How to digipeat?
Hello all,
Apparently my mail about BugSat-1 raised some interest into that bird's digipeater. But that still leaves me with the following question (and I hope I don't sound too obtuse): how do you digipeat? I've tried to understand it by googling it over the past year or so, but I still don't get it much. Most tutorials explain about setting it up, but with HTs. I am running a home station only, with the rig connected to a PC. From what I understand you need to use the program UISS then.
I got as far as this: I installed UISS (under Wine) and got it connected to Direwolf. Right now I can work the Falconsat-3 BBS using PacSat Ground Station and while running that program I see the same messages that Direwolf displays also appearing in UISS. So far, so good, but then what? I press either F5, F6, or F7, but nothing happens. Yes, my rig burps out some data for a split second, but I can't find myself back on APRS.fi. So what am I doing wrong? Any parameters to adjust? Or are digipeats not stored for the next iGate to put it on the internet?
Again, I hope I don't sound too witless, but I've never really understood APRS, apart from terrestrial position reporting and even that was kind of hard with all the paths and whatnot. Hope you nice people on this list can drop some pointers. 73 de Hans
P.S. I've got some nasty local interference on 145.825 MHz and that makes receiving the ISS and other birds almost impossible. I was lucky to get two frames in from IO-86 the other day, because that was due south, with the QRM coming from the north-east. Getting a signal up shouldn't be much of a problem, though.
Hi Hans!
Like any digital mode, 1200 or 9600 packet requires several things to work together using the correct settings. This might run a little long, but I'll be glad to outline them.
But first, one helpful thing to remember is that you want to treat the uplink & downlink as completely separate affairs. Depending on the satellite, the uplink and downlink might find you using different bands, different radios, different antennas, different software... at a MINIMUM you'll be using different RF frequencies even if it's a simplex packet digipeater since the doppler compensation will be opposite for up -vs- down. (caveat - on 2m normal FM you can get by with sitting on one freq) To me it's always made sense to verify that you're 100% good to go on the downlink, then set yourself up for the uplink.
So, if anyone wants to read on, here are the things to consider.
RF: you'll need to know what the uplink & downlink RF frequencies are and if either is in the 70cm band, doppler compensation is mandatory. Here's a tip: several of the newer sats are using NARROW-FM... even if you're working on 2 meters, doppler compensation to/from a narrow-band satellite radio is making a huge difference in my experience. CAT control your radio if possible; if not, then pre-program 5 memory channels the way most people have their FM radios setup for voice satellite work.
MOD/DEMOD: your radio needs to have a connection to your computer where you run software set to decode the type of modulation in use by the satellite. On Windows, the various UZ7HO Soundmodem versions provide perhaps the easiest interface to work with. Direwolf is an option on Windows, too, and by-the-way makes for a very easy to use iGate utility running off to the side of your screen. On linux, Direwolf is the most popular option to my knowledge. On either platform, of course we have to find out from the satellite documentation what settings are required. A critical note that often prevents success on rates above 1200 baud is that beyond that speed we need more audio bandwidth than is normally available for general listening. So, whether you're using a "real" radio or an SDR, good rules of thumb are 3KHz of audio bandwidth for 1200 baud and 15KHz of audio bandwidth for the higher rates. On modern radios, that means using a connection to the radio's "DATA" port for rates above 1200. My TM-V71A, for example, also has a menu option to switch between 1200 & 9600 - very important!
USER INTERFACE: as you mentioned, the UISS software is a great tool to use as the interface when sending/receiving the packet modes. It communicates with UZ7HO Soundmodem or Direwolf to send/receive data to/from the satellite. But what to transmit? We need that info from the satellite documentation. The "TO" is most often "CQ", but read everything you can find about the satellite in question to be sure. (hint: monitor the downlink & see what others are using!) The "VIA" can be confusing because many sats will respond to more than one name. It all comes down to the documentation - historically the 1200 baud APRS sats will answer to "ARISS" which is handy... you don't have to change all your settings between satellites. FalconSat-3 is different; we use "PFS3-1" when transmitting to FS-3. "If" there actually is an active digipeater on BugSat-1, the team has instructed us to use "LU7AA" as the call sign to access that satellite. (I've tried BugSat-1 twice now but at the time of this post, have not had any success) As for the payload text to transmit, UISS helps a lot (for APRS sats) by guiding us into sending properly formatted 'TEXT', 'POSITION', and 'MESSAGE' type APRS packets. Monitoring the downlink and seeing what message types others are having success with is helpful here. Heck, everything I do on the sats is a copy-cat of the operating techniques used by the operators that you see post repeatedly here, on Twitter, QRZ.com, and elsewhere. A huge 'thank-you' to all who share how-to info!
So, aside from individual considerations that are unique to particular satellites (FS-3 is cross-band full-duplex, for example), that is an overview. If anyone has read this far, you have my sympathy. I just wanted to spell out what is common knowledge to most here on the chance that one item might ring a bell and answer a question for you. If the ISS or either of the PSAT digipeaters would come back online, that would make it a lot easier to practice with these modes. As of the date I'm typing this, all we have active over my location in the U.S. are AISAT-1 (1200 narrow-FM) & FS-3 (9600).
Good luck!
-Scott, K4KDR
===========================
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:01 AM Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hello all,
Apparently my mail about BugSat-1 raised some interest into that bird's digipeater. But that still leaves me with the following question (and I hope I don't sound too obtuse): how do you digipeat? I've tried to understand it by googling it over the past year or so, but I still don't get it much. Most tutorials explain about setting it up, but with HTs. I am running a home station only, with the rig connected to a PC. From what I understand you need to use the program UISS then.
