Clayton,

Thanks for the "Heads-Up" worked perfect. A couple of taps on the "-" key and SatPC32 tracked the satellite perfect. Had a QSO with Glenn. Nice sounding transponder.

KO6TZ Bob

I should have been a little more clear in my email earlier. The transponder on LilacSat-2 active today was not the normal FM one but rather a SSB transponder. It is experimental and has no AGC according to the reports from Twitter. I'd suggest paying attention to the AMSAT OSCAR status page (http://www.amsat.org/status) and following BG2BHC on Twitter for operational updates.

I was using manual control but you can add this line to your DOPPLER.SQF. It will need some minor calibration:

LILACSAT-2,437200.0,144362.0,USB,USB,NOR,0,0,SSB Transponder

73 Clayton W5PFG

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 9:26 AM, Clayton Coleman <kayakfishtx at gmail.com> wrote:

This morning, Glenn AA5PK, and I had a QSO via the experimental transponder activated on LilacSat-2. It was very interesting and fun. A non-inverting mode J transponder was new to me.

Using manual tuning to adjust for Doppler shift proved to be a small challenge as I am more accustomed to operating on a transponder like FO-29. Running SDR in parallel to my Icom IC-9100 gave me a good visual representation of the transponder pass band.

You can listen to a brief clip of our QSO here:

I understand there have been some questions about how inverting vs. non-inverting transponders and why it makes a difference with the Doppler shift.

At AOS, the satellite is moving towards you. A 435 MHz downlink signal for a LEO satellite is going to appear to be about 10 kHz higher than the frequency at which the satellite is transmitting (this does vary based on orbital altitude, and thus velocity). At the same time, your 145 MHz uplink signal is going to appear at the satellite to be about 3.5 kHz higher than the frequency at which you're transmitting.

Let's look at an example for FO-29, an inverting mode V/U (J) linear transponder satellite, based on these estimated numbers:

The convention for manual tuning for Doppler on amateur satellites is to tune the highest of the tune frequencies and leave the other one alone as much as possible, so someone calling CQ will generally leave their transmit fixed and tune only their downlink on a mode V/U linear transponder satellite. If you uplink at 145.925 MHz at your AOS, your signal will appear to be about 145.928.5 MHz at the satellite, since the transponder is inverting (uplinks from 145.900 MHz - 146.000 MHz corresponding to downlinks from 435.900 MHz - 435.800 Mhz), FO-29's transponder will retransmit your signal at 435.871.5 MHz. So at your AOS, you will receive your signal at about 435.881.5 MHz. At your LOS, with the satellite moving away from you, the satellite's downlink frequency will appear to be about 10 kHz lower and your uplink frequency will appear to be about 3.5 kHz lower at the satellite. FO-29 will be receiving your uplink signal at 145.921.5 MHz and will retransmit that at 435.878.5 MHz, which will appear to be 435.868.5 MHz at your LOS. The total Doppler shift encountered by the user is thus 13 kHz. You'll note that this is the difference between the total shift on the downlink (20 kHz) and the total shift on the uplink (7 kHz).

When the frequencies are inverted, the sidebands of a SSB signal are naturally inverted as well. The convention is to always receive on USB. Users therefore transmit on LSB.

Now, let's try this example on LilacSat-2's non-inverting mode V/U linear transponder. The uplink frequencies for the transponder are 144.342.5 MHz - 144.382.5 MHz and the downlink frequencies are 437.180 MHz - 437.220 MHz. If you uplink in the center of the passband, at 144.362.5 MHz, at AOS your signal will appear to be approximately 144.366 MHz at the satellite. LilacSat-2, with it's passband non-inverted, will retransmit this signal at 437.203.5 MHz, and you will receive your signal on the ground at 437.213.5 MHz. At your LOS, your signal will appear to be approximately 144.359 MHz at the satellite and it will retransmit this signal at 437.196.5 MHz, which you will receive on the ground at 437.186.5 MHz. The total Doppler shift encountered by the user is thus 27 kHz. You'll note that this is the SUM of the total shift on the downlink (20 kHz) and the total shift on the uplink (7 kHz).

Of course, when using a non-inverted transponder, the sidebands will not be inverted, so you'll naturally transmit in USB to receive your signal on USB as well.

By inverting the frequencies on the downlink, more than half of the total Doppler shift is canceled out, making manual tuning much easier! Mode A (V/A), K (H/A), and T (H/V) transponders have traditionally been non-inverting due to the low total Doppler shift at those frequencies, but those using higher frequencies have used inverted passbands since the first one was flown on AO-7. The P4A analog transponder on Es'HailSat-2 will be an exception, being non-inverting despite the use of 2.4 GHz and 10 GHz, but that's because the satellite will be nearly stationary relative to the ground users and the total Doppler shift will be very minimal. I do not know why LilacSat-2's SDR linear transponder was programmed to be non-inverting, but based on the comments made on Twitter by a member of the Harbin University team, it was added purely as an experiment (after all, when you're using an SDR, different modes are just lines of code, no new hardware is needed). The transponder also lacks automatic gain control, which is critical for maintaining the linearity of downlink signals on a linear transponder. Strong signals on the transponder may cause distortion of downlink signals. As always, it's important to keep your ERP at a reasonable level.

73,

Paul, N8HM

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:36 AM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:

I hope to be able to catch it at some point. I was on the 09:51 UTC pass over the Atlantic, but only heard the familiar telemetry bursts of the satellite in it's default mode.

Keep in mind that this transponder is entirely done in software - the second software defined linear transponder to fly after the ARISSat-1 transponder. Being non-inverting adds a bit of a challenge for manual operators, but nothing that can't be handled.

LilacSat-2 is a neat satellite. When turned on it's been in FM transponder mode most often, but the on-board SDR also has programming for an APRS digipeater as well as a linear transponder as we've seen the past couple of days. Unfortunately, it suffers from periodic resets and resets to a telemetry only mode, so you never really know whether or not it will be on when it comes over.

73,

Paul, N8HM

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 9:18 AM, KO6TZ Bob my.callsign@verizon.net wrote:

...

Clayton,

Thanks for the "Heads-Up" worked perfect. A couple of taps on the "-" key and SatPC32 tracked the satellite perfect. Had a QSO with Glenn. Nice sounding transponder.

KO6TZ Bob

I should have been a little more clear in my email earlier. The transponder on LilacSat-2 active today was not the normal FM one but rather a SSB transponder. It is experimental and has no AGC according to the reports from Twitter. I'd suggest paying attention to the AMSAT OSCAR status page (http://www.amsat.org/status) and following BG2BHC on Twitter for operational updates.

I was using manual control but you can add this line to your DOPPLER.SQF. It will need some minor calibration:

LILACSAT-2,437200.0,144362.0,USB,USB,NOR,0,0,SSB Transponder

73 Clayton W5PFG

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 9:26 AM, Clayton Coleman <kayakfishtx at gmail.com> wrote:

...

This morning, Glenn AA5PK, and I had a QSO via the experimental transponder activated on LilacSat-2. It was very interesting and fun. A non-inverting mode J transponder was new to me.

Using manual tuning to adjust for Doppler shift proved to be a small challenge as I am more accustomed to operating on a transponder like FO-29. Running SDR in parallel to my Icom IC-9100 gave me a good visual representation of the transponder pass band.

You can listen to a brief clip of our QSO here:

---

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