Re: [amsat-bb] ISS ping box (now PBBS)
Andrew, What you should be doing is try using the onboard packet BBS.
WHAT?!!! NO!!!
Packet BBS operation via space was proved to be entirely inoperable, impossible total congestion,, inefficient, impractical, wasteful and discunctional use of packet via satllites 20 years ago. That is why all operation now uses single packet exchanges using UNPROTO or UI packets and why UI messaging was invented.
All it takes is one person to try to log on, and then the ENTIRE PASS is lost to retries and retries and retries. Nothing is accomplished, and rarely if ever does anyone even get logged on. It is an abomination to even think about using the ISS BBS.
That way people could read and send you messages. As you're in a low use ISS area this would be ideal for you and other ISS users...
Oops... nevermind... I see you are on an island thousands of miles from any Ham Radio density...
But again, this will ONLY work over Hawaii, or Australia, or South Africa or other areas where packet ISS usage is so low as to be non-existant. In those places, yes, it would be a fun experiment. BUT ONLY UNTIL others heard about it. Then it would be the same ole' "tradgedy of the commons"... (google it)... Everybody tries and it fails for everyone....
And a disaster if anyone tried it over the USA or Europe.
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message-----
If you're the only station out there, then what's the point of
transmitting at all?
Sadly, there are people who connect to the packet BBS regularly over the USA. It jams up the channel with REJ packets from AOS to LOS. Those people probably don't read anything published here on AMSAT-BB.
73 Clayton W5PFG
On 9/22/2016 13:11, Robert Bruninga wrote:
All it takes is one person to try to log on, and then the ENTIRE PASS is lost to retries and retries and retries. Nothing is accomplished, and rarely if ever does anyone even get logged on. It is an abomination to even think about using the ISS BBS.
Oops... nevermind... I see you are on an island thousands of miles from any Ham Radio density...
But again, this will ONLY work over Hawaii, or Australia, or South Africa or other areas where packet ISS usage is so low as to be non-existant. In those places, yes, it would be a fun experiment. BUT ONLY UNTIL others heard about it. Then it would be the same ole' "tradgedy of the commons"... (google it)... Everybody tries and it fails for everyone....
Sounds a lot like the uproar that was being said about the pactor unattended system on HF bands. even if it was in its own "auto forwarding sub band.
On 9/22/2016 2:40 PM, Clayton W5PFG wrote:
Sadly, there are people who connect to the packet BBS regularly over the USA. It jams up the channel with REJ packets from AOS to LOS. Those people probably don't read anything published here on AMSAT-BB.
Actually, using the BBS on the ISS is worse. With unattended operation on HF, you're only causing congestion when transmitting. With the BBS, once you connect you "own" the entire packet system until you either log out or it times out. Given the difficulty of getting packets through (2-way) the ISS, the chances of successfully talking to the BBS and successfully logging out are next to nil, so when the station goes out of range the system is dead to everyone for many minutes.
Once upon a time, the Mir station's BBS actually worked. But that environment is long gone.
Greg KO6TH
John Becker wrote:
Sounds a lot like the uproar that was being said about the pactor unattended system on HF bands. even if it was in its own "auto forwarding sub band.
On 9/22/2016 2:40 PM, Clayton W5PFG wrote:
Sadly, there are people who connect to the packet BBS regularly over the USA. It jams up the channel with REJ packets from AOS to LOS. Those people probably don't read anything published here on AMSAT-BB.
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
What would be required (from the point of view of paper work, logistics, approvals, etc.) to replace the current ISS packet radio TNC by a device that would implement some more efficient digital communications? The device could be a digipeater, but employing strong FEC and a more modern modulation and framing structure and perhaps some better scheme for channel access. Perhaps something similar to ngham.
https://github.com/skagmo/ngham
With FEC and higher speed, we could accommodate many more users on a single pass. A dedicated software application on the ground would implement the modem and process information -- separating different types of messages in different screens, providing a chat like mode for real-time communications, automatically forwarding APRS packets, etc.
Am I day dreaming?
73, Edson PY2SDR
--- - We humans have the capability to do amazing things if we work together. - Nós seres humanos temos a capacidade de fazer coisas incríveis se trabalharmos juntos.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Andrew, What you should be doing is try using the onboard packet BBS.
WHAT?!!! NO!!!
Packet BBS operation via space was proved to be entirely inoperable, impossible total congestion,, inefficient, impractical, wasteful and discunctional use of packet via satllites 20 years ago. That is why all operation now uses single packet exchanges using UNPROTO or UI packets and why UI messaging was invented.
All it takes is one person to try to log on, and then the ENTIRE PASS is lost to retries and retries and retries. Nothing is accomplished, and rarely if ever does anyone even get logged on. It is an abomination to even think about using the ISS BBS.