I got as far as this: I installed UISS (under Wine) and got it connected to Direwolf. Right now I can work the Falconsat-3 BBS using PacSat Ground Station and while running that program I see the same messages that Direwolf displays also appearing in UISS. So far, so good, but then what? I press either F5, F6, or F7, but nothing happens. Yes, my rig burps out some data for a split second, but I can't find myself back on APRS.fi. So what am I doing wrong? Any parameters to adjust? Or are digipeats not stored for the next iGate to put it on the internet?
Again, I hope I don't sound too witless, but I've never really understood APRS, apart from terrestrial position reporting and even that was kind of hard with all the paths and whatnot. Hope you nice people on this list can drop some pointers. 73 de Hans
P.S. I've got some nasty local interference on 145.825 MHz and that makes receiving the ISS and other birds almost impossible. I was lucky to get two frames in from IO-86 the other day, because that was due south, with the QRM coming from the north-east. Getting a signal up shouldn't be much of a problem, though.
Hi Scott,
On behalf of all Newbies, thank you for your reply. Thank you for spending a significant amount of time to detail what is essential information to help fellow Hams.
73,
Bernd - KB7AK
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Scott via AMSAT-BB Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2019 1:36 PM To: AMSAT [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] How to digipeat?
Hi Hans!
Like any digital mode, 1200 or 9600 packet requires several things to work together using the correct settings. This might run a little long, but I'll be glad to outline them.
But first, one helpful thing to remember is that you want to treat the uplink & downlink as completely separate affairs. Depending on the satellite, the uplink and downlink might find you using different bands, different radios, different antennas, different software... at a MINIMUM you'll be using different RF frequencies even if it's a simplex packet digipeater since the doppler compensation will be opposite for up -vs- down. (caveat - on 2m normal FM you can get by with sitting on one freq) To me it's always made sense to verify that you're 100% good to go on the downlink, then set yourself up for the uplink.
So, if anyone wants to read on, here are the things to consider.
RF: you'll need to know what the uplink & downlink RF frequencies are and if either is in the 70cm band, doppler compensation is mandatory. Here's a tip: several of the newer sats are using NARROW-FM... even if you're working on 2 meters, doppler compensation to/from a narrow-band satellite radio is making a huge difference in my experience. CAT control your radio if possible; if not, then pre-program 5 memory channels the way most people have their FM radios setup for voice satellite work.
MOD/DEMOD: your radio needs to have a connection to your computer where you run software set to decode the type of modulation in use by the satellite. On Windows, the various UZ7HO Soundmodem versions provide perhaps the easiest interface to work with. Direwolf is an option on Windows, too, and by-the-way makes for a very easy to use iGate utility running off to the side of your screen. On linux, Direwolf is the most popular option to my knowledge. On either platform, of course we have to find out from the satellite documentation what settings are required. A critical note that often prevents success on rates above 1200 baud is that beyond that speed we need more audio bandwidth than is normally available for general listening. So, whether you're using a "real" radio or an SDR, good rules of thumb are 3KHz of audio bandwidth for 1200 baud and 15KHz of audio bandwidth for the higher rates. On modern radios, that means using a connection to the radio's "DATA" port for rates above 1200. My TM-V71A, for example, also has a menu option to switch between 1200 & 9600 - very important!
USER INTERFACE: as you mentioned, the UISS software is a great tool to use as the interface when sending/receiving the packet modes. It communicates with UZ7HO Soundmodem or Direwolf to send/receive data to/from the satellite. But what to transmit? We need that info from the satellite documentation. The "TO" is most often "CQ", but read everything you can find about the satellite in question to be sure. (hint: monitor the downlink & see what others are using!) The "VIA" can be confusing because many sats will respond to more than one name. It all comes down to the documentation - historically the 1200 baud APRS sats will answer to "ARISS" which is handy... you don't have to change all your settings between satellites. FalconSat-3 is different; we use "PFS3-1" when transmitting to FS-3. "If" there actually is an active digipeater on BugSat-1, the team has instructed us to use "LU7AA" as the call sign to access that satellite. (I've tried BugSat-1 twice now but at the time of this post, have not had any success) As for the payload text to transmit, UISS helps a lot (for APRS sats) by guiding us into sending properly formatted 'TEXT', 'POSITION', and 'MESSAGE' type APRS packets. Monitoring the downlink and seeing what message types others are having success with is helpful here. Heck, everything I do on the sats is a copy-cat of the operating techniques used by the operators that you see post repeatedly here, on Twitter, QRZ.com, and elsewhere. A huge 'thank-you' to all who share how-to info!
So, aside from individual considerations that are unique to particular satellites (FS-3 is cross-band full-duplex, for example), that is an overview. If anyone has read this far, you have my sympathy. I just wanted to spell out what is common knowledge to most here on the chance that one item might ring a bell and answer a question for you. If the ISS or either of the PSAT digipeaters would come back online, that would make it a lot easier to practice with these modes. As of the date I'm typing this, all we have active over my location in the U.S. are AISAT-1 (1200 narrow-FM) & FS-3 (9600).
Good luck!
-Scott, K4KDR
===========================
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:01 AM Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hello all,
Apparently my mail about BugSat-1 raised some interest into that bird's digipeater. But that still leaves me with the following question (and I hope I don't sound too obtuse): how do you digipeat? I've tried to understand it by googling it over the past year or so, but I still don't get it much. Most tutorials explain about setting it up, but with HTs. I am running a home station only, with the rig connected to a PC. From what I understand you need to use the program UISS
then.
