when are TLE's too old to use?
I understand that there won't be a good answer for how old can TLE's be before they're of no use. If you were going to be offline for an extended period, roughly, for a LEO, how long would you go before they're worthless?
Ron VE8RT
Depends on what your margin for error is. In other words, define "worthless."
In general, I update keps weekly. But for most LEOs and casual ham operation, you could probably go 90 days or more and still find most birds with your Arrow and handheld within a few minutes.
For ISS or other spacecraft with the ability to adjust the orbit with thrusters, etc., you'd only be good until the next orbit boost. -- Mark D. Johns KØJM / MØGZO / ex-9H3DJ / ex-KØMDJ Brooklyn Park, MN USA EN35hd ----------------------------------------------- "Heaven goes by favor; if it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in." ---Mark Twain
On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 12:02 PM, Ron VE8RT ve8rt@yknwt.ca wrote:
I understand that there won't be a good answer for how old can TLE's be before they're of no use. If you were going to be offline for an extended period, roughly, for a LEO, how long would you go before they're worthless?
Ron VE8RT
-- Ron VE8RT ve8rt@yknwt.ca _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
For everything other than the ISS and lower, weeks. For sats in 600km and higher, probably months if you are manual tuning and pointing.
YMMV.
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Ron VE8RT Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 1:03 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] when are TLE's too old to use?
I understand that there won't be a good answer for how old can TLE's be before they're of no use. If you were going to be offline for an extended period, roughly, for a LEO, how long would you go before they're worthless?
Ron VE8RT
-- Ron VE8RT ve8rt@yknwt.ca _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hello Everyone,
By the way... How to get the TLE from the past? eg. to check something form the past for some date in the past... such as 30 Apr. 2012?
73, Armand SP3QFE
On 2018-05-12 20:34, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
For everything other than the ISS and lower, weeks. For sats in 600km and higher, probably months if you are manual tuning and pointing.
YMMV.
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Ron VE8RT Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 1:03 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] when are TLE's too old to use?
I understand that there won't be a good answer for how old can TLE's be before they're of no use. If you were going to be offline for an extended period, roughly, for a LEO, how long would you go before they're worthless?
Ron VE8RT
-- Ron VE8RT ve8rt@yknwt.ca _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 5/12/2018 2:50 PM, Armand SP3QFE wrote:
How to get the TLE from the past? eg. to check something form the past for some date in the past... such as 30 Apr. 2012?
See AMSAT's Keps mailing list archive. It has all the bulletins back to 2006.
http://amsat.org/pipermail/keps/
April 26 2012 is here:
http://www.amsat.org/pipermail/keps/2012/000654.html
de KM1P Joe
BIG TKS!
On 2018-05-12 22:13, Joe Fitzgerald wrote:
On 5/12/2018 2:50 PM, Armand SP3QFE wrote:
How to get the TLE from the past? eg. to check something form the past for some date in the past... such as 30 Apr. 2012?
See AMSAT's Keps mailing list archive. It has all the bulletins back to 2006.
http://amsat.org/pipermail/keps/
April 26 2012 is here:
http://www.amsat.org/pipermail/keps/2012/000654.html
de KM1P Joe
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I have every AMSAT TLE sent since October 8, 1993 on a backup hard drive.
Ray Hoad WA5QGD AMSAT-NA Orbital Elements Manager
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Armand SP3QFE Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 13:51 To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] when are TLE's too old to use?
Hello Everyone,
By the way... How to get the TLE from the past? eg. to check something form the past for some date in the past... such as 30 Apr. 2012?
73, Armand SP3QFE
On 2018-05-12 20:34, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
For everything other than the ISS and lower, weeks. For sats in 600km and higher, probably months if you are manual tuning and pointing.
YMMV.
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Ron VE8RT Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 1:03 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] when are TLE's too old to use?
I understand that there won't be a good answer for how old can TLE's be before they're of no use. If you were going to be offline for an extended period, roughly, for a LEO, how long would you go before they're worthless?
Ron VE8RT
-- Ron VE8RT ve8rt@yknwt.ca _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I like space-track.org for this. You have to create an account but you can give it an object ID and a date range and it will give you the keps for that date range. Very convenient.
https://www.space-track.org/auth/login
On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 8:05 PM, Ray Hoad ray.hoad@mypbmail.com wrote:
I have every AMSAT TLE sent since October 8, 1993 on a backup hard drive.
Ray Hoad WA5QGD AMSAT-NA Orbital Elements Manager
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Armand SP3QFE Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 13:51 To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] when are TLE's too old to use?
Hello Everyone,
By the way... How to get the TLE from the past? eg. to check something form the past for some date in the past... such as 30 Apr. 2012?
73, Armand SP3QFE
On 2018-05-12 20:34, Andrew Glasbrenner wrote:
For everything other than the ISS and lower, weeks. For sats in 600km and higher, probably months if you are manual tuning and pointing.
YMMV.
73, Drew KO4MA
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org On Behalf Of Ron VE8RT Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 1:03 PM To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] when are TLE's too old to use?
I understand that there won't be a good answer for how old can TLE's be before they're of no use. If you were going to be offline for an extended period, roughly, for a LEO, how long would you go before they're worthless?
Ron VE8RT
-- Ron VE8RT ve8rt@yknwt.ca _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I had several replies, the information was very helpful.
I'm in the process of putting together a station from what I have on hand, but was curious whether I could find the birds if I couldin't get online for a few weeks.
Thanks!
Ron VE8RT
On Sat, 12 May 2018 11:02:35 -0600 Ron VE8RT ve8rt@yknwt.ca wrote:
I understand that there won't be a good answer for how old can TLE's be before they're of no use. If you were going to be offline for an extended period, roughly, for a LEO, how long would you go before they're worthless?
Ron VE8RT
-- Ron VE8RT ve8rt@yknwt.ca _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Recently it was posted in libre.space community discourse[1] by cgbsat an interesting analysis about TLE of a couple of satellites and what delays you should expect in observation starting time when you use TLE 0-10 days old.
Delays vary depending on satellite, difference could be from some seconds to some minutes (in ISS case).
I'm very interested if there are similar analyses.
73, fredy
[1] https://community.libre.space/t/tle-updates-and-scheduling/1987/4
On 05/12/2018 08:02 PM, Ron VE8RT wrote:
I understand that there won't be a good answer for how old can TLE's be before they're of no use. If you were going to be offline for an extended period, roughly, for a LEO, how long would you go before they're worthless?
Ron VE8RT
participants (8)
-
Alfredos (fredy) Damkalis -
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Armand SP3QFE -
Joe Fitzgerald -
John Brier -
Mark D. Johns -
Ray Hoad -
Ron VE8RT