Hi Stefan,
So the answer on my question if my 433MHz toy car, when I put it into space, can get an OSCAR number is YES! According to the AMSAT website you mentioned of course... :-P - My question was not specific if these satellites can or can't get an OSCAR number. My intention was more if they should be scheduled as a ham-sat (and with that using ham frequencies).
I would recommend you to read the following IARU website! http://www.iaru.org/satellite/prospective.html (especially section VI. OPERATIONAL GUIDELINES) It says the following:
"Organisations building satellites should compare their mission plans to the requirements of the amateur-satellite service. Then, they should determine if it is possible to comply with the requirements of the amateur-satellite service or if licensing and operation should be in some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission.
A. The purposes of an amateur satellite should be: (1) To provide communication resources for the general amateur radio community and/or (2) To conduct technical investigations in all respects consistent with the Radio Regulations. [See RR S1.56 and RR S1.57.]"
I have great doubts with many off those CubeSats, if they comply to number (1).... The only communication resources they provide is for themselves by a cheap downlink system, by using hams to receive data for them. This is not for the general amateur radio community as mentioned in number (1)...
The option they have is to go to "some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission."
73 de PE1RAH, William
Would recommend reading the info on AMSAT's website!
Stefan, VE4NSA
I would like to first say that yes, many of these Cubesats projects do a really poor job of providing information about themselves and they have a lot of room for improvement.
Second that amateur bands are used not only for the fact that there are already established ground stations, but because getting licensed on some other piece of spectrum is a substantial investment of time and money, and many of the student projects simply don't have excessive reserves of either. Granted many of them would love to move off amateur bands, find a little open spectrum in the GHz range where they can blast data down at some incredible speed, in which case they could move more data in a few seconds then they could collect in a day, which makes things many design issues much easier. Alas when you tell a student to start filling out paperwork that may get a response before they graduate, and until then there isn't much they can do until they can lock down that parameter, chances are if they are smart they will run off to do something else like build a race car, or a robot and you loose someone else in the next generation of rocket scientist.
Thirdly I have been reading the AMSAT-BB's for several months and I can see why there wouldn't be many people working on CubeSats hanging around. In order for anything productive to come of discussions like this, people from the CubeSat community need to be more involved but they aren't going to be inclined to do so when the conversations reads like dialog from "Grumpy Old Men". Nano and Pico Satellites aren't a simple evolution of existing technologies but a large paradigm shift, one which I don't think anyone even now fully understands. When you don't have thoughtful discussions between both sides issues don't get addressed, and everyone's feelings get hurt. I would suggest using cubesat.org as a starting point.
Anthony Odenthal KE7OSN President Amateur Radio Club at OSU
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 13:34, William Leijenaar pe1rah@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Stefan,
So the answer on my question if my 433MHz toy car, when I put it into space, can get an OSCAR number is YES! According to the AMSAT website you mentioned of course... :-P
- My question was not specific if these satellites can or can't get an
OSCAR number. My intention was more if they should be scheduled as a ham-sat (and with that using ham frequencies).
I would recommend you to read the following IARU website! http://www.iaru.org/satellite/prospective.html (especially section VI. OPERATIONAL GUIDELINES) It says the following:
"Organisations building satellites should compare their mission plans to the requirements of the amateur-satellite service. Then, they should determine if it is possible to comply with the requirements of the amateur-satellite service or if licensing and operation should be in some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission.
A. The purposes of an amateur satellite should be: (1) To provide communication resources for the general amateur radio community and/or (2) To conduct technical investigations in all respects consistent with the Radio Regulations. [See RR S1.56 and RR S1.57.]"
I have great doubts with many off those CubeSats, if they comply to number (1).... The only communication resources they provide is for themselves by a cheap downlink system, by using hams to receive data for them. This is not for the general amateur radio community as mentioned in number (1)...
The option they have is to go to "some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission."
73 de PE1RAH, William
Would recommend reading the info on AMSAT's website!
