We are living in a new commercial space era, where there are no more free rides to orbit. Spaceflight has become a fully commercialized venture and if you can't pay, you can't play. Since our service is specifically chartered "without pecuniary interest", we don't have a business model to use satellites to generate revenue as all of the other "new space" players plan to do.
We can pursue free Cubesat launches through NASA, but I have not seen any offers from NASA for sponsored 6U or larger Cubesat launches to higher orbits, and we need to pack some kind of science or technology payload into an already too-small satellite to qualify for a free launch through NASA. For the kind of HEO mission that we want, a 6U is the smallest satellite that can produce the necessary solar energy and provide the necessary thermal control, a subject that is all but ignored by most of the Cubesat community. The professional space community still views Cubesats as little more than educational toys which don't need to reach high orbits or perform a serious mission lasting more than six months before reentry.
If we want a HEO satellite we need to raise the money, hopefully by more reliable methods than buying lottery tickets, which my high school math teacher used as a classic example of a poor way to invest your money. I have seen articles in QST describing DX-peditions costing a half million dollars to active remote islands, and many of us have no trouble finding money for a new radio or to travel to Dayton once a year, so I know that the ham community is not impoverished, but we seem to be allergic to writing a check to AMSAT. The QO-100 mission was funded by royal patronage, which is lacking in our hemisphere, so we must follow our capitalist heritage where everything that is worth doing has a price.
73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
------ Original Message ------ Received: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 11:21:42 AM EDT From: David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Looking to HEO
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of
magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule
can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you.V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite,
then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high
enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment. David G0MRF
New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant
obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated
than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration
aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design
cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million.
Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at
https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at
https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at
Dan,
Well said.
Yes, basically it boils down to money…
Unfortunately no luck with the Lottery this side but will try again as it is just a game, but also a way to create awareness that we need huge sums.
I tend to agree that HAM may be able to finance same by donations and believe that a global well organized fund raising through all HAM organizations worldwide may work out. As we are not reaching out to all HAMs, as an example in 3B8 there is around 20 “active” HAMs and I am probably the only one who donated for satellites and I guess the number of donators for satellites is relatively low compared to the HAM population worldwide.
Having at least one champion (individual or club) in every country to promote the action may help. At least it is worth trying as doing nothing will not create the needed "Lottery jackpot”.
One AMSAT organization may wish to take the lead of that.
Just food for thought.
73
Jean Marc (3B8DU)
On Nov 7, 2021, at 4:43 AM, Daniel Schultz n8fgv@usa.net wrote:
We are living in a new commercial space era, where there are no more free rides to orbit. Spaceflight has become a fully commercialized venture and if you can't pay, you can't play. Since our service is specifically chartered "without pecuniary interest", we don't have a business model to use satellites to generate revenue as all of the other "new space" players plan to do.
We can pursue free Cubesat launches through NASA, but I have not seen any offers from NASA for sponsored 6U or larger Cubesat launches to higher orbits, and we need to pack some kind of science or technology payload into an already too-small satellite to qualify for a free launch through NASA. For the kind of HEO mission that we want, a 6U is the smallest satellite that can produce the necessary solar energy and provide the necessary thermal control, a subject that is all but ignored by most of the Cubesat community. The professional space community still views Cubesats as little more than educational toys which don't need to reach high orbits or perform a serious mission lasting more than six months before reentry.
If we want a HEO satellite we need to raise the money, hopefully by more reliable methods than buying lottery tickets, which my high school math teacher used as a classic example of a poor way to invest your money. I have seen articles in QST describing DX-peditions costing a half million dollars to active remote islands, and many of us have no trouble finding money for a new radio or to travel to Dayton once a year, so I know that the ham community is not impoverished, but we seem to be allergic to writing a check to AMSAT. The QO-100 mission was funded by royal patronage, which is lacking in our hemisphere, so we must follow our capitalist heritage where everything that is worth doing has a price.
73, Dan Schultz N8FGV
------ Original Message ------ Received: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 11:21:42 AM EDT From: David G0MRF via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Re: Looking to HEO
It is an interesting set of challenges which are several orders of
magnitude greater than a 1U with a Z axis magnet in LEO.
Of course there is a de-risking strategy where the 25yr orbital debris rule
can be mitigated by flying an elliptical orbit. e.g Geostationary transfer orbit.. Then just wait for perigee reduction to do your re-entry for you.V+U band will work with omni antennas. Modern digital modes will work nicely at apogee, while simple ground stations can use the lower part of the orbit. - What an incentive to improve your station!
If you really need S C or X band with directional antennas on the satellite,
then the attitude can be adjusted with magnetorquers during perigee.
No fuel required.....If you can identify a launch with a perigee that's high
enough. If not, then a 1/2U pulsed plasma thruster may be able to nudge it up a little every apogee.
Good luck. It's a tough assignment. David G0MRF
New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant
obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions.
-----Original Message----- From: Robert Bankston via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org To: AMSAT BB amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Fri, 5 Nov 2021 0:27 Subject: [AMSAT-BB] Looking to HEO
Returning to higher Earth orbits (HEO) is proving to be more complicated
than past AMSAT’s missions. New and proposed U.S. regulatory restrictions are creating significant obstacles (and in some cases, barriers ) in our path. In addition, the de facto CubeSat form factor requires us to downsize and even shoehorn many of the necessary systems into a spacecraft no larger than a loaf of bread (3U) or small briefcase (6U). As an example, finding a micro-propulsion system that will satisfy our delta-v budget for achieving attitude and orbit control, orbital transfers, and end-of-life deorbiting or a move-away-and-stay-away storage solution, is one such challenge. If that’s not enough, we have to find a propellant safe enough to satisfy launch provider restrictions. I know that doing more with less has always been the unofficial motto of AMSAT, but this was generally in reference to our project funding. Now, we have to take that same approach to our design of CubeSat sub-systems, capable of operating in higher Earth orbits.
A ride-share opportunity (similar to AMSAT-DL’s amateur radio integration
aboard Es'hail 2 / QO-100) would certainly make our return to HEO easier. Unfortunately, finding a geostationary prospect over the Western Hemisphere has proven to be harder than we hoped. Absent a gift from the satellite gods, we need to press on with designing, building, and operating our own HEO spacecraft.
NASA JPL’s Mars Cube One (MarCO) CubeSats could offer invaluable design
cues for our own HEO-bound spacecraft. In 2018, NASA launched two, 6U CubeSats to Mars, to serve as communication-relays in support of NASA’s InSight Mars lander mission. These CubeSats featured deployable solar panels, X-band communications, a deployable reflectarray antenna, and a cold-gas micro-propulsion system. Additionally, each CubeSats' attitude-control system combined a star tracker, Sun sensors, gyroscopes, and three-axis reaction wheels for monitoring and adjusting orientation.
The total cost of NASA’s Mars Cube One mission was $18 million.
Hopefully, our return to HEO will be a fraction of that cost.
73,
Robert Bankston, KE4AL President Radio Amateur Satellite Corporation (AMSAT)
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at
https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions
expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at
https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Acceptable Use and Privacy Policies available at https://www.amsat.org/about-amsat/
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
participants (2)
-
Daniel Schultz -
Jean Marc Momple