Greetings to all. I am looking for owners and potential owners of the Icom 910H or Kenwood TS-2000.
Opinions and thoughts of each radio appreciated.
73 Norman.
Hi Norman,
This is a topic that surfaces every so often and is not an easy one to answer.
So my two penneth worth is this!
If you are only interested in VHF and above, Satellites and terrestrial work - the 910 every time.
If you want a shack in a box that can do (primarily) HF, then the TS wins the day!
The reason I say "primarily" is that the TS exhibits a "birdie" right in the downlink frequency for SO-50 which renders use of that bird more or less impossible on that radio.
Its like trying to compare apples with oranges.
For sat work (for me) the 910.
For HF work, the Icom 756 Pro series. :-D
Others will give you different answers of course but the main factor for me if I was buying a radio now would be the SO-50 "birdie" issue. It may only affect one bird but there are not that many left up there and no plans to get any more up!
73
It may only affect one bird but there are not that many left up there and no plans to get any more up!
Whoa there hoss! :-) That's a little misleading. There are at least three microsat sized satellites completed or nearing completion with FM repeaters and/or transponders on them. Kiwisat, CAS-1, and SumbandilaSat. Sumbandila is set to launch in August after a several year delay. I think CAS-1 is ready to go this year as well if I recall correctly. I have no doubt Kiwisat will fly either, in fact I've personally donated directly to AMSAT-ZL to help make that happen.
Historically, there have been times when we've had much less to choose from in orbit as well. It's not all doom and gloom.
I'm going to be updating the Future Projects page on the AMSAT website over the next few weeks while on vacation. We'll get some newer information and current links up on these new sats then. Projects can send updated info directly to me at ko4ma@amsat.org .
73, Drew KO4MA
Drew just e-mailed me about my comment: / "It may only affect one bird but there are not that many left up there and no plans to get any more up! "/
and that that might be misleading!
I am happy to correct my statement by saying that what I was referring to was the easy sats, the FM voice, 2m up 70cm down or 70cm up 2m down, that everyone cuts their teeth on!
Drew has pointed out that Sumbandilla is V/U FM, CAS is V/U FM and transponder both, and Kiwisat is U/V FM and transponder.
According to the AMSAT website, Sumbandilla and Kiwisat are both awaiting a launch date and I have just heard that the other one is not up there either but all are slated for this year.
On the basis that they actually make it to orbit (and that's a big *"if"* of course, no sure thing in the launch business!), there will be AO-51, SO-50, AO-27, AO-7, ISS, and the three to come. Throw in FO-29 and VO-52 (not strictly FM easy sats being as they are SSB birds) and we might have 10 usable voice birds.
Take out the two "birdie" issue satellites from the *current* 7 usable easy sats and the TS can not work nearly 30% of the available easy sats.
Factor in that AO-7 is getting old, ISS is rarely in cross band mode, and that brings the figures down to 5 working birds, three (or 60%) of which the TS *can* work.
If Kenwood have fixed the problem (and I haven't heard that they have or how they could retrospectively) and you want to get into serious satellite work, don't hamper yourself with a radio that will not do the job.
I am sure someone will say that my math is wrong but you get the point.
(Standing by with helmet and flak jacket on :-D )
I cut my teeth on Oscar 6 and 7, 2M UP, 10M DOWN, SSB.
David - KG4ZLB wrote: easy sats, the FM voice, 2m up 70cm down or 70cm up 2m down,
that everyone cuts their teeth on!
you have old teeth :-D
Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
I cut my teeth on Oscar 6 and 7, 2M UP, 10M DOWN, SSB.
David - KG4ZLB wrote: easy sats, the FM voice, 2m up 70cm down or 70cm up 2m down,
SSB for me too, F0-29 & V0-52.
Can't raise any consistent enthusiasm for FM birds with the exception of our friends up in the ISS.
I can have the same abuse much more easily on the local FM repeater. :-)
So the TS2000 has a birdie, OK, but for those that don't want all their eggs in one basket it is very good and it doesn't need another mortgage spent on a Hi-Stab LO to stop it roaming around on its own. Well at 1296MHz anyway!
Retires to bomb shelter!
David G8OQW
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF Sent: 16 July 2009 18:51 To: kg4zlb@gmail.com Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
I cut my teeth on Oscar 6 and 7, 2M UP, 10M DOWN, SSB.
David - KG4ZLB wrote: easy sats, the FM voice, 2m up 70cm down or 70cm up 2m down,
that everyone cuts their teeth on!
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I've had a TS2000 since 2005, and have never regretted my purchase. Sure, there is an unfortunate birdie that messes up SO50 and AO27, but so what. I resurrected an old Kenwood TM-G707A to deal with those two FM birds, and it works great. I also have an FT-857D which also does a nice job on those two birds. I would naturally expect the comments on this board to lean towards the IC-910H, and, indeed, it is a fine SATELLITE rig. But, my number one preference in operating is the HF bands, not satellite. Guess what I am saying is if VHF/UHF and satellite is your only operating preference, then the Icom might be a better rig. But, if you also like to do the HF bands with an occasional hop to the satellites, the TS2000 is pretty good. Is the TS2000 the best HF rig? Probably not, but it's the only one that offers pretty good HF operation AND reasonable satellite operation in the same box.
