Hi George,

Yes, the FUNcube dongle makes a great sat receiver with many of the programs that are out there. There is little problem getting the FCD to work as a great sat receiver. The emphasis in most SDR programs that I have tried is <Receiving> (that is not a big surprise). Support for transmit offset for linear sats and transmit doppler correction are the missing pieces in everything I have looked at.

Rather that re-invent the wheel it seems to make sense to build off the strength of existing programs like SatPC32 and have the SDR and your transmitter sit out there under CAT control of SatPC32 or a similar program.

I have had the best luck with spur and image reduction with SDR-Radio (there is an automatic mode which is great for an old geezer like me). It does have a ton of useless 'feature bloat' items like a calendar and picture viewer but it does support network based SDR's and is suppose to tie in with HRD.

If people are already using SatPC32 or something similar it would be a relatively painless upgrade path to the FUNcube dongle if they could build on what they know and use rather than starting over. The FCD or similar device might be a low cost upgrade path to full duplex operation.

The future of the hobby is FM sats so this is all probably irrelevant but it is still fun and interesting.

tnx & 73 W9KE Tom

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 2:51 PM, George Henry ka3hsw@att.net wrote:

Take a look at SatControl_FCD. I haven't tried it with SDR-Radio, but with WR-Plus and the Ext_IO DLL, it makes the FunCube Dongle into a very nice satellite receiver.

George, KA3HSW

----- Original Message ----

...

From: Thomas Doyle tomdoyle1948@gmail.com To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Sent: Mon, August 27, 2012 1:46:15 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] FUNcube + SatPC32 + SDR-Radio

The FUNcube and SDR-Radio work great together. Transmit control for satellite use in SDR-Radio is very limited (non-existent from what I have been able to find). I would like the FUNcube / SDR-Radio combination to act like a simple receiver under cat control from SatPC32 or similar program. I would like to talk with anyone who has actual experience with this.

tnx & 73 W9KE

Clayton,

The activity level on the linear sats is very low and does not seem to be getting any better. Not sure why. Perhaps it is cost or complexity or problems putting up outside antennas. It is rather sad working linear sat passes with no one else on them. At least I can hear my own downlink signal and the beacon :-)

Unfortunately this sums it up.

AMSAT Board of Directors Meeting Minutes

"Satellite Operations Report by Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA

" ... The other FM satellites, AO-27 and SO-50, continue to be heavily used. FO-29 when operative, and VO-52 work well, but have very little use."

Hope to see you on FO-29.

73 W9KE Tom Doyle

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Clayton Coleman W5PFG kayakfishtx@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Tom,

I would like to understand the reason for your comment about the future being limited to FM satellites. It seems FUNcube, FOX-2 and Phase 3E projects would prove otherwise.

73 Clayton W5PFG

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Doyle tomdoyle1948@gmail.com wrote:

...

The future of the hobby is FM sats so this is all probably irrelevant but it is still fun and interesting.

tnx & 73 W9KE Tom

Hi Ted,

Appreciate your concern. However, SatPC32 is written and maintained by Erich without ANY compensation by us. He donated the program and any updates to AMSAT for them to sell. It's a one man personal hobby and dedication and has served many of us very well. Sure would be nice to have a super GUI etc. On the other hand once you get to learn the ins and outs it serves the community very well.

Stefan, VE4NSA

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Ted k7trkradio@charter.net wrote:

Tom, one thing that would help is dragging SatPC32 into the 21st Century. I find it almost unusable. Too bad the sat program in HRD has problems tracking the linears...

73, Ted, K7TRK

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Doyle Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 4:09 PM To: Clayton Coleman W5PFG Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FUNcube + SatPC32 + SDR-Radio

Clayton,

The activity level on the linear sats is very low and does not seem to be getting any better. Not sure why. Perhaps it is cost or complexity or problems putting up outside antennas. It is rather sad working linear sat passes with no one else on them. At least I can hear my own downlink signal and the beacon :-)

Unfortunately this sums it up.

AMSAT Board of Directors Meeting Minutes

"Satellite Operations Report by Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA

" ... The other FM satellites, AO-27 and SO-50, continue to be heavily used. FO-29 when operative, and VO-52 work well, but have very little use."

Hope to see you on FO-29.

73 W9KE Tom Doyle

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Clayton Coleman W5PFG kayakfishtx@gmail.com wrote:

...

Hello Tom,

I would like to understand the reason for your comment about the future being limited to FM satellites. It seems FUNcube, FOX-2 and Phase 3E projects would prove otherwise.

