOTE: I own APRS capable HTs and Mobiles and have made APRS QSOs; however, I am exploring ways to make APRS messaging more accessible and more enjoyable for everyone. I think automating/symplifying the QSO process, with a low-cost add on to existing equipment, could do that. Robert KE4AL _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
What I wish APRS radio manufacturers would do is add parsing on the GPS port for messages from an external keyboard. Then let hams build the external keyboard.
The GPS parser is looking for GPXXX strings and could eequlaly well look for APMSG... And the external keyboard could generate the APMSG..... message. Would seem to be a trivial ask...
Bob
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 7:57 PM GEO Badger via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Alas, no longer available.
Here is something I used to use to type in messages while mobile with my D-700 years ago. It worked great for typing in APRS messages in the Kenwood radios...
https://www.eham.net/reviews/view-product?id=4960
I wonder if it is still available, what do you think John?
73 Jeff kb2m
UISS will do a lot of that.
http://users.belgacom.net/hamradio/uiss.htm
You need to use something like Soundmodem or Direwolf with it but it works pretty well. I've done "QSOs" with it.
Steve AI9IN
----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB (amsat-bb@amsat.org) Date: 08/26/20 15:03 To: AMSAT BB (amsat-bb@amsat.org) Subject: [amsat-bb] APRS Messaging QSOs
It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites. Is this because... * Lack of equipment? * Erratic operational schedules? * Proliferation of non-attended stations (beacons)? * Too much button pushing? Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability. Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO. Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling. One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8. (click on target call in station list) * [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid] * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid] * R [Target Grid] * RR [My Grid] (click on log QSO) Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks. Just a thought. 73, Robert KE4AL _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Robert,
There are a few issues at play currently...
1. Availability of orbiting digipeaters. The current ISS packet system appears to be hard of hearing. It can hear strong signals, and those with lower-power stations - like the APRS-ready HTs - are only able to get through on the higher passes. If the new ISS radio and power supply are installed and set to operate an APRS digipeater, this issue with the ISS digipeater may go away.
Besides the ISS, NO-84's digipeater is rarely on. FalconSat-3 is available, but that requires more sophisticated radio gear due to its use of 9600bps packet and operating cross-band. FalconSat can be worked with just a Kenwood TH-D72 or TM-D710G, as those radios support cross- band packet at 9600bps, and (try to) do that full-duplex.
2. Unattended stations. This has been an issue for a long time on 145.825 MHz. It is not legal for US stations to operate in the 145.800-146.000 MHz and 435-438 MHz subbands unattended, yet it happens. I referenced this in articles I wrote for the AMSAT Journal and QST in the past couple of years, and those are available from the "Articles" folder in my Dropbox space at http://dropbox.wd9ewk.net/
3. Button-pushing. It can take many presses to generate a very short message using a DTMF keypad on APRS-ready radios. Some of the radios, the Kenwood HTs and mobile radios in particular, provide a way to store prepared messages (they are called "phrases" in the Kenwood manuals) that can be called up with fewer button presses. Others use programs like UISS on a Windows system to handle APRS, including messaging. UISS can work with software like AGWPE or SoundModem, avoiding the need for a TNC.
The APRS messaging protocol takes care of showing the sender and recipient. This can leave the message text to convey information like a grid locator(s) and state, or a "TNX/73" at the end of a QSO. The AMSAT Journal article I co-wrote about packet on the TH-D72 and TH-D74, which is available from:
https://www.amsat.org/station-and-operating-hints/
described my message setup. I store 3 prepared messages in my radios, and normally use two of the 3 in making QSOs, following the process outlined in AMSAT Field Day rules for a complete QSO.
A small computer could be useful here, allowing more radios to be used with the orbiting packet digipeaters. A TNC probably isn't needed, if the audio hardware on the computer is connected to the radio's speaker and mic jacks. If the small computer could compile a list of stations heard, and the user could select one of those stations for a message, that could reduce the button pressing needed to send messages.