Jim Bob Buckeye AKA **** Jim Leder**** K8CXM since 1961 IBM retiree since 1999
There are 10 types of people in this world -- those who understand binary and those who don't.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Barber" david.barber@dbelectronics.co.uk To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Cc: kg4zlb@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
SSB for me too, F0-29 & V0-52.
Can't raise any consistent enthusiasm for FM birds with the exception of our friends up in the ISS.
I can have the same abuse much more easily on the local FM repeater. :-)
So the TS2000 has a birdie, OK, but for those that don't want all their eggs in one basket it is very good and it doesn't need another mortgage spent on a Hi-Stab LO to stop it roaming around on its own. Well at 1296MHz anyway!
Retires to bomb shelter!
David G8OQW
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF Sent: 16 July 2009 18:51 To: kg4zlb@gmail.com Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
I cut my teeth on Oscar 6 and 7, 2M UP, 10M DOWN, SSB.
David - KG4ZLB wrote: easy sats, the FM voice, 2m up 70cm down or 70cm up 2m down,
that everyone cuts their teeth on!
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Ditto K8CXM's comments. I have much less enthusiam for the FM sats than FO29, AO7 and VO52. Using SATPC, these are a piece of cake to regularly work with no crowds, big footprints and super doppler control. Also, notwithstanding the birdie, I have no difficulty working SO50 or AO27 once the doppler has moved the downlink away from the birdie. Obviously not as convenient as one would like, but still workable.
But here is also what really sells me on the 2000. I also have an interest in HF and after discovering PSK and the other digital modes (thank you Signalink USB), I now run VHF packet and have fun dig'g over ISS. The full CW break-in is superior. I also am a new 6 mtr convert. If I am not mistaken (someone will correct me), based on the info in the current AES catalog, the 910 does not cover 6 mtrs. Finally, using the Kenwood TH-D7 HT, one can operate the 2000 remotely (haven't tried SkyCommand yet, but that is next.)
FWIW to this discussion.
73s Craig N6RSX
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb NOTICE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this communication, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this communication to the intended recipient, please advise the sender by reply email and immediately delete the message and any attachments without copying or disclosing the contents. Thank you.
surprized that no one mentioned the IC 910 has birdie as well
each has it's pro's and con's for sure
N2EHG
On Jul 16, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Jim Leder wrote:
I've had a TS2000 since 2005, and have never regretted my purchase. Sure, there is an unfortunate birdie that messes up SO50 and AO27, but so what. I resurrected an old Kenwood TM-G707A to deal with those two FM birds, and it works great. I also have an FT-857D which also does a nice job on those two birds. I would naturally expect the comments on this board to lean towards the IC-910H, and, indeed, it is a fine SATELLITE rig. But, my number one preference in operating is the HF bands, not satellite. Guess what I am saying is if VHF/UHF and satellite is your only operating preference, then the Icom might be a better rig. But, if you also like to do the HF bands with an occasional hop to the satellites, the TS2000 is pretty good. Is the TS2000 the best HF rig? Probably not, but it's the only one that offers pretty good HF operation AND reasonable satellite operation in the same box.
Jim Bob Buckeye AKA**** Jim Leder**** K8CXM since 1961 IBM retiree since 1999
There are 10 types of people in this world -- those who understand binary and those who don't.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Barber" david.barber@dbelectronics.co.uk To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Cc: kg4zlb@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
SSB for me too, F0-29 & V0-52.
Can't raise any consistent enthusiasm for FM birds with the exception of our friends up in the ISS.
I can have the same abuse much more easily on the local FM repeater. :-)
So the TS2000 has a birdie, OK, but for those that don't want all their eggs in one basket it is very good and it doesn't need another mortgage spent on a Hi-Stab LO to stop it roaming around on its own. Well at 1296MHz anyway!
Retires to bomb shelter!
David G8OQW
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb- bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF Sent: 16 July 2009 18:51 To: kg4zlb@gmail.com Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
I cut my teeth on Oscar 6 and 7, 2M UP, 10M DOWN, SSB.
David - KG4ZLB wrote: easy sats, the FM voice, 2m up 70cm down or 70cm up 2m down,
that everyone cuts their teeth on!
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Myles Landstein myles.landstein@gmail.com please note my new email address dti will soon be eliminated , gmail is my new home update your dir
I wasn't aware of any birdies(in the sat or ssb frequencies) in the IC-910. Where does the 910 have the birdie?
73 Jeff kb2m
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of myles landstein Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:23 AM To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
surprized that no one mentioned the IC 910 has birdie as well
N2EHG
honestly don't recall, I bought my ts2000x about 3yrs ago now. At that time I wrestled between the TS and the IC910h
At that time I just googled both, saw a few comments regarding a birdie for each and ended up w/the TS2000x because I figured HF would be a added bonus along w/sky command as I live near a few schools and wanted to do some demo's
Is the IC910 'birdie free' , with respect to satellites? Perhaps I was incorrect
If so maybe it's time to try one :)
thanks
On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:38 AM, Jeff KB2M wrote:
I wasn't aware of any birdies(in the sat or ssb frequencies) in the IC-910. Where does the 910 have the birdie?