73 Clayton W5PFG

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Doyle tomdoyle1948@gmail.com

wrote:

...

...

The future of the hobby is FM sats so this is all probably irrelevant but it is still fun and interesting.

tnx & 73 W9KE Tom

--

Sent from my computer.

tom ... _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

---

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Ted,

I am interested in why you consider SATPC32 almost unusable? It does require a small amount of typing instead of clicking, but it just works, and works perfectly. That is my criteria for usability. HRD is beautiful, and I use it exclusively for HF, but gave up on it as a satellite program because so many features, such as support for the FT-847, were broken and did not get fixed.

73s,

Alan WA4SCA

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Ted Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 6:29 PM To: 'Thomas Doyle'; 'Clayton Coleman W5PFG' Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FUNcube + SatPC32 + SDR-Radio

Tom, one thing that would help is dragging SatPC32 into the 21st Century. I find it almost unusable. Too bad the sat program in HRD has problems tracking the linears...

73, Ted, K7TRK

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Doyle Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 4:09 PM To: Clayton Coleman W5PFG Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FUNcube + SatPC32 + SDR-Radio

Clayton,

The activity level on the linear sats is very low and does not seem to be getting any better. Not sure why. Perhaps it is cost or complexity or problems putting up outside antennas. It is rather sad working linear sat passes with no one else on them. At least I can hear my own downlink signal and the beacon :-)

Unfortunately this sums it up.

AMSAT Board of Directors Meeting Minutes

"Satellite Operations Report by Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA

" ... The other FM satellites, AO-27 and SO-50, continue to be heavily used. FO-29 when operative, and VO-52 work well, but have very little use."

Hope to see you on FO-29.

73 W9KE Tom Doyle

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Clayton Coleman W5PFG kayakfishtx@gmail.com wrote:

Hello Tom,

I would like to understand the reason for your comment about the future being limited to FM satellites. It seems FUNcube, FOX-2 and Phase 3E projects would prove otherwise.

73 Clayton W5PFG

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Doyle tomdoyle1948@gmail.com

wrote:

...

The future of the hobby is FM sats so this is all probably irrelevant but it is still fun and interesting.

tnx & 73 W9KE Tom

I'm jumping on this bandwagon, too! :)

Please tell me another program (for Windows) that does the following:

1) Rotor control 2) CAT control with Doppler correction (1 or 2 radios at the same time) 3) Automated operations, with specified priorities of tracking (meaning, it automatically switches between satellites; priorities can be set for the case when two birds are in view at the same time) 4) Tones can be set for each bird (or multiple, and then toggled/selected) 5) multiple configurations can be changed with a click (different rotor, different radio, different satellites--whatever you want). 6) split mode for ISS operations 7) all proceeds go to AMSAT :) 8) and the list goes on and on...

Really, if the main issue is graphics--functionality wins hands down in my book. Graphics aren't spectacular, but they are sufficient.

About the only thing I've wanted to do, but SatPC32 doesn't, is eclipse predictions; so I use PREDICT or ILLUM.

(And I've been doing automated operations since the days of PG and PB batch files ;) )

I've tried Gpredict, but can't get high numbered comports to work.

73!

Mark N8MH

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:30 AM, kb2m@comcast.net wrote:

I'm also curious about what you find un-usable in SatPC32.

73 Jeff kb2m

----- Original Message ----- From: Alan P. Biddle APBIDDLE@UNITED.NET To: 'Ted' k7trkradio@charter.net Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Sent: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 11:32:42 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FUNcube + SatPC32 + SDR-Radio

Ted,

I am interested in why you consider SATPC32 almost unusable? It does require a small amount of typing instead of clicking, but it just works, and works perfectly. That is my criteria for usability. HRD is beautiful, and I use it exclusively for HF, but gave up on it as a satellite program because so many features, such as support for the FT-847, were broken and did not get fixed.

73s,

Alan WA4SCA

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Ted Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 6:29 PM To: 'Thomas Doyle'; 'Clayton Coleman W5PFG' Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FUNcube + SatPC32 + SDR-Radio

Tom, one thing that would help is dragging SatPC32 into the 21st Century. I find it almost unusable. Too bad the sat program in HRD has problems tracking the linears...

73, Ted, K7TRK

-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Doyle Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 4:09 PM To: Clayton Coleman W5PFG Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: FUNcube + SatPC32 + SDR-Radio

Clayton,

The activity level on the linear sats is very low and does not seem to be getting any better. Not sure why. Perhaps it is cost or complexity or problems putting up outside antennas. It is rather sad working linear sat passes with no one else on them. At least I can hear my own downlink signal and the beacon :-)

Unfortunately this sums it up.