Hoping for the new ISS radio and power supply to be installed and activated soon...
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK or http://twitter.com/WD9EWK
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 7:02 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites. Is this because...
- Lack of equipment? * Erratic operational schedules? * Proliferation
of non-attended stations (beacons)? * Too much button pushing? Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability. Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO. Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling. One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8. (click on target call in station list) * [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid] * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid] * R [Target Grid] * RR [My Grid] (click on log QSO) Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks. Just a thought. 73, Robert KE4AL
There are a couple reasons why more people are active on the ISS digipeater (IMHO):
It's somewhat deaf. The barrage of unattended stations that beacon every few seconds.
With that said, it's still easy to work and a lot of fun. I frequently work it using a vintage Kenwood TH-D7 and an Arrow. What makes it more fun (challenging) for me is that the D7 cannot store 'canned' messages and I have to type out each message in T9 format, live, during the pass.
Even with all the garbage, unattended stations beaconning their email addresses and other junk, it's still quite possible to make contacts. As long as there are these unattended stations, it will make working APRS via the ISS challenging. It may be challenging, but it's definitely not impossible. There's really no need for things such as a Raspberry Pi or other equipment, an old (20+ years) HT like my D7 is still plenty capable of making contacts on the ISS, NO-84 (when it's on) and FalconSat-3.
My suggestion would be for the organization to work on educating the masses about unattended operation on the APRS capable satellites. By removing that QRM, it will make it much easier for live operators to have successful QSOs.
Jeff WE4B http://we4bravo.com
On Wed, Aug 26, 2020 at 2:57 PM Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
It's a shame that their are not more APRS messaging satellite QSOs being done via ARISS and other satellites. Is this because...
- Lack of equipment? * Erratic operational schedules? * Proliferation
of non-attended stations (beacons)? * Too much button pushing? Most ops you an HT and very few of those have APRS messaging capability. Those HT's that do (including mobiles) are a bit clunky and require fast thumbs to complete all of the necessary steps to complete a QSO. Of course the more you do it, the more second nature it becomes, but that circles back to the erratic scheduling. One solution could be to develop an app or software with prescribed message formatting and QSO automation, similar to similar FT8. (click on target call in station list) * [Target Call] [My Call] [My Grid] * [My Call] [Target Call] (Target Grid] * R [Target Grid] * RR [My Grid] (click on log QSO) Single board computers could easily handle the task (even the Pi Zero), for those worried about keeping their station small. Only thing left would be a microarduino TNC or soundcard and a couple cables to the HT mic and earphone jacks. Just a thought. 73, Robert KE4AL _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 08/26/20 16:04, Jeff Johns via AMSAT-BB wrote:
The barrage of unattended stations that beacon every few seconds.
This is the main problem with ALOHA-like TX scheduling, or lack thereof.[1]
We're using slow, outdated Bell 202 modems to transmit data on 2 meters. There are better ways, and better technology to do so.
Take, for instance, the proliferation of "sub-1GHz" digital radio modem chips from TI, ST, NXP, Silicon Labs, ON semi, etc. Many of them can transmit in most amateur bands between 2m and 928MHz.
Let's get out of the 2m packet mindset and on to higher data rate networks on 1.25m, 70cm, and 33cm!
I've got a small back-burner project which I hope to share when I get some time. It is along these lines.
--- Zach N0ZGO
I frequently work
it using a vintage Kenwood TH-D7 and an Arrow. What makes it more fun (challenging) for me is that the D7 cannot store 'canned' messages and I have to type out each message in T9 format, live, during the pass.
Hummh.. I do not remember such a limitation. Cannot you just call up an
old message and edit/resend it? Bob
participants (10)
-
Fernando Ramirez -
GEO Badger -
Jeff Johns -
kb2mjeff＠att.net -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Robert Bankston -
Robert Bruninga -
Robert MacHale -
Steve Kristoff -
Zach Metzinger