I got as far as this: I installed UISS (under Wine) and got it connected to Direwolf. Right now I can work the Falconsat-3 BBS using PacSat Ground Station and while running that program I see the same messages that Direwolf displays also appearing in UISS. So far, so good, but then what? I press either F5, F6, or F7, but nothing happens. Yes, my rig burps out some data for a split second, but I can't find myself back on APRS.fi. So what am I doing wrong? Any parameters to adjust? Or are digipeats not stored for the next iGate to
put it on the internet?
Again, I hope I don't sound too witless, but I've never really understood APRS, apart from terrestrial position reporting and even that was kind of hard with all the paths and whatnot. Hope you nice people on this list can drop some pointers. 73 de Hans
P.S. I've got some nasty local interference on 145.825 MHz and that makes receiving the ISS and other birds almost impossible. I was lucky to get two frames in from IO-86 the other day, because that was due south, with the QRM coming from the north-east. Getting a signal up shouldn't be much of a problem, though.
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hey Hons, It seems like there might be a need for a YouTube video explaining the basics of Satellite APRS. Learning APRS on 144.390 MHz is a good place to start. This might be the best way to learn how to work with digipeaters. Satellite APRS has many nuances that make it very different than regular APRS. For example, interference on 145.825 MHz needs to be mitigated when trying to receive faint signals. One thing that helps is lowering the antenna either below a wood fence line or below a wooded tree line or being surrounded by 10 degree hills.
My location has a lot of interference from neighboring RF so I use a band pass filter on 2M for receive. The squelch needs to be at zero. Many Satellite APRS packets do not break the squelch on my HT.
These sites might be helpful: http://www.aprsat.com/predict%C2%A0- this shows upcoming Satellite APRS passes for your area. http://www.spaceCommunicator.club/aprs%C2%A0- this reports Satellite APRS packets from all satellites combined into one place.
You're ahead of me on Falconsat-3; I haven't got that to work yet on 9600 bps. I mostly work with 1200 bps on 145.825 MHz.
73 Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://spaceCommunicator.club/aprs%C2%A0 . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
On Saturday, September 7, 2019, 10:14:44 PM PDT, Bernd Peters via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hi Scott,
On behalf of all Newbies, thank you for your reply. Thank you for spending a significant amount of time to detail what is essential information to help fellow Hams.
73,
Bernd - KB7AK
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [email protected] On Behalf Of Scott via AMSAT-BB Sent: Saturday, September 7, 2019 1:36 PM To: AMSAT [email protected] Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] How to digipeat?
Hi Hans!
Like any digital mode, 1200 or 9600 packet requires several things to work together using the correct settings. This might run a little long, but I'll be glad to outline them.
But first, one helpful thing to remember is that you want to treat the uplink & downlink as completely separate affairs. Depending on the satellite, the uplink and downlink might find you using different bands, different radios, different antennas, different software... at a MINIMUM you'll be using different RF frequencies even if it's a simplex packet digipeater since the doppler compensation will be opposite for up -vs- down. (caveat - on 2m normal FM you can get by with sitting on one freq) To me it's always made sense to verify that you're 100% good to go on the downlink, then set yourself up for the uplink.
So, if anyone wants to read on, here are the things to consider.
RF: you'll need to know what the uplink & downlink RF frequencies are and if either is in the 70cm band, doppler compensation is mandatory. Here's a tip: several of the newer sats are using NARROW-FM... even if you're working on 2 meters, doppler compensation to/from a narrow-band satellite radio is making a huge difference in my experience. CAT control your radio if possible; if not, then pre-program 5 memory channels the way most people have their FM radios setup for voice satellite work.
MOD/DEMOD: your radio needs to have a connection to your computer where you run software set to decode the type of modulation in use by the satellite. On Windows, the various UZ7HO Soundmodem versions provide perhaps the easiest interface to work with. Direwolf is an option on Windows, too, and by-the-way makes for a very easy to use iGate utility running off to the side of your screen. On linux, Direwolf is the most popular option to my knowledge. On either platform, of course we have to find out from the satellite documentation what settings are required. A critical note that often prevents success on rates above 1200 baud is that beyond that speed we need more audio bandwidth than is normally available for general listening. So, whether you're using a "real" radio or an SDR, good rules of thumb are 3KHz of audio bandwidth for 1200 baud and 15KHz of audio bandwidth for the higher rates. On modern radios, that means using a connection to the radio's "DATA" port for rates above 1200. My TM-V71A, for example, also has a menu option to switch between 1200 & 9600 - very important!
USER INTERFACE: as you mentioned, the UISS software is a great tool to use as the interface when sending/receiving the packet modes. It communicates with UZ7HO Soundmodem or Direwolf to send/receive data to/from the satellite. But what to transmit? We need that info from the satellite documentation. The "TO" is most often "CQ", but read everything you can find about the satellite in question to be sure. (hint: monitor the downlink & see what others are using!) The "VIA" can be confusing because many sats will respond to more than one name. It all comes down to the documentation - historically the 1200 baud APRS sats will answer to "ARISS" which is handy... you don't have to change all your settings between satellites. FalconSat-3 is different; we use "PFS3-1" when transmitting to FS-3. "If" there actually is an active digipeater on BugSat-1, the team has instructed us to use "LU7AA" as the call sign to access that satellite. (I've tried BugSat-1 twice now but at the time of this post, have not had any success) As for the payload text to transmit, UISS helps a lot (for APRS sats) by guiding us into sending properly formatted 'TEXT', 'POSITION', and 'MESSAGE' type APRS packets. Monitoring the downlink and seeing what message types others are having success with is helpful here. Heck, everything I do on the sats is a copy-cat of the operating techniques used by the operators that you see post repeatedly here, on Twitter, QRZ.com, and elsewhere. A huge 'thank-you' to all who share how-to info!