AMSAT Board of Directors Meeting Minutes

"Satellite Operations Report by Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA

" ... The other FM satellites, AO-27 and SO-50, continue to be heavily used. FO-29 when operative, and VO-52 work well, but have very little use."

Hope to see you on FO-29.

73 W9KE Tom Doyle

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Clayton Coleman W5PFG wrote:

...

Hello Tom,

I would like to understand the reason for your comment about the future being limited to FM satellites. It seems FUNcube, FOX-2 and Phase 3E projects would prove otherwise.

73 Clayton W5PFG

On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 4:18 PM, Thomas Doyle

wrote:

...

...

The future of the hobby is FM sats so this is all probably irrelevant but it is still fun and interesting.

tnx & 73 W9KE Tom

--

Sent from my computer.

tom ... _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

---

Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

---

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I believe that, "if you build it they will come". From the movie. Right now we're playing "small ball". If there were a HEO on the horizon there would be an incredible scramble for whatever it takes. I recall the initial days of AO-40 (sobsob). We became S band experts almost overnight! I still have my "flame thrower" antennas in mothballs. One interesting "tweek" would be to throw out a "Suitsat" type satellite every time they have a crew change. LIke a L/S LEO for few months to break up the garden variety. Maybe a MEO like RS-15. Back to my corner now. I am still rebuilding ALL my damn antennas, like rebuilding a NASA facility with the xyl in charge. I'll be on soon. 73 Bob W7LRD

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob DeVarney W1ICW" we1u@myfairpoint.net Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 5:00:45 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] satellite activity and future sats...

I am afraid you're right, Tom, and it pains me to admit it. I am not sure why activity has dropped off.. but I can say in my own case I lost interest in satellite operating after AO-40 died and have gone on to other things ( EME ) to use the existing equipment I had.

From northern Vermont I can work pretty much all the active satellite

ops on the FM birds ( within my potential mutual footprint at least ) in a weekend's worth of passes, so there was little incentive for me to continue. I _have_ gotten back into sat operating recently, if only to work the cobwebs out of my station.

I wonder how many satellite operators still have AO-10 or AO-13-class stations any more. I get the impression that many aspire to have a Yaesu FT-847, Icom 910, or TS-2000 and an Arrow antenna. If that much. I hope I am wrong.

We as a community need to revitalize things.. the future does NOT lie with more Cubesats.. or if it does, then I want no part of it. We need to restore the legacy and primacy of AMSAT in space. I think if we could get another LEO bird in the air we would see activity increase dramatically.

I've been an AMSAT member since 1980, albeit on and off, and been on the birds since 1987 give or take. Some of my most fun moments were working the Russian RS birds, believe it or not. I was also an AMSAT Area Coordinator for some years. I would love to participate in a dialogue of how to get folks interested in satellite operating again, and/or representing AMSAT at the local hamfests. But it might just echo the general lack of interest in ham radio in general that I have observed.

Guess I need to make a point of getting back on FO-29 and VO-52 more often...

73 de W1ICW

On 8/27/2012 7:09 PM, Thomas Doyle wrote:

Clayton,

The activity level on the linear sats is very low and does not seem to be getting any better. Not sure why. Perhaps it is cost or complexity or problems putting up outside antennas. It is rather sad working linear sat passes with no one else on them. At least I can hear my own downlink signal and the beacon :-)

Unfortunately this sums it up.

AMSAT Board of Directors Meeting Minutes

"Satellite Operations Report by Drew Glasbrenner, KO4MA

" ... The other FM satellites, AO-27 and SO-50, continue to be heavily used. FO-29 when operative, and VO-52 work well, but have very little use."

Hope to see you on FO-29.

73 W9KE Tom Doyle

_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb

Despite my callsign, I am a relatively new ham....and I am very, very new to the birds. I'm also new to the reflector, so please forgive any naïvete I exhibit.

I wonder if what you're seeing is a generational shift, or at least a shift in the direction by which new hams are finding their way into the hobby (and the skills and interests they bring to the table), because there are plenty of new hams out there.