That way people could read and send you messages. As you're in a low use ISS area this would be ideal for you and other ISS users...
Oops... nevermind... I see you are on an island thousands of miles from any Ham Radio density...
But again, this will ONLY work over Hawaii, or Australia, or South Africa or other areas where packet ISS usage is so low as to be non-existant. In those places, yes, it would be a fun experiment. BUT ONLY UNTIL others heard about it. Then it would be the same ole' "tradgedy of the commons"... (google it)... Everybody tries and it fails for everyone....
And a disaster if anyone tried it over the USA or Europe.
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message-----
If you're the only station out there, then what's the point of
transmitting at all? _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Like a space transponder ?
----------------------------- Sent from my iPhone Andrew Rich e vk4tec@tech-software.net w www.tech-software.net m 0419 738 223
On 23 Sep 2016, at 22:22, Edson W. R. Pereira ewpereira@gmail.com wrote:
What would be required (from the point of view of paper work, logistics, approvals, etc.) to replace the current ISS packet radio TNC by a device that would implement some more efficient digital communications? The device could be a digipeater, but employing strong FEC and a more modern modulation and framing structure and perhaps some better scheme for channel access. Perhaps something similar to ngham.
https://github.com/skagmo/ngham
With FEC and higher speed, we could accommodate many more users on a single pass. A dedicated software application on the ground would implement the modem and process information -- separating different types of messages in different screens, providing a chat like mode for real-time communications, automatically forwarding APRS packets, etc.
Am I day dreaming?
73, Edson PY2SDR
- We humans have the capability to do amazing things if we work together.
- Nós seres humanos temos a capacidade de fazer coisas incríveis se
trabalharmos juntos.
On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 3:11 PM, Robert Bruninga bruninga@usna.edu wrote:
Andrew, What you should be doing is try using the onboard packet BBS.
WHAT?!!! NO!!!
Packet BBS operation via space was proved to be entirely inoperable, impossible total congestion,, inefficient, impractical, wasteful and discunctional use of packet via satllites 20 years ago. That is why all operation now uses single packet exchanges using UNPROTO or UI packets and why UI messaging was invented.
All it takes is one person to try to log on, and then the ENTIRE PASS is lost to retries and retries and retries. Nothing is accomplished, and rarely if ever does anyone even get logged on. It is an abomination to even think about using the ISS BBS.
That way people could read and send you messages. As you're in a low use ISS area this would be ideal for you and other ISS users...
Oops... nevermind... I see you are on an island thousands of miles from any Ham Radio density...
But again, this will ONLY work over Hawaii, or Australia, or South Africa or other areas where packet ISS usage is so low as to be non-existant. In those places, yes, it would be a fun experiment. BUT ONLY UNTIL others heard about it. Then it would be the same ole' "tradgedy of the commons"... (google it)... Everybody tries and it fails for everyone....
And a disaster if anyone tried it over the USA or Europe.
Bob, WB4APR
-----Original Message-----
If you're the only station out there, then what's the point of
transmitting at all? _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
El 23/09/16 a las 14:22, Edson W. R. Pereira escribió:
What would be required (from the point of view of paper work, logistics, approvals, etc.) to replace the current ISS packet radio TNC by a device that would implement some more efficient digital communications? The device could be a digipeater, but employing strong FEC and a more modern modulation and framing structure and perhaps some better scheme for channel access. Perhaps something similar to ngham.
https://github.com/skagmo/ngham
With FEC and higher speed, we could accommodate many more users on a single pass. A dedicated software application on the ground would implement the modem and process information -- separating different types of messages in different screens, providing a chat like mode for real-time communications, automatically forwarding APRS packets, etc.
Am I day dreaming?
Hi Edson,
You're not daydreaming that much. The BEESAT satellites have a digipeater using the Mobitex-NX protocol, which has some form of FEC.
Many other satellites on the Amateur bands transmit telemetry using strong FEC. For instance, AAUSAT-4 uses an r=1/2, k=7 convolutional code and (255,223) Reed-Solomon with CCSDS scrambling.
Support and experimentation for these and many other protocols is very easy today using SDR.
73,
Dani.
There is already work being done to replace the old Ericsson HT with a customized Kenwood D710. Not sure what digital setup will be implemented.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 9:59 AM, Dani EA4GPZ daniel@destevez.net wrote:
El 23/09/16 a las 14:22, Edson W. R. Pereira escribió:
What would be required (from the point of view of paper work, logistics, approvals, etc.) to replace the current ISS packet radio TNC by a device that would implement some more efficient digital communications? The device could be a digipeater, but employing strong FEC and a more modern modulation and framing structure and perhaps some better scheme for channel access. Perhaps something similar to ngham.
https://github.com/skagmo/ngham
With FEC and higher speed, we could accommodate many more users on a single pass. A dedicated software application on the ground would implement the modem and process information -- separating different types of messages in different screens, providing a chat like mode for real-time communications, automatically forwarding APRS packets, etc.
