Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
Just out of curiosity, have any of the command stations tried to open the solar panels to give AO-40 another chance at life? I mean, if the "event" caused some damage to the satellite with the solar panels retracted, what's to say that opening the panels wouldn't possibly provide just enough power to the CPU to get some telemetry flowing (if the commands could be received, and the panels aren't damaged)? What else do we have to lose - she's been off for how many years now without any signs of coming back? If the command stations were to try something, might I suggest announcing a date first so the big stations ( if any are left) can possibly assist in listening for any type of signal?
Just a thought I've had for some time now, and thought this might be an appropriate time / thread to finally say something. 73's ...Larry N1MIW
Or maybe, just maybe we can have another AO-7 event happen to AO-40 (sobsob). Every so often I throw a bit of RF up there, just in case.
73 Bob W7LRD
----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" n1miw@cox.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 4:29:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
Just out of curiosity, have any of the command stations tried to open the solar panels to give AO-40 another chance at life? I mean, if the "event" caused some damage to the satellite with the solar panels retracted, what's to say that opening the panels wouldn't possibly provide just enough power to the CPU to get some telemetry flowing (if the commands could be received, and the panels aren't damaged)? What else do we have to lose - she's been off for how many years now without any signs of coming back? If the command stations were to try something, might I suggest announcing a date first so the big stations ( if any are left) can possibly assist in listening for any type of signal?
Just a thought I've had for some time now, and thought this might be an appropriate time / thread to finally say something. 73's ...Larry N1MIW
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I wonder if the satellite needs to be commanded "on" before any signals are transmitted, otherwise no amount of RF will make a difference.
It would be nice to have another AO-7! I wonder how such a thing would work with a sophisticated satellite (schedule, offpoint angle, etc.) such as AO-40 though. My fingers are crossed that it could happen at some point in my lifetime! I'd also like to see AO-10 come back too - we need more than LEO'S up there. Just 1 HEO would be nice! Any universities reading this? :-) ...N1MIW -----Original Message----- From: Bob- W7LRD [mailto:w7lrd@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 7:50 PM To: n1miw@cox.net Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
Or maybe, just maybe we can have another AO-7 event happen to AO-40 (sobsob). Every so often I throw a bit of RF up there, just in case.
73 Bob W7LRD
----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" n1miw@cox.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 4:29:17 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
Just out of curiosity, have any of the command stations tried to open the solar panels to give AO-40 another chance at life? I mean, if the "event" caused some damage to the satellite with the solar panels retracted, what's to say that opening the panels wouldn't possibly provide just enough power to the CPU to get some telemetry flowing (if the commands could be received, and the panels aren't damaged)? What else do we have to lose - she's been off for how many years now without any signs of coming back? If the command stations were to try something, might I suggest announcing a date first so the big stations ( if any are left) can possibly assist in listening for any type of signal?
Just a thought I've had for some time now, and thought this might be an appropriate time / thread to finally say something. 73's ...Larry N1MIW
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Universities don't need long life expensive projects. They want something cheap that this years students can do this year. Next year there are new students and new projects.
Larry wrote: Any universities reading this? :-) ...N1MIW
True, but if they could develop a low-cost linear satellite, combine that with design assistance/ideas and donations from satellite users (AMSAT, ETC.) to offset the cost of the launch, we would be able to have a HEO fairly quickly. That would be better than just putting a CW beacon on the air from a LEO, right? Or would politics get in the way? Just a thought. ...N1MIW
-----Original Message----- From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF [mailto:nigel@ngunn.net] Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 8:54 PM To: n1miw@cox.net Cc: 'Bob- W7LRD'; amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
Universities don't need long life expensive projects. They want something cheap that this years students can do this year. Next year there are new students and new projects.
Larry wrote: Any universities reading this? :-) ...N1MIW
I'm no expert on AO-40, but to the best of my knowledge, the solar panels are not retractable - they are fixed in place. The satellite cannot be commanded "on", as the shorted batteries shunt virtually all of the solar panel output, such that either the command receiver is not operating at all, or there is simply not enough juice to switch anything. Our best hope is that someday, the batteries will fail open, just as AO-7's batteries did, and AO-40 comes back to life when adequately illuminated.
