On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 06:07:47 +0200 "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:

Why to vaste time with the FM satellites for very small on a single channel to exchange only call letters and locators at most into a terrific QRM ?

Because everyone has the gear to work FM satellites.

Show me an all-mode HT that retails for the same sort of price and is the same sort of size as an FM HT and I might be interested. Otherwise, to get UHF and VHF SSB I'm stuck with an inconveniently large radio which is only really useful for the twenty minutes a day that a satellite is overhead.

Not to mention the difficulty involved in tuning the radio and aiming the antenna. Doesn't the Doppler shift mean you need to constantly retune? How do you manage to do that, key the mike and point the aerial, *and* have enough brainpower left to make a contact?

Gordon MM0YEQ

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon JC Pearce" gordonjcp@gjcp.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 8:45 AM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Active FM Sats

On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 06:07:47 +0200 "i8cvs" domenico.i8cvs@tin.it wrote:

...

Why to vaste time with the FM satellites for very small on a single channel to exchange only call letters and locators at most into a terrific QRM ?

Because everyone has the gear to work FM satellites.

Gordon MM0YEQ _______________________________________________

Hi Gordon, MM0YEQ

Everyone actually has a gear to work FM satellites because AMSAT in the last few years has built a lot of FM satellites only to encurage the japanese industry to produce FM rigs.

Compare the early years 1970 to 1980 when OSCAR-6, OSCAR,7 and OSCAR-8 were alive and well and you will realize that no one owned a FM rig for satellite use but only homebrewed CW and SSB rigs and that epoch time was a real satellite epoch time.

73" de

i8CVS Domenico

Belcom used to make (and might still make) all mode HTs that cover a wide variety of bands. Santec imported one as the LS202 in the 80s, it was an all mode 2 meter HT. I found one at a hamfest with 2 new battery packs a couple of years ago for $80! AEA imported the 10 meter version (and the 6m version but that doesn't help with the satellites) back in the 80s, calling it the "DX Handy". Around 2000 Eagle made the Eagle 454 Spitfire which was a 10 meter all mode HT (mainly aimed at the CB and Freeband crowd), and another company has recently started marketing a 10 meter all mode HT again. Belcom also made a 70cm all mode HT.

So, there are rigs out there in HT format that will work on the linear satellites, now the job is to find them!

I have been waiting to comment on early threads on this post as well. While the linear satellites do hold more possibilities, they are more expensive to get on, and unfortunately in the States, there just isnt' that much activity on VO52 which is unfortunate since it is a such a great satellite. The FM satellites are just cheaper to get started on.

For example: my FM satellite station consists of

Kenwood TM-251A bought used for $99 Arrow Antennas dualband J Pole bought new for $40 50 foot run of 9913 knock off coax bought new for $38 So, for less than $200 I have a good FM setup. I already had the power supply, but if you need to buy a new one, figure $75 or so.

I can do one linear sat right now-AO7 in Mode A-using my Icom 706 original. I bought the rig for $260, got a Mirage B108 amp for $40, and a 2M9SSB for $40 (plus the gas and tolls to pick it up). The light duty rotor was already up but it was about $80 new. The 9913 copy coax was $38. For the 10 meter downlink I already had a dipole up, but that would cost $30 or so to build-including coax. Overall, I got very good prices on this setup, it would usually cost more.

I give both examples just to show the difference in setup costs. With my Icom HF/VHF setup I cannot work Mode B on the satellites, as I don't have a UHF transmitter (as of yet).

73s John AA5JG

On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 10:43 AM, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) < amsat-bb@wd9ewk.net> wrote:

Hi!

...

Show me an all-mode HT that retails for the same sort of price and is the same sort of size as an FM HT and I might be interested. Otherwise, to get UHF and VHF SSB I'm stuck with an inconveniently large radio which is only really useful for the twenty minutes a day that a satellite is overhead.

An all-mode HT.... doesn't exist at this time. Probably the closest you get in an HT would be a TH-F6/TH-F7 with its all-mode receiver, but still an FM transmitter. You could attempt transmitting CW by keying that transmitter, but it's not ideal with the 5 kHz tuning steps at FM on that radio (SSB tuning steps on a TH-F6/TH-F7 can go as small as 33 Hz) and no provision for computer control. Otherwise, an FT-817 gets close to the HT size, is an all-mode transceiver at HF and 6m as well as 2m and 70cm, and would qualify as a radio that can be used more than "twenty minutes a day that a satellite is overhead." It does cost more than an FM HT, but FT-817s should be available on the secondhand market as they have been in production for a decade. Even two FT-817s as a portable all-mode full-duplex satellite station are not what I - or many - would consider "inconveniently large". If you prefer computer control, the 817s have Yaesu's CAT port to allow for that.