So, aside from individual considerations that are unique to particular satellites (FS-3 is cross-band full-duplex, for example), that is an overview. If anyone has read this far, you have my sympathy. I just wanted to spell out what is common knowledge to most here on the chance that one item might ring a bell and answer a question for you. If the ISS or either of the PSAT digipeaters would come back online, that would make it a lot easier to practice with these modes. As of the date I'm typing this, all we have active over my location in the U.S. are AISAT-1 (1200 narrow-FM) & FS-3 (9600).
Good luck!
-Scott, K4KDR
===========================
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:01 AM Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hello all,
Apparently my mail about BugSat-1 raised some interest into that bird's digipeater. But that still leaves me with the following question (and I hope I don't sound too obtuse): how do you digipeat? I've tried to understand it by googling it over the past year or so, but I still don't get it much. Most tutorials explain about setting it up, but with HTs. I am running a home station only, with the rig connected to a PC. From what I understand you need to use the program UISS
then.
I got as far as this: I installed UISS (under Wine) and got it connected to Direwolf. Right now I can work the Falconsat-3 BBS using PacSat Ground Station and while running that program I see the same messages that Direwolf displays also appearing in UISS. So far, so good, but then what? I press either F5, F6, or F7, but nothing happens. Yes, my rig burps out some data for a split second, but I can't find myself back on APRS.fi. So what am I doing wrong? Any parameters to adjust? Or are digipeats not stored for the next iGate to
put it on the internet?
Again, I hope I don't sound too witless, but I've never really understood APRS, apart from terrestrial position reporting and even that was kind of hard with all the paths and whatnot. Hope you nice people on this list can drop some pointers. 73 de Hans
P.S. I've got some nasty local interference on 145.825 MHz and that makes receiving the ISS and other birds almost impossible. I was lucky to get two frames in from IO-86 the other day, because that was due south, with the QRM coming from the north-east. Getting a signal up shouldn't be much of a problem, though.
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 09/08/2019 02:13 PM, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Hey Hons, It seems like there might be a need for a YouTube video explaining the basics of Satellite APRS.
Yes, and one on UISS. There are so many options and being (still) an outsider it is daunting.
Learning APRS on 144.390 MHz is a good place to start. This might be the best way to learn how to work with digipeaters.
Terrestrial APRS I do understand a bit. At least I get that you can send a message and it will get digipeated via many digipeaters till it gets to its destination. Never done it, but it is suppose to work like that, right? When sending out your location it will travel only so far. Sat APRS seems not to have this capability of storing a digipeat and then rebroadcasting it to the next digipeater, or am I wrong with that assumption?
Satellite APRS has many nuances that make it very different than regular APRS. For example, interference on 145.825 MHz needs to be mitigated when trying to receive faint signals. One thing that helps is lowering the antenna either below a wood fence line or below a wooded tree line or being surrounded by 10 degree hills.
Unfortunately I can't do much about the QRM. It's from a big electronic billboard a couple of hundred meters away. Knowing the attitude of the local FCC and the government here and being "just" an amateur I doubt that they will take action to clean it up. Having a good F/B gain will help, so my next step will be in building a better 2m yagi.
These sites might be helpful: http://www.aprsat.com/predict%C2%A0- this shows upcoming Satellite APRS passes for your area. http://www.spaceCommunicator.club/aprs%C2%A0- this reports Satellite APRS packets from all satellites combined into one place.
About that last site: are the packets listed there received at the location of W7KKE, or are they aggregated from different sources?
You're ahead of me on Falconsat-3; I haven't got that to work yet on 9600 bps. I mostly work with 1200 bps on 145.825 MHz.
It took me a while to get it working and I'm writing tutorial about the setup on my web site. It's not finished yet, though. I am a Linux user and the BBS part of FS-3 works like a charm thanks to the PacSat Ground software of Chris G0KLA.
Thanks for the reply and 73 de Hans BX2ABT
What is the callsign for IO-86 telemetry beacons?
Due to the equatorial orbit I never hear it in California. 73 Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://spaceCommunicator.club/aprs%C2%A0 . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
On Saturday, September 7, 2019, 01:40:06 PM PDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hi Hans!
Like any digital mode, 1200 or 9600 packet requires several things to work together using the correct settings. This might run a little long, but I'll be glad to outline them.
But first, one helpful thing to remember is that you want to treat the uplink & downlink as completely separate affairs. Depending on the satellite, the uplink and downlink might find you using different bands, different radios, different antennas, different software... at a MINIMUM you'll be using different RF frequencies even if it's a simplex packet digipeater since the doppler compensation will be opposite for up -vs- down. (caveat - on 2m normal FM you can get by with sitting on one freq) To me it's always made sense to verify that you're 100% good to go on the downlink, then set yourself up for the uplink.
So, if anyone wants to read on, here are the things to consider.
RF: you'll need to know what the uplink & downlink RF frequencies are and if either is in the 70cm band, doppler compensation is mandatory. Here's a tip: several of the newer sats are using NARROW-FM... even if you're working on 2 meters, doppler compensation to/from a narrow-band satellite radio is making a huge difference in my experience. CAT control your radio if possible; if not, then pre-program 5 memory channels the way most people have their FM radios setup for voice satellite work.
