Dave,
It is obvious that there is a whole generation of Leo-FM sat users that are clueless of what ham radio on a Heo linear-tranponder is like. Although it must be harder than a cell phone since so many cannot seem to figure out how to operate on the Leos...I would say it is not "much" harder than using the local repeater.
I offer an analogy: Compare all the ham radio contacts that are done on HF with the same number of folks trying to talk thru a single FM repeater! First it cannot be done; second the attempt results in total chaos with "big fish" eating the little fishes!
I am waiting for the next Heo and hoping it survives better than the last one.
73 Ed - KL7UW
At 12:31 PM 5/14/2008, Dave Guimont wrote:
John, the operation of FM voice satellites is a travesty for ham radio...
I've been licensed for 57 years, on amateur satellites for 33 years (Oscar 7) and the FM voice operation is the most ridiculous aberration I've witnessed in all of amateur radio...Pandemonium exists here also!!
It is pretty obvious NO COMMUNICATION exists on AO51, all of their communication is on here. Why do they bother to turn the radio on???
Many of us attended AMSAT a lot conventions