I understand why FM satellites need an PL tone on uplink (to keep out land-mobile services, like taxi-cabs, etc), but why is a PL not required for the linear sats utilizing the same frequencies? A linear transponder is certainly capable of receiving/transmitting an FM signal (albeit not successfully demodulating that signal).
This question came up at a satellite presentation I did, and I had never thought about it. ( Moreover, will radios even transmit a PL on SSB/CW transmissions?)
Philip N4HF
Its more about saving TX power than anything else. If anything opens the squelch on an FM transponder, it is FULL TX power from the satellite even if almost nothing is there.
On a linear bird, the oTX power is proportional to the input. so the spacecraft power is not wasted on wek signals.
Bob WB4APR
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Philip Jenkins n4hf.philip@gmail.com wrote:
I understand why FM satellites need an PL tone on uplink (to keep out land-mobile services, like taxi-cabs, etc), but why is a PL not required for the linear sats utilizing the same frequencies? A linear transponder is certainly capable of receiving/transmitting an FM signal (albeit not successfully demodulating that signal).
This question came up at a satellite presentation I did, and I had never thought about it. ( Moreover, will radios even transmit a PL on SSB/CW transmissions?)
Philip N4HF _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Think about how SSB changes the pitch of your voice whenever it is off frequency so your tone would be off frequency as well. Most importantly is that linear transponders don’t demodulate anything and are basically a bent pipe. Whatever comes in the passband is mixed with an LO and retransmitted on another frequency.
73, Mike Diehl W8LID
On Feb 3, 2018, at 10:45, Philip Jenkins n4hf.philip@gmail.com wrote:
I understand why FM satellites need an PL tone on uplink (to keep out land-mobile services, like taxi-cabs, etc), but why is a PL not required for the linear sats utilizing the same frequencies? A linear transponder is certainly capable of receiving/transmitting an FM signal (albeit not successfully demodulating that signal).
This question came up at a satellite presentation I did, and I had never thought about it. ( Moreover, will radios even transmit a PL on SSB/CW transmissions?)
Philip N4HF _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Kinda problematic with CW?
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 2/3/2018 09:45, Philip Jenkins wrote:
I understand why FM satellites need an PL tone on uplink (to keep out land-mobile services, like taxi-cabs, etc), but why is a PL not required for the linear sats utilizing the same frequencies? A linear transponder is certainly capable of receiving/transmitting an FM signal (albeit not successfully demodulating that signal).
This question came up at a satellite presentation I did, and I had never thought about it. ( Moreover, will radios even transmit a PL on SSB/CW transmissions?)
Philip N4HF _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Probably not an available mode on production equipment, MCW should work, if you could find anyone interested :-)
Ron VE8RT
On Sat, 3 Feb 2018 14:12:06 -0600 Jerry Buxton n0jy@amsat.org wrote:
Kinda problematic with CW?
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 2/3/2018 09:45, Philip Jenkins wrote:
I understand why FM satellites need an PL tone on uplink (to keep out land-mobile services, like taxi-cabs, etc), but why is a PL not required for the linear sats utilizing the same frequencies? A linear transponder is certainly capable of receiving/transmitting an FM signal (albeit not successfully demodulating that signal).
This question came up at a satellite presentation I did, and I had never thought about it. ( Moreover, will radios even transmit a PL on SSB/CW transmissions?)
Philip N4HF _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The FM SATs decode discreet frequencies. The PL Tone goes up as 67 Hz and is detected only at that particular freq.
The Linear SATs receive a wide bandpass and the incoming signals are beat against the SAT local oscillator and the resultant freq is the differential. Therefore, the resultant freqs are different based upon that differential. With multiple signals coming up to the SAT on their different freqs within the bandpass, which one would only have exactly 67 Hz? Tune across any HF Band with CW/SSB signals and you'll hear the result of multiple signals/freqs.