MOD/DEMOD: your radio needs to have a connection to your computer where you run software set to decode the type of modulation in use by the satellite. On Windows, the various UZ7HO Soundmodem versions provide perhaps the easiest interface to work with. Direwolf is an option on Windows, too, and by-the-way makes for a very easy to use iGate utility running off to the side of your screen. On linux, Direwolf is the most popular option to my knowledge. On either platform, of course we have to find out from the satellite documentation what settings are required. A critical note that often prevents success on rates above 1200 baud is that beyond that speed we need more audio bandwidth than is normally available for general listening. So, whether you're using a "real" radio or an SDR, good rules of thumb are 3KHz of audio bandwidth for 1200 baud and 15KHz of audio bandwidth for the higher rates. On modern radios, that means using a connection to the radio's "DATA" port for rates above 1200. My TM-V71A, for example, also has a menu option to switch between 1200 & 9600 - very important!
USER INTERFACE: as you mentioned, the UISS software is a great tool to use as the interface when sending/receiving the packet modes. It communicates with UZ7HO Soundmodem or Direwolf to send/receive data to/from the satellite. But what to transmit? We need that info from the satellite documentation. The "TO" is most often "CQ", but read everything you can find about the satellite in question to be sure. (hint: monitor the downlink & see what others are using!) The "VIA" can be confusing because many sats will respond to more than one name. It all comes down to the documentation - historically the 1200 baud APRS sats will answer to "ARISS" which is handy... you don't have to change all your settings between satellites. FalconSat-3 is different; we use "PFS3-1" when transmitting to FS-3. "If" there actually is an active digipeater on BugSat-1, the team has instructed us to use "LU7AA" as the call sign to access that satellite. (I've tried BugSat-1 twice now but at the time of this post, have not had any success) As for the payload text to transmit, UISS helps a lot (for APRS sats) by guiding us into sending properly formatted 'TEXT', 'POSITION', and 'MESSAGE' type APRS packets. Monitoring the downlink and seeing what message types others are having success with is helpful here. Heck, everything I do on the sats is a copy-cat of the operating techniques used by the operators that you see post repeatedly here, on Twitter, QRZ.com, and elsewhere. A huge 'thank-you' to all who share how-to info!
So, aside from individual considerations that are unique to particular satellites (FS-3 is cross-band full-duplex, for example), that is an overview. If anyone has read this far, you have my sympathy. I just wanted to spell out what is common knowledge to most here on the chance that one item might ring a bell and answer a question for you. If the ISS or either of the PSAT digipeaters would come back online, that would make it a lot easier to practice with these modes. As of the date I'm typing this, all we have active over my location in the U.S. are AISAT-1 (1200 narrow-FM) & FS-3 (9600).
Good luck!
-Scott, K4KDR
===========================
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:01 AM Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hello all,
Apparently my mail about BugSat-1 raised some interest into that bird's digipeater. But that still leaves me with the following question (and I hope I don't sound too obtuse): how do you digipeat? I've tried to understand it by googling it over the past year or so, but I still don't get it much. Most tutorials explain about setting it up, but with HTs. I am running a home station only, with the rig connected to a PC. From what I understand you need to use the program UISS then.
I got as far as this: I installed UISS (under Wine) and got it connected to Direwolf. Right now I can work the Falconsat-3 BBS using PacSat Ground Station and while running that program I see the same messages that Direwolf displays also appearing in UISS. So far, so good, but then what? I press either F5, F6, or F7, but nothing happens. Yes, my rig burps out some data for a split second, but I can't find myself back on APRS.fi. So what am I doing wrong? Any parameters to adjust? Or are digipeats not stored for the next iGate to put it on the internet?
Again, I hope I don't sound too witless, but I've never really understood APRS, apart from terrestrial position reporting and even that was kind of hard with all the paths and whatnot. Hope you nice people on this list can drop some pointers. 73 de Hans
P.S. I've got some nasty local interference on 145.825 MHz and that makes receiving the ISS and other birds almost impossible. I was lucky to get two frames in from IO-86 the other day, because that was due south, with the QRM coming from the north-east. Getting a signal up shouldn't be much of a problem, though.
_______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Call is YB0X. I've got a screenshot on my website of the two beacons received: http://bx2abt.com/main/Lapan_A2_(IO-86)
Max elevation here in Taiwan is almost 7 degrees on some days. This gives me a 5~6 minute opening to work this bird, which is my absolute favorite right now because it sound great and is very strong even at low angles. I have no problem working it with my modest station.
73 de Hans BX2ABT
On 09/08/2019 02:00 PM, Robert MacHale via AMSAT-BB wrote:
What is the callsign for IO-86 telemetry beacons?
Due to the equatorial orbit I never hear it in California. 73 Robert MacHale. KE6BLR Ham Radio License. http://spaceCommunicator.club/aprs . Supporting Boy Scout Merit Badges in Radio, Robotics, and Space Exploration
On Saturday, September 7, 2019, 01:40:06 PM PDT, Scott via AMSAT-BB <[email protected]> wrote:Hi Hans!
Like any digital mode, 1200 or 9600 packet requires several things to work together using the correct settings. This might run a little long, but I'll be glad to outline them.
But first, one helpful thing to remember is that you want to treat the uplink & downlink as completely separate affairs. Depending on the satellite, the uplink and downlink might find you using different bands, different radios, different antennas, different software... at a MINIMUM you'll be using different RF frequencies even if it's a simplex packet digipeater since the doppler compensation will be opposite for up -vs- down. (caveat - on 2m normal FM you can get by with sitting on one freq) To me it's always made sense to verify that you're 100% good to go on the downlink, then set yourself up for the uplink.
So, if anyone wants to read on, here are the things to consider.