73 Jeff kb2m
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of myles landstein Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 7:23 AM To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
surprized that no one mentioned the IC 910 has birdie as well
N2EHG
Myles Landstein myles.landstein@gmail.com please note my new email address dti will soon be eliminated , gmail is my new home update your dir
I don't think the 910 or the 847 has any birdies in the sat frequencies. It anyone finds any I would like to know. It is a shame about the 2000, it is a much better HF TXR then the 847, but the birdie at 145800 is the satellite use show stopper. I have all three here in the shack, and a blackbox 2000 as my HF mobile. The only one I purchased new was the 847 in 1998 or so. The 910, and 2000's were picked up used at a very good price, the good deals are there if your patient. I would recommend a used 847 over the 2000. The money saved over a new TS-2000 purchase can be used to buy a better HF performing rig then the 2000. My 2 cents.
73 Jeff kb2m
From: myles landstein [mailto:myles.landstein@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 8:22 AM To: Jeff KB2M Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
honestly don't recall, I bought my ts2000x about 3yrs ago now. At that time I wrestled between the TS and the IC910h
At that time I just googled both, saw a few comments regarding a birdie for each and ended up w/the TS2000x because I figured HF would be a added bonus along w/sky command as I live near a few schools and wanted to do some demo's
Is the IC910 'birdie free' , with respect to satellites? Perhaps I was incorrect
If so maybe it's time to try one :)
thanks
On Jul 17, 2009, at 7:38 AM, Jeff KB2M wrote:
I wasn't aware of any birdies(in the sat or ssb frequencies) in the IC-910. Where does the 910 have the birdie?
73 Jeff kb2m
Are you mistaken? I don't think the TS2000 has a birdie at 145.800MHz.
It does have one at 436.800MHz.
I would agree with your other comments.
David G8OQW
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Jeff KB2M Sent: 17 July 2009 14:28 To: 'myles landstein' Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
I don't think the 910 or the 847 has any birdies in the sat frequencies. It anyone finds any I would like to know. It is a shame about the 2000, it is a much better HF TXR then the 847, but the birdie at 145800 is the satellite use show stopper. I have all three here in the shack, and a blackbox 2000 as my HF mobile. The only one I purchased new was the 847 in 1998 or so. The 910, and 2000's were picked up used at a very good price, the good deals are there if your patient. I would recommend a used 847 over the 2000. The money saved over a new TS-2000 purchase can be used to buy a better HF performing rig then the 2000. My 2 cents.
73 Jeff kb2m
Of course David, you are correct. The birdie is at 436.800. That will teach me to not proof read before hitting the enter key. Thanks for the correction...
73 Jeff kb2m
-----Original Message----- From: David Barber [mailto:david.barber@dbelectronics.co.uk] Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 9:39 AM To: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Cc: 'Jeff KB2M' Subject: RE: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
Are you mistaken? I don't think the TS2000 has a birdie at 145.800MHz.
It does have one at 436.800MHz.
I would agree with your other comments.
David G8OQW
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Jeff KB2M Sent: 17 July 2009 14:28 To: 'myles landstein' Cc: AMSAT-BB@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: IF you had a choice...
I don't think the 910 or the 847 has any birdies in the sat frequencies. It anyone finds any I would like to know. It is a shame about the 2000, it is a much better HF TXR then the 847, but the birdie at 145800 is the satellite use show stopper. I have all three here in the shack, and a blackbox 2000 as my HF mobile. The only one I purchased new was the 847 in 1998 or so. The 910, and 2000's were picked up used at a very good price, the good deals are there if your patient. I would recommend a used 847 over the 2000. The money saved over a new TS-2000 purchase can be used to buy a better HF performing rig then the 2000. My 2 cents.
73 Jeff kb2m
At 03:50 AM 7/17/2009, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF wrote:
I cut my teeth on Oscar 6 and 7, 2M UP, 10M DOWN, SSB.
For me, it was RS-10, where I had my first satellite contact in 1991. :) Again, 2m up, 10m down SSB. My first FM contact was much later, in 1999 on SO-35. I did try RS-12/13, but it didn't seem to be as potent as RS-10 was. Was using less effective antennas on RS-10 than later on RS-12/13.
Mode A birds are another good beginner's satellite, because a lot of people have HF and 2m SSB radios, and Doppler is not too severe (easily handled by manual tuning of the uplink).
73 de VK3JED / VK3IRL http://vkradio.com
Thanks to all for the great comments...
73, Norman.
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 11:58 AM, Norman W Osborne ve3cje@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings to all. I am looking for owners and potential owners of the Icom 910H or Kenwood TS-2000.
Opinions and thoughts of each radio appreciated.
73 Norman.
participants (10)
-
Andrew Glasbrenner -
D. Craig Fox -
David - KG4ZLB -
David Barber -
Jeff KB2M -
Jim Leder -
myles landstein -
Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF -
Norman W Osborne -
Tony Langdon