George, KA3HSW
----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry" n1miw@cox.net To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:29 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Can we get them to fix AO-40 first then?
Just out of curiosity, have any of the command stations tried to open the solar panels to give AO-40 another chance at life? I mean, if the "event" caused some damage to the satellite with the solar panels retracted, what's to say that opening the panels wouldn't possibly provide just enough power to the CPU to get some telemetry flowing (if the commands could be received, and the panels aren't damaged)? What else do we have to lose - she's been off for how many years now without any signs of coming back? If the command stations were to try something, might I suggest announcing a date first so the big stations ( if any are left) can possibly assist in listening for any type of signal?
Just a thought I've had for some time now, and thought this might be an appropriate time / thread to finally say something. 73's ...Larry N1MIW
I'm no expert on AO-40, but to the best of my knowledge, the solar panels are not retractable - they are fixed in place. The satellite cannot be commanded "on", as the shorted batteries shunt virtually all of the solar panel output, such that either the command receiver is not operating at all, or there is simply not enough juice to switch anything. Our best hope is that someday, the batteries will fail open, just as AO-7's batteries did, and AO-40 comes back to life when adequately illuminated.
George, KA3HSW
Four of the solar panels are retractable but not released. Please see some old pictures. As the orientation of AO-40 is not known it is better that the panels are kept around the satellite. If they still exists... There is enough power from a single panel to run IHU and some beacon if the bus wires and electronics are not damaged. Some sensors indicated that sun is shining into the satellite so there may be big hole(s) in it. Not sure about that raport though. Have to check out that. The beacons were loud with the omnis and data was easily received with rubber duck and hand held radio. Miss that fine telemetry sound.
I have allways said that the world would be different if AO-40 were alive.
Jari, OH3UW
On 12 Oct 2009 at 8:50, jari.koivurinne@aina.net wrote:
I'm no expert on AO-40, but to the best of my knowledge, the solar panels are not retractable - they are fixed in place. The satellite cannot be commanded "on", as the shorted batteries shunt virtually all of the solar panel output, such that either the command receiver is not operating at all, or there is simply not enough juice to switch anything. Our best hope is that someday, the batteries will fail open, just as AO-7's batteries did, and AO-40 comes back to life when adequately illuminated.
George, KA3HSW
Four of the solar panels are retractable but not released. Please see some old pictures. As the orientation of AO-40 is not known it is better that the panels are kept around the satellite. If they still exists... There is enough power from a single panel to run IHU and some beacon if the bus wires and electronics are not damaged. Some sensors indicated that sun is shining into the satellite so there may be big hole(s) in it. Not sure about that raport though. Have to check out that. The beacons were loud with the omnis and data was easily received with rubber duck and hand held radio. Miss that fine telemetry sound.
I have allways said that the world would be different if AO-40 were alive.
Jari, OH3UW
Just an excerpt from the amsat-dl AO-40 status page http://www.amsat-dl.org/journal/adlj-p3d.htm
"The BCR's are designed to function with the solar panels extended, when they have to handle over 3 times the power available in spin mode."
You can also have a pretty good idea of AO-40 life at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AO-40.
Is AO-40 will be a next AO-07 in 30 years from 2004 lets say in 2034? just reading back this catastrophic event period i note this.
" --W4SM for the AO-40 Command Team
PERSONAL NOTE : Like my colleagues on the command team, I have lived and breathed AO-40 for over four years. All of us can almost mentally decode 400 bps PSK. We hear it in our sleep. I was watching the battery voltage telemetry at the exact moment that the voltage dropped precipitously. In my "day job" I have frequently watched catastrophic events unfold in human beings, and the feeling was EXACTLY the same. Part of my day job is to have to make quick decisions during times such times, decisions that can have serious consequences. I was instantly aware that we had a serious power event, and I considered cutting the main battery loose and trying to run on the nearly completely discharged and untested under load aux. battery. However, because I did not have a clear understanding of where the primary fault was, I elected to watch things and try to figure out what was happening. The general rule of, "when in doubt wait to understand" works most of the time... In this case it didn't, and I'd sure like to live those minutes over again and cut the main battery loose. Hindsight is always 20-20. Of course, if it had crashed anyway, then I'd really be beating myself up. If it's at all possible to bring AO- 40 back, we will. If the voltage is clamped low and there is no other damage, we may end up waiting a long time for a cell to "open", hopefully not as long as for AO-07. ..or it may happen today. No success for even weeks or months does not mean that we won't eventually be successful. We will sure keep trying. Several of you have written very nice notes of support. Thank you."