RF: you'll need to know what the uplink & downlink RF frequencies are and if either is in the 70cm band, doppler compensation is mandatory. Here's a tip: several of the newer sats are using NARROW-FM... even if you're working on 2 meters, doppler compensation to/from a narrow-band satellite radio is making a huge difference in my experience. CAT control your radio if possible; if not, then pre-program 5 memory channels the way most people have their FM radios setup for voice satellite work.
MOD/DEMOD: your radio needs to have a connection to your computer where you run software set to decode the type of modulation in use by the satellite. On Windows, the various UZ7HO Soundmodem versions provide perhaps the easiest interface to work with. Direwolf is an option on Windows, too, and by-the-way makes for a very easy to use iGate utility running off to the side of your screen. On linux, Direwolf is the most popular option to my knowledge. On either platform, of course we have to find out from the satellite documentation what settings are required. A critical note that often prevents success on rates above 1200 baud is that beyond that speed we need more audio bandwidth than is normally available for general listening. So, whether you're using a "real" radio or an SDR, good rules of thumb are 3KHz of audio bandwidth for 1200 baud and 15KHz of audio bandwidth for the higher rates. On modern radios, that means using a connection to the radio's "DATA" port for rates above 1200. My TM-V71A, for example, also has a menu option to switch between 1200 & 9600 - very important!
USER INTERFACE: as you mentioned, the UISS software is a great tool to use as the interface when sending/receiving the packet modes. It communicates with UZ7HO Soundmodem or Direwolf to send/receive data to/from the satellite. But what to transmit? We need that info from the satellite documentation. The "TO" is most often "CQ", but read everything you can find about the satellite in question to be sure. (hint: monitor the downlink & see what others are using!) The "VIA" can be confusing because many sats will respond to more than one name. It all comes down to the documentation - historically the 1200 baud APRS sats will answer to "ARISS" which is handy... you don't have to change all your settings between satellites. FalconSat-3 is different; we use "PFS3-1" when transmitting to FS-3. "If" there actually is an active digipeater on BugSat-1, the team has instructed us to use "LU7AA" as the call sign to access that satellite. (I've tried BugSat-1 twice now but at the time of this post, have not had any success) As for the payload text to transmit, UISS helps a lot (for APRS sats) by guiding us into sending properly formatted 'TEXT', 'POSITION', and 'MESSAGE' type APRS packets. Monitoring the downlink and seeing what message types others are having success with is helpful here. Heck, everything I do on the sats is a copy-cat of the operating techniques used by the operators that you see post repeatedly here, on Twitter, QRZ.com, and elsewhere. A huge 'thank-you' to all who share how-to info!
So, aside from individual considerations that are unique to particular satellites (FS-3 is cross-band full-duplex, for example), that is an overview. If anyone has read this far, you have my sympathy. I just wanted to spell out what is common knowledge to most here on the chance that one item might ring a bell and answer a question for you. If the ISS or either of the PSAT digipeaters would come back online, that would make it a lot easier to practice with these modes. As of the date I'm typing this, all we have active over my location in the U.S. are AISAT-1 (1200 narrow-FM) & FS-3 (9600).
Good luck!
-Scott, K4KDR
===========================
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:01 AM Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hello all,
Apparently my mail about BugSat-1 raised some interest into that bird's digipeater. But that still leaves me with the following question (and I hope I don't sound too obtuse): how do you digipeat? I've tried to understand it by googling it over the past year or so, but I still don't get it much. Most tutorials explain about setting it up, but with HTs. I am running a home station only, with the rig connected to a PC. From what I understand you need to use the program UISS then.
I got as far as this: I installed UISS (under Wine) and got it connected to Direwolf. Right now I can work the Falconsat-3 BBS using PacSat Ground Station and while running that program I see the same messages that Direwolf displays also appearing in UISS. So far, so good, but then what? I press either F5, F6, or F7, but nothing happens. Yes, my rig burps out some data for a split second, but I can't find myself back on APRS.fi. So what am I doing wrong? Any parameters to adjust? Or are digipeats not stored for the next iGate to put it on the internet?
Again, I hope I don't sound too witless, but I've never really understood APRS, apart from terrestrial position reporting and even that was kind of hard with all the paths and whatnot. Hope you nice people on this list can drop some pointers. 73 de Hans
P.S. I've got some nasty local interference on 145.825 MHz and that makes receiving the ISS and other birds almost impossible. I was lucky to get two frames in from IO-86 the other day, because that was due south, with the QRM coming from the north-east. Getting a signal up shouldn't be much of a problem, though.
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hello Scott,
Thank you so much for writing this long reply. We should archive it for future use, because this is very comprehensive.
Just by trying many options I was able to get UISS to send something out on Falconsat-3. I tried CQ, ARISS, and BEACON and used the FPS3-1 as path. Half an hour later on Twitter I received a notification from E29AHU in Thailand that he saw my digipeat on his soundmodem output. There are some tweets on Twitter with screenshots, so just search for BX2ABT. So a little success and at least I know UISS is working.
Unfortunately, if this whole digipeating means there is no store-and-forward and you need iGates to be able to see your digipeats on the web then I won't have much fun with this, because here in east Asia it is very quiet. There were some JA hams working the FS-3 BBS and also digipeating, but they have been inactive lately. Maybe I can persuade them to do some experimenting with me.
73 de Hans
BX2ABT
On 09/08/2019 04:35 AM, Scott via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Hi Hans!
Like any digital mode, 1200 or 9600 packet requires several things to work together using the correct settings. This might run a little long, but I'll be glad to outline them.