Am I day dreaming?
Hi Edson,
You're not daydreaming that much. The BEESAT satellites have a digipeater using the Mobitex-NX protocol, which has some form of FEC.
Many other satellites on the Amateur bands transmit telemetry using strong FEC. For instance, AAUSAT-4 uses an r=1/2, k=7 convolutional code and (255,223) Reed-Solomon with CCSDS scrambling.
Support and experimentation for these and many other protocols is very easy today using SDR.
73,
Dani.
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hi Dani,
I have been following with great interest the commissioning of BEESAT and am looking forward to experiment with the digipeater onboard. Daniel, EA4GPZ, has implemented a very nice modem for BEESAT in gnuradio ( https://github.com/daniestevez/gr-satellites). I have tested it with some audio samples recorded by Jan, PE0SAT. It works very well.
It would be very nice if a similar type of experiment could replace the ancient AX.25 digipeater onboard the ISS.
73, Edson PY2SDR
--- - We humans have the capability to do amazing things if we work together. - Nós seres humanos temos a capacidade de fazer coisas incríveis se trabalharmos juntos.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Dani EA4GPZ daniel@destevez.net wrote:
El 23/09/16 a las 14:22, Edson W. R. Pereira escribió:
What would be required (from the point of view of paper work, logistics, approvals, etc.) to replace the current ISS packet radio TNC by a device that would implement some more efficient digital communications? The
device
could be a digipeater, but employing strong FEC and a more modern modulation and framing structure and perhaps some better scheme for
channel
access. Perhaps something similar to ngham.
https://github.com/skagmo/ngham
With FEC and higher speed, we could accommodate many more users on a
single
pass. A dedicated software application on the ground would implement the modem and process information -- separating different types of messages
in
different screens, providing a chat like mode for real-time
communications,
automatically forwarding APRS packets, etc.
Am I day dreaming?
Hi Edson,
You're not daydreaming that much. The BEESAT satellites have a digipeater using the Mobitex-NX protocol, which has some form of FEC.
Many other satellites on the Amateur bands transmit telemetry using strong FEC. For instance, AAUSAT-4 uses an r=1/2, k=7 convolutional code and (255,223) Reed-Solomon with CCSDS scrambling.
Support and experimentation for these and many other protocols is very easy today using SDR.
73,
Dani.
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
One of my missions is to get gnu radio running on my Mac
I have airspy RTLSDR and perhaps lime SDR
Andrew
----------------------------- Sent from my iPhone Andrew Rich e vk4tec@tech-software.net w www.tech-software.net m 0419 738 223
On 24 Sep 2016, at 02:52, Edson W. R. Pereira ewpereira@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Dani,
I have been following with great interest the commissioning of BEESAT and am looking forward to experiment with the digipeater onboard. Daniel, EA4GPZ, has implemented a very nice modem for BEESAT in gnuradio ( https://github.com/daniestevez/gr-satellites). I have tested it with some audio samples recorded by Jan, PE0SAT. It works very well.
It would be very nice if a similar type of experiment could replace the ancient AX.25 digipeater onboard the ISS.
73, Edson PY2SDR
- We humans have the capability to do amazing things if we work together.
- Nós seres humanos temos a capacidade de fazer coisas incríveis se
trabalharmos juntos.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 10:59 AM, Dani EA4GPZ daniel@destevez.net wrote:
El 23/09/16 a las 14:22, Edson W. R. Pereira escribió: What would be required (from the point of view of paper work, logistics, approvals, etc.) to replace the current ISS packet radio TNC by a device that would implement some more efficient digital communications? The
device
could be a digipeater, but employing strong FEC and a more modern modulation and framing structure and perhaps some better scheme for
channel
access. Perhaps something similar to ngham.
https://github.com/skagmo/ngham
With FEC and higher speed, we could accommodate many more users on a
single
pass. A dedicated software application on the ground would implement the modem and process information -- separating different types of messages
in
different screens, providing a chat like mode for real-time
communications,
automatically forwarding APRS packets, etc.
Am I day dreaming?
Hi Edson,
You're not daydreaming that much. The BEESAT satellites have a digipeater using the Mobitex-NX protocol, which has some form of FEC.
Many other satellites on the Amateur bands transmit telemetry using strong FEC. For instance, AAUSAT-4 uses an r=1/2, k=7 convolutional code and (255,223) Reed-Solomon with CCSDS scrambling.
Support and experimentation for these and many other protocols is very easy today using SDR.
73,
Dani.
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (8)
-
Andrew Rich -
Clayton W5PFG -
Dani EA4GPZ -
Edson W. R. Pereira -
Greg D -
John Becker -
John Brier -
Robert Bruninga