Many of the new hams I've run into have either gotten involved in the hobby for emcomm purposes, or at least found emcomm early on their path (the latter is true for me). Some of them expand on from emcomm as they are introduced to other aspects of the hobby. I fell into satellite work by starting out playing with APRS and Winlink-over-packet. Then I learned about the ISS digipeater...and I realized that the challenge of trying to complete a contact during an 8-minute pass is kind of fun, and didn't require any equipment that I didn't already have. Then at Field Day, I got to see a demonstration of working AO-27. That looked like fun, so I got an Elk, plugged it into my spare HT, and a few minutes later heard an XE station calling as SO-50 rose above the horizon. That was cool, even if the neighbors think I looked nuts standing in the driveway, juggling an antenna, mic, and voice recorder, with an HT over-filling a shirt pocket.

I suspect that a sizeable proportion of the new ham population would be considered "appliance operators", or at least they assemble and operate their stations with more of a hacker's mentality, rather than following the classic homebrew path. Personally, my fabrication skills suck, but I love finding new ways to use/abuse computers and equipment that I find. Building a tape-measure beam is certainly within my skillset, but building a complete setup of satellite antennas, with az/el rotor...it wouldn't be impossible for me, but I'd need a really strong incentive to do so (and even then, I'd probably keep an eye out, looking to see if I could buy, rather than build). When I look through what I'd need to do to be able to move beyond AO-27, SO-50, and the ISS...it seems like a lot of work (or expense), without too many opportunities to enjoy the effort. I'll probably do it someday, assuming the satellites are still operational, but there are plenty of items that are on my "to try" list that have a better ratio of (probable fun):(erg of effort or dollar of expense).

Also, I trust you're aware of what transceivers are on the market. While shack-in-the-boxes are not uncommon, there are only a couple of rigs being sold new that look really good for non-FM satellite work, neither of which really mesh well into the other-interests/budget decision-making process. I dislike the TS-2000 for various reasons, and the IC-9100 is a lot of money for the limited additional utility I'd get out of it. My starter rig was an IC-7000, which does have VHF and UHF sideband, but it's full-duplex machine, and working uplink-and-downlink doppler adjustments on it is a pain. I think other entry-level VHF/UHF sideband capable rigs are similarly challenged. I occasionally look around to see what's available used....but here too the "how much will I have to spend, and what additional fun will I get out of it" factor comes into play. I'm sure the major manufacturers (or even some not-so-major manufacturers) would put new gear on the market if there were demand...but where's the demand?

Add in the other complications at my location (an inconveniently-placed hill, lots of trees, an XYL who has opinions about aesthetics), and I percieve a big hurdle to move beyond the FM birds.

So; why do I mention all this?

First, count me among the "they" in "build it and they will come". None of my station challenges are insurmountable; I just haven't had enough motivation to tackle those challenges. Get a few more satellites up and have activity on them, or put up something in a molniya orbit, and my motivation level will increase significantly. I suspect other potentially interested folks have similar views.

Second, consider the learning curve some of us new guys face, especially those of us who (for better or worse) don't have the homebrew skills that were more common in the past. There's plenty of simple, accessible information available for getting initiated into working the FM birds, but from the outside graduating to other satellite work seems daunting. Or, when building "it", consider what equipment is commonly available these days for "them" to come with. Perhaps this, in addition to the economics, is influencing the direction being set for future birds.

Third, has someone considered putting together (as an example) a "VO-52 for dummies" set of videos for online consumption; something that would show the assembly of a minimally-suitable station, and working the satellite? I'd love to be proven wrong about how much I'd need to do to be able to work the linear birds. I plan on continuing to dabble even without such hand-holding, but I wouldn't object to having that wonderful "A-ha! I can do this!" moment accelerated.

--- On Tue, 28/8/12, Thomas Doyle tomdoyle1948@gmail.com wrote:

The activity level on the linear sats is very low and does not seem to be getting any better. Not sure why.

Possibly a couple of factors

- In 2003 the Morse requirement for HF operating was dropped in the UK and elsewhere (USA 2007). Until then the majority of radio amateurs in many countries had to operate on VHF or UHF only. With the removal of the code test they moved to HF as have all new amateurs since that time, with occasional usage of VHF/UHF FM for local chats.

- Limited range of some Linear Transponder Satellites. Orbits below 1000 km don't allow for DX working and have limited pass times and higher Doppler shift. When OSCAR-8 was launched into a 900 km orbit it was no-where near as popular as OSCAR-7/6.

The orbit is the key. Fold-out solar panels, such as that used on NEE-01 Pegasus, mean a CubeSat can support a linear transponder running 2 or 3 watts but currently affordable orbits are only in the 500-800 km range. We need to develop the means to boost the orbit of a CubeSat up to say the 2000 km used by RS-15.

73 Trevor M5AKA