But first, one helpful thing to remember is that you want to treat the uplink & downlink as completely separate affairs. Depending on the satellite, the uplink and downlink might find you using different bands, different radios, different antennas, different software... at a MINIMUM you'll be using different RF frequencies even if it's a simplex packet digipeater since the doppler compensation will be opposite for up -vs- down. (caveat - on 2m normal FM you can get by with sitting on one freq) To me it's always made sense to verify that you're 100% good to go on the downlink, then set yourself up for the uplink.
So, if anyone wants to read on, here are the things to consider.
RF: you'll need to know what the uplink & downlink RF frequencies are and if either is in the 70cm band, doppler compensation is mandatory. Here's a tip: several of the newer sats are using NARROW-FM... even if you're working on 2 meters, doppler compensation to/from a narrow-band satellite radio is making a huge difference in my experience. CAT control your radio if possible; if not, then pre-program 5 memory channels the way most people have their FM radios setup for voice satellite work.
MOD/DEMOD: your radio needs to have a connection to your computer where you run software set to decode the type of modulation in use by the satellite. On Windows, the various UZ7HO Soundmodem versions provide perhaps the easiest interface to work with. Direwolf is an option on Windows, too, and by-the-way makes for a very easy to use iGate utility running off to the side of your screen. On linux, Direwolf is the most popular option to my knowledge. On either platform, of course we have to find out from the satellite documentation what settings are required. A critical note that often prevents success on rates above 1200 baud is that beyond that speed we need more audio bandwidth than is normally available for general listening. So, whether you're using a "real" radio or an SDR, good rules of thumb are 3KHz of audio bandwidth for 1200 baud and 15KHz of audio bandwidth for the higher rates. On modern radios, that means using a connection to the radio's "DATA" port for rates above 1200. My TM-V71A, for example, also has a menu option to switch between 1200 & 9600 - very important!
USER INTERFACE: as you mentioned, the UISS software is a great tool to use as the interface when sending/receiving the packet modes. It communicates with UZ7HO Soundmodem or Direwolf to send/receive data to/from the satellite. But what to transmit? We need that info from the satellite documentation. The "TO" is most often "CQ", but read everything you can find about the satellite in question to be sure. (hint: monitor the downlink & see what others are using!) The "VIA" can be confusing because many sats will respond to more than one name. It all comes down to the documentation - historically the 1200 baud APRS sats will answer to "ARISS" which is handy... you don't have to change all your settings between satellites. FalconSat-3 is different; we use "PFS3-1" when transmitting to FS-3. "If" there actually is an active digipeater on BugSat-1, the team has instructed us to use "LU7AA" as the call sign to access that satellite. (I've tried BugSat-1 twice now but at the time of this post, have not had any success) As for the payload text to transmit, UISS helps a lot (for APRS sats) by guiding us into sending properly formatted 'TEXT', 'POSITION', and 'MESSAGE' type APRS packets. Monitoring the downlink and seeing what message types others are having success with is helpful here. Heck, everything I do on the sats is a copy-cat of the operating techniques used by the operators that you see post repeatedly here, on Twitter, QRZ.com, and elsewhere. A huge 'thank-you' to all who share how-to info!
So, aside from individual considerations that are unique to particular satellites (FS-3 is cross-band full-duplex, for example), that is an overview. If anyone has read this far, you have my sympathy. I just wanted to spell out what is common knowledge to most here on the chance that one item might ring a bell and answer a question for you. If the ISS or either of the PSAT digipeaters would come back online, that would make it a lot easier to practice with these modes. As of the date I'm typing this, all we have active over my location in the U.S. are AISAT-1 (1200 narrow-FM) & FS-3 (9600).
Good luck!
-Scott, K4KDR
===========================
On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 11:01 AM Hans BX2ABT via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
Hello all,
Apparently my mail about BugSat-1 raised some interest into that bird's digipeater. But that still leaves me with the following question (and I hope I don't sound too obtuse): how do you digipeat? I've tried to understand it by googling it over the past year or so, but I still don't get it much. Most tutorials explain about setting it up, but with HTs. I am running a home station only, with the rig connected to a PC. From what I understand you need to use the program UISS then.
I got as far as this: I installed UISS (under Wine) and got it connected to Direwolf. Right now I can work the Falconsat-3 BBS using PacSat Ground Station and while running that program I see the same messages that Direwolf displays also appearing in UISS. So far, so good, but then what? I press either F5, F6, or F7, but nothing happens. Yes, my rig burps out some data for a split second, but I can't find myself back on APRS.fi. So what am I doing wrong? Any parameters to adjust? Or are digipeats not stored for the next iGate to put it on the internet?
Again, I hope I don't sound too witless, but I've never really understood APRS, apart from terrestrial position reporting and even that was kind of hard with all the paths and whatnot. Hope you nice people on this list can drop some pointers. 73 de Hans
P.S. I've got some nasty local interference on 145.825 MHz and that makes receiving the ISS and other birds almost impossible. I was lucky to get two frames in from IO-86 the other day, because that was due south, with the QRM coming from the north-east. Getting a signal up shouldn't be much of a problem, though.
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I thought I'd toss out a few more hints to help folks trying to figure out how to get UISS to speak satellite packet. This is pretty much UISS specific detail. Make sure you have your station setup the way Scott and Hans have discussed.
Setup your TNC with the MYCALL command. When you setup UISS the call sign you enter during setup will be your MYCALL parameter.
Most of 145.825 MHz digipeater satellites use the AX.25 UI protocol You setup this protocol with the command:
UNPROTO CQ VIA <satellite-callsign> such as CQ VIA ARISS, RS0ISS, PSAT, LU7AA-1, etc.