...

Not to mention the difficulty involved in tuning the radio and aiming the antenna. Doesn't the Doppler shift mean you need to constantly retune? How do you manage to do that, key the mike and point the aerial, *and* have enough brainpower left to make a contact?

You are having to make minor adjustments to your frequency - or frequencies - when working SSB or CW via satellite. If you follow the so-called One True Rule, you're making the adjustments to one of the two frequencies (usually the higher of the two frequencies). Everyone had to work SSB/CW via satellite this way in the past, before the advent of computer-controlled stations, and it is still an option today even if some (many?) discourage it.

If you've worked FM satellites, you already know about the "key the mike and point the aerial" part. Then just focus on the QSO in progress. Don't try to remember everyone you worked - leave that on an audio recorder, or recorder app for a mobile phone or iPod type of device or laptop/netbook, and play it back later to update your log.

Pedro EB4DKA has posted a lot of useful information for working SSB via satellite. I read the writeups and watched the videos as I started out on the SSB birds. I don't operate using a mobile setup like Pedro does, but with one directional antenna (an Elk 2m/70cm log periodic) through a diplexer to my two-radio setup. I've uploaded some videos working those satellites at:

http://www.youtube.com/va7ewk

I used both of my FT-817NDs on the SSB passes shown in these videos, but on occasion swap out the 817 I use as the receiver and put my TH-F6A in its place.

73!

Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/

---

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Don't forget the old FT-290, 490 and 690 series from Yaesu and the IC202 and 70cM versions from Icom. Great portables of their time.

On 05-Jul-11 17:40, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:

All you need now is something that will transmit and receive in all modes at 70cm. Maybe an old FT-817, or IC-706Mk2/Mk2G, would be a good fit for your station. You're not that far away from working all the SSB/CW birds, and you seem to have a way of finding all sorts of radios (seeing your for-sale posts on different lists and forums over the years). As for the numbers of operators on VO-52 and the other SSB/CW satellites, that number is slowly growing. It may never match the numbers working FM simply due to the cost and availability of FM gear, but people are out there working those birds. Maybe we'll hook up on VO-52 sometime, or I will get my mode A situation worked out and join you on AO-7 that way. :-)

Other then very very easy to use what is the BIG deal about the FM sats? I must be missing something...

Its just the same whining and griping as we are hearing today on July 5th about the delays on the Subway leaving the Washington DC 4th of July Fireworks. Only about 5 million people come down to the mall all day long. Then at 9:37 PM when the last firework finale ends, all 5 million stampede to the closest subway station and then fight and complain about everyone else jamming the subway.

Guess what. Its gonna happen, everytime. Everyone thinks they are going to beat the crowd, or get there first. And its all those other people in -their- way.

Same goes for 2600 FD stations all trying to use a single FM channel during an 8 minute pass...

By the way, I thought I had it all figured out. We'd go to the first station SOUTH of the mall to catch the NORTH bound train. Everyone going North we assumed would go to the first station north (where they came in from)... It was a brilliant plan....

Except that we could not even get within a block of the station because of all the SOUTHBOUND people jamming entrance to the entire station for a half a block. SO even though the north bound trains were leaving there quite empty, we could not get to them. Silly me. I should have realized that.

Working the FM satellites is easy and fun. Just do it when no one else is doing it.

It's like the Stock Market. Its EASY... just buy low and sell high. Works every time.

Bob, WB4APR

On Tue, 5 Jul 2011 16:03:51 -0400 "Bob Bruninga" bruninga@usna.edu wrote:

Guess what. Its gonna happen, everytime. Everyone thinks they are going to beat the crowd, or get there first. And its all those other people in -their- way.

We don't do the 4th of July fireworks, but then you don't do the 11th of November fireworks. It doesn't get dark until midnight here in July anyway.

Some of us are in the position of being able to schedule a little PMI on a high site for 7:30pm on November 5th. Just a thought, guys...

Gordon MM0YEQ

John,

What do I know, but the FM satellites in addition to providing grids and awards have evolved into another type of social media, after making many contacts and a few friends on the FM satellites, I continue to visit,in spite of the crowds, to say a quick hello to Rick, Tim, Marc, Allen etc. not as often, spending more time on the Linear satellites, which we all should and can evolve to. A lot of us are interested in building our grid count, or working a station in Mexico or Brazil or someone on a grid expedition. I can fully appreciate others who cannot embrace any of this and are bored with the congestion, so they move on. But for many of us, the thrill and goose bumps we get working thru a satellite spinning in space never gets old, so we accept the situation and feel that the positives outweigh the negatives and plan for another pass.

73's Pete WB2OQQ www.massapequanyweather.com