Stefan, VE4NSA
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thanks,
Cubesats working within the amateur radio frequency spectrum are commanded by licensed ham radio operators with the same rights and requirements as all of us. Many of them use the frequencies to downlink vital satellite information as well as scientific experiment data. All of this is well within the amateur radio service rules and a very positive contribution by our community to science and education. Your question are valid and they need to be addressed in a constructive, supportive environment where the community works together. I would encourage you attend one or more of the many annual cubists conferences and engage these folks. You certainly have enough to offer!
Now having said that, cubesats are a wonderful addition, not a threat and show the diversity of our community. I am always amazed by the ignorance displayed and self-proclaimed expert label used by some as an argument to deny parts of our community their right to use small satellites with amateur radio on board. Interestingly, none of the amateur radio operators working with cubesats have ever argued against HEOs or denied the rest of us that right by questioning how and why we use the spectrum!
Fortunately, AMSAT NA and AMSAT UK and many others have recognized the potential and the inclusiveness of the community.
Enough said,
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:34 PM, William Leijenaar pe1rah@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Stefan,
So the answer on my question if my 433MHz toy car, when I put it into space, can get an OSCAR number is YES! According to the AMSAT website you mentioned of course... :-P
- My question was not specific if these satellites can or can't get an OSCAR number.
My intention was more if they should be scheduled as a ham-sat (and with that using ham frequencies).
I would recommend you to read the following IARU website! http://www.iaru.org/satellite/prospective.html (especially section VI. OPERATIONAL GUIDELINES) It says the following:
"Organisations building satellites should compare their mission plans to the requirements of the amateur-satellite service. Then, they should determine if it is possible to comply with the requirements of the amateur-satellite service or if licensing and operation should be in some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission.
A. The purposes of an amateur satellite should be: (1) To provide communication resources for the general amateur radio community and/or (2) To conduct technical investigations in all respects consistent with the Radio Regulations. [See RR S1.56 and RR S1.57.]"
I have great doubts with many off those CubeSats, if they comply to number (1).... The only communication resources they provide is for themselves by a cheap downlink system, by using hams to receive data for them. This is not for the general amateur radio community as mentioned in number (1)...
The option they have is to go to "some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission."
73 de PE1RAH, William
Would recommend reading the info on AMSAT's website!
Stefan, VE4NSA
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Not to mention the cost of launch to HEO. No one with the capability is giving it away or discounting it.
John
Sent from my iPod
On Nov 12, 2011, at 8:43 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks,
Cubesats working within the amateur radio frequency spectrum are commanded by licensed ham radio operators with the same rights and requirements as all of us. Many of them use the frequencies to downlink vital satellite information as well as scientific experiment data. All of this is well within the amateur radio service rules and a very positive contribution by our community to science and education. Your question are valid and they need to be addressed in a constructive, supportive environment where the community works together. I would encourage you attend one or more of the many annual cubists conferences and engage these folks. You certainly have enough to offer!
Now having said that, cubesats are a wonderful addition, not a threat and show the diversity of our community. I am always amazed by the ignorance displayed and self-proclaimed expert label used by some as an argument to deny parts of our community their right to use small satellites with amateur radio on board. Interestingly, none of the amateur radio operators working with cubesats have ever argued against HEOs or denied the rest of us that right by questioning how and why we use the spectrum!
Fortunately, AMSAT NA and AMSAT UK and many others have recognized the potential and the inclusiveness of the community.
Enough said,
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:34 PM, William Leijenaar pe1rah@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Stefan,
So the answer on my question if my 433MHz toy car, when I put it into space, can get an OSCAR number is YES! According to the AMSAT website you mentioned of course... :-P
- My question was not specific if these satellites can or can't get an OSCAR number.
My intention was more if they should be scheduled as a ham-sat (and with that using ham frequencies).
I would recommend you to read the following IARU website! http://www.iaru.org/satellite/prospective.html (especially section VI. OPERATIONAL GUIDELINES) It says the following:
"Organisations building satellites should compare their mission plans to the requirements of the amateur-satellite service. Then, they should determine if it is possible to comply with the requirements of the amateur-satellite service or if licensing and operation should be in some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission.