You can enter these parameters in UISS in the top-left of the screen in the "To" and "Via" windows. Set "To:" as CQ and "Via" as the call sign of the satellite you are working.
In the UISS 'Tx Text' window (the top text windows) enter: =Lat/Long-Message-to-digipeat -or- in my case near Chicago I use: =4211.29N/08827.08W-Greetings :-) You need the = and - in your message string. The dash displays your icon as the house on the map.
To transmit your packet to the satellite click on the UISS Text/Data button and this should then trigger your transmitter. Folks use vari- ous combinations of PTT controls or VOX to trigger their transmitter - use whatever works for you.
The shorter your message the better chance you have of getting digi- peated if lots of stations are causing packet collisions.
Additional terrestrial packet routes such as WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1, etc. are not useful for space digipeating. Your target is the APRS satel- lite on 145.825 not the terrestrials on 144.390. The satellite digi- peats to us earthlings (and the SatGates) listening on 145.825. You aren't trying to tell every APRS station on 144.390 within hundreds of miles where you are driving.
Adding all the WIDE strings also has the effect of making your packet longer, decreasing your success of getting digipeated on a busy pass.
A lot of UISS setups document using AGWPE for your packet modem. This is a tried and true packet engine. Many of found that the UZ7HO soft- ware packet modem gives better performance especially when receiving. Your software packet modem will expect to receive the entire packet transmission with no errors - the correct checksum for it to be dis- played on your computer. Often you hear "good sounding" packets but if you aren't receiving the whole kahuna with correct checksum you won't get the message displayed. The same generally applies to the SatGate stations listening to the activity and gating it on to the web.
The UISS program will require settings to be changed to operate with UZ7HO Soundmodem: In UISS top menu select Setup -> UISS -> LAN Click 'Enable LAN Mode'
In LAN setup click on 'Enable LAN Mode' Host 127.0.0.1 AGWPort 8000
UISS may ask you to restart, go ahead and restart UISS.
For normal operation start the UZ7HO Soundmodem first. Then start UISS. When both programs are running UISS will show it has connected with the Soundmodem:
Connected to server 127.0.0.1 Port1 with Soundcard Ch: A;
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM [email protected]
Some great information, JoAnne. I'm on Linux and use Direwolf instead of Soundmodem. In the Direwolf config file you will have to enter your call and the paths to your incoming and outgoing sound sources. After that you are set, so there is not much to it.
73 de Hans
BX2ABT
On 09/08/2019 10:55 PM, JoAnne Maenpaa via AMSAT-BB wrote:
I thought I'd toss out a few more hints to help folks trying to figure out how to get UISS to speak satellite packet. This is pretty much UISS specific detail. Make sure you have your station setup the way Scott and Hans have discussed.
Setup your TNC with the MYCALL command. When you setup UISS the call sign you enter during setup will be your MYCALL parameter.
Most of 145.825 MHz digipeater satellites use the AX.25 UI protocol You setup this protocol with the command:
UNPROTO CQ VIA <satellite-callsign> such as CQ VIA ARISS, RS0ISS, PSAT, LU7AA-1, etc.
You can enter these parameters in UISS in the top-left of the screen in the "To" and "Via" windows. Set "To:" as CQ and "Via" as the call sign of the satellite you are working.
In the UISS 'Tx Text' window (the top text windows) enter: =Lat/Long-Message-to-digipeat -or- in my case near Chicago I use: =4211.29N/08827.08W-Greetings :-) You need the = and - in your message string. The dash displays your icon as the house on the map.
To transmit your packet to the satellite click on the UISS Text/Data button and this should then trigger your transmitter. Folks use vari- ous combinations of PTT controls or VOX to trigger their transmitter
- use whatever works for you.
The shorter your message the better chance you have of getting digi- peated if lots of stations are causing packet collisions.
Additional terrestrial packet routes such as WIDE1-1, WIDE2-1, etc. are not useful for space digipeating. Your target is the APRS satel- lite on 145.825 not the terrestrials on 144.390. The satellite digi- peats to us earthlings (and the SatGates) listening on 145.825. You aren't trying to tell every APRS station on 144.390 within hundreds of miles where you are driving.
Adding all the WIDE strings also has the effect of making your packet longer, decreasing your success of getting digipeated on a busy pass.
A lot of UISS setups document using AGWPE for your packet modem. This is a tried and true packet engine. Many of found that the UZ7HO soft- ware packet modem gives better performance especially when receiving. Your software packet modem will expect to receive the entire packet transmission with no errors - the correct checksum for it to be dis- played on your computer. Often you hear "good sounding" packets but if you aren't receiving the whole kahuna with correct checksum you won't get the message displayed. The same generally applies to the SatGate stations listening to the activity and gating it on to the web.
The UISS program will require settings to be changed to operate with UZ7HO Soundmodem: In UISS top menu select Setup -> UISS -> LAN Click 'Enable LAN Mode'
In LAN setup click on 'Enable LAN Mode' Host 127.0.0.1 AGWPort 8000
UISS may ask you to restart, go ahead and restart UISS.
For normal operation start the UZ7HO Soundmodem first. Then start UISS. When both programs are running UISS will show it has connected with the Soundmodem:
Connected to server 127.0.0.1 Port1 with Soundcard Ch: A;
-- 73 de JoAnne K9JKM [email protected]
Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (5)
-
bernd1peters＠gmail.com -
Hans BX2ABT -
JoAnne Maenpaa -
Robert MacHale -
Scott