Bob K8BL
On 2/3/2018 09:45, Philip Jenkins wrote:
I understand why FM satellites need an PL tone on uplink (to keep out
land-mobile services, like taxi-cabs, etc), but why is a PL not required
for the linear sats utilizing the same frequencies? A linear transponder is
certainly capable of receiving/transmitting an FM signal (albeit not
successfully demodulating that signal).
This question came up at a satellite presentation I did, and I had never
thought about it. ( Moreover, will radios even transmit a PL on SSB/CW
transmissions?)
Philip N4HF
I guess there might be a very simple answer:
On FM (one channel) satellites without the PL tone, any unwanted signal can mess it up for everyone; on linear satellites any unwanted signal (uplink) will mess up only a small portion (specific downlink frequency) and the rest is still available. Bottom line PL tones on FM sats helps all of us. No PL tones on linear sats will not be a significant problem.
My simple mind :-)
73 Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 9:11 PM, R.T.Liddy k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
The FM SATs decode discreet frequencies. The PL Tone goes up as 67 Hz and is detected only at that particular freq.
The Linear SATs receive a wide bandpass and the incoming signals are beat against the SAT local oscillator and the resultant freq is the differential. Therefore, the resultant freqs are different based upon that differential. With multiple signals coming up to the SAT on their different freqs within the bandpass, which one would only have exactly 67 Hz? Tune across any HF Band with CW/SSB signals and you'll hear the result of multiple signals/freqs.
Bob K8BL
On 2/3/2018 09:45, Philip Jenkins wrote:
I understand why FM satellites need an PL tone on uplink (to keep out
land-mobile services, like taxi-cabs, etc), but why is a PL not
required
for the linear sats utilizing the same frequencies? A linear
transponder is
certainly capable of receiving/transmitting an FM signal (albeit not
successfully demodulating that signal).
This question came up at a satellite presentation I did, and I had
never
thought about it. ( Moreover, will radios even transmit a PL on SSB/CW
transmissions?)
Philip N4HF
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Thank you, Stefan! You answered the question that I was really trying to ask...and didn't express very well.
What I meant to ask initially is why unwanted FM signals on the uplink of a linear bird didn't pose (much of) a problem while unwanted FM signals on an FM sat did; I understood the latter, but not the former...and now I know!
Thanks to everyone who responded
73 de Philip N4HF
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 10:25 PM, Stefan Wagener wageners@gmail.com wrote:
I guess there might be a very simple answer:
On FM (one channel) satellites without the PL tone, any unwanted signal can mess it up for everyone; on linear satellites any unwanted signal (uplink) will mess up only a small portion (specific downlink frequency) and the rest is still available. Bottom line PL tones on FM sats helps all of us. No PL tones on linear sats will not be a significant problem.
My simple mind :-)
73 Stefan, VE4NSA
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 9:11 PM, R.T.Liddy k8bl@ameritech.net wrote:
The FM SATs decode discreet frequencies. The PL Tone goes up as 67 Hz and is detected only at that particular freq.
The Linear SATs receive a wide bandpass and the incoming signals are beat against the SAT local oscillator and the resultant freq is the differential. Therefore, the resultant freqs are different based upon that differential. With multiple signals coming up to the SAT on their different freqs within the bandpass, which one would only have exactly 67 Hz? Tune across any HF Band with CW/SSB signals and you'll hear the result of multiple signals/freqs.
Bob K8BL
On 2/3/2018 09:45, Philip Jenkins wrote:
I understand why FM satellites need an PL tone on uplink (to keep out
land-mobile services, like taxi-cabs, etc), but why is a PL not
required
for the linear sats utilizing the same frequencies? A linear
transponder is
certainly capable of receiving/transmitting an FM signal (albeit not
successfully demodulating that signal).
This question came up at a satellite presentation I did, and I had
never
thought about it. ( Moreover, will radios even transmit a PL on
SSB/CW
transmissions?)
Philip N4HF
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (7)
-
Jerry Buxton -
Mike Diehl -
Philip Jenkins -
R.T.Liddy -
Robert Bruninga -
Ron VE8RT -
Stefan Wagener