I have a question in mind since that time. Is an open cell event as the one happens in AO-07 can in the last AO-40 batteries context and condition enable enough power/voltage-current to bring the satellite to some sort of life?
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
http://thespacereview.com/article/1490/1
Robert WB5MZO _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/
Hi,
I still have an AIDC 3731 "K5GNA" 2.4GHz downconverter. Never used
In addition, I also have three (3) unmodified CAL 130215 downconverters with brackets in their original boxes.
Will sell all four pieces for $35 plus shipping. Yes, that's $35 for all!
Shipping should be around $35 to US, since the CALs are a bit heavy.
PayPal preferred. Please reply directly to:
wageners(at)gmail.com
73, Stefan VE4NSA
Thanks everyone for the great interest and the kind words.
As expected the units sold immediately and will have a new home soon.
If anyone is interested in some AMSAT satellite memorabilia (the good old days of oscarlocator) please see the following auction on Ebay.
280409075816
73, Stefan, VE4NSA
On 2009-10-12, at 1:54 PM, Stefan Wagener wrote:
Hi,
I still have an AIDC 3731 "K5GNA" 2.4GHz downconverter. Never used
In addition, I also have three (3) unmodified CAL 130215 downconverters with brackets in their original boxes.
Will sell all four pieces for $35 plus shipping. Yes, that's $35 for all!
Shipping should be around $35 to US, since the CALs are a bit heavy.
PayPal preferred. Please reply directly to:
wageners(at)gmail.com
73, Stefan VE4NSA
On Mon, 2009-10-12 at 03:24 -0400, Luc Leblanc wrote:
40 back, we will. If the voltage is clamped low and there is no other damage, we may end up waiting a long time for a cell to "open", hopefully not as long as for AO-07. ..or it may happen today. No success for even weeks or months does not mean that we won't eventually be successful.
On a more practical note, could there be some sort of failsafe "battery went phut so disconnect it" device? I'm guessing a perfectly ordinary inline fuse would be too simple, but perhaps some sort of mechanical latch that would just pop the battery terminal if it lost power would work.
Gordon MM0YEQ
successful.
On a more practical note, could there be some sort of failsafe "battery went phut so disconnect it" device? I'm guessing a perfectly ordinary inline fuse would be too simple, but perhaps some sort of mechanical latch that would just pop the battery terminal if it lost power would work.
Gordon MM0YEQ
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that is fairly common in many spacecraft (I have checked a few designs) and most transport category airplanes. I dont have a clue why it wasnt put into AO-40
Robert WB5MZO _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/
Hi Gordon,
such a fuse would not prevent a battery from an internal short-cut in one or more cells... that's in fact what happened to AO-40. Also you have to make such a "failsafe" feature really fail safe, so that it does not hit you in the back if it fails.. These kind of things, like Watchdogs, always sound simple and easy, but very often they are cause for more trouble. We have seen satellites with Watchdogs going mad and resetting computers while it was not necessary and do more harm than good. Clearly, nobody expected that the battery would die so quickly, otherwise some actions would have been done before...
73s Peter DB2OS
Gordon JC Pearce wrote:
On Mon, 2009-10-12 at 03:24 -0400, Luc Leblanc wrote:
40 back, we will. If the voltage is clamped low and there is no other damage, we may end up waiting a long time for a cell to "open", hopefully not as long as for AO-07. ..or it may happen today. No success for even weeks or months does not mean that we won't eventually be successful.
On a more practical note, could there be some sort of failsafe "battery went phut so disconnect it" device? I'm guessing a perfectly ordinary inline fuse would be too simple, but perhaps some sort of mechanical latch that would just pop the battery terminal if it lost power would work.
Gordon MM0YEQ
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participants (10)
-
Bob- W7LRD -
George Henry -
Gordon JC Pearce -
jari.koivurinne＠aina.net -
Larry -
Luc Leblanc -
Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF -
Peter Guelzow -
Rocky Jones -
Stefan Wagener