A. The purposes of an amateur satellite should be: (1) To provide communication resources for the general amateur radio community and/or (2) To conduct technical investigations in all respects consistent with the Radio Regulations. [See RR S1.56 and RR S1.57.]"
I have great doubts with many off those CubeSats, if they comply to number (1).... The only communication resources they provide is for themselves by a cheap downlink system, by using hams to receive data for them. This is not for the general amateur radio community as mentioned in number (1)...
The option they have is to go to "some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission."
73 de PE1RAH, William
Would recommend reading the info on AMSAT's website!
Stefan, VE4NSA
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Stefan, I wholeheartedly support your comments. We made a conscious decision many years ago, that in retirement, we would support the Cubesat Program by downloading their telemetry, to give something back to the hobby. Being licensed nigh on 50 years ago and being part of the Amateur Satellite Service for most of those, I would like to think that these young Cubesat designers may become the Amateur Satellite builders of the future, but I doubt I that may be around to reap their rewards. Then again I have been mistaken before. Personally I do not care if a satellite has an OSCAR moniker, we just download whatever telemetry is available from the current Cubesat satellites to assist them in their ongoing analyses.
This is not the first time this has been raised, as I remember a few years back, Bob Bruninga raising the topic in respect to one of the satellites he was involved in.
Best regards, Colin VK5HI.
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Wagener Sent: Sunday, 13 November 2011 13:14 To: William Leijenaar Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: OSCAR or not OSCAR ?
Thanks,
Cubesats working within the amateur radio frequency spectrum are commanded by licensed ham radio operators with the same rights and requirements as all of us. Many of them use the frequencies to downlink vital satellite information as well as scientific experiment data. All of this is well within the amateur radio service rules and a very positive contribution by our community to science and education. Your question are valid and they need to be addressed in a constructive, supportive environment where the community works together. I would encourage you attend one or more of the many annual cubists conferences and engage these folks. You certainly have enough to offer!
Now having said that, cubesats are a wonderful addition, not a threat and show the diversity of our community. I am always amazed by the ignorance displayed and self-proclaimed expert label used by some as an argument to deny parts of our community their right to use small satellites with amateur radio on board. Interestingly, none of the amateur radio operators working with cubesats have ever argued against HEOs or denied the rest of us that right by questioning how and why we use the spectrum!
Fortunately, AMSAT NA and AMSAT UK and many others have recognized the potential and the inclusiveness of the community.
Enough said,
Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 3:34 PM, William Leijenaar pe1rah@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Stefan,
So the answer on my question if my 433MHz toy car, when I put it into
space, can get an OSCAR number is YES!
According to the AMSAT website you mentioned of course... :-P
- My question was not specific if these satellites can or can't get an
OSCAR number.
My intention was more if they should be scheduled as a ham-sat (and with
that using ham frequencies).
I would recommend you to read the following IARU website! http://www.iaru.org/satellite/prospective.html (especially section VI. OPERATIONAL GUIDELINES) It says the following:
"Organisations building satellites should compare their mission plans to the requirements of the amateur-satellite service. Then, they should determine if it is possible to comply with the requirements of the amateur-satellite service or if licensing and operation should be in some other radio service which is more consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission.
A. The purposes of an amateur satellite should be: (1) To provide communication resources for the general amateur radio community and/or (2) To conduct technical investigations in all respects consistent with
the Radio Regulations. [See RR S1.56 and RR S1.57.]"
I have great doubts with many off those CubeSats, if they comply to number
(1)....
The only communication resources they provide is for themselves by a cheap
downlink system, by using hams to receive data for them. This is not for the general amateur radio community as mentioned in number (1)...
The option they have is to go to "some other radio service which is more
consistent with the nature and requirements of the mission."
73 de PE1RAH, William
Would recommend reading the info on AMSAT's website!
Stefan, VE4NSA
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (5)
-
Colin Hurst -
John -
KE7OSN -
Stefan Wagener -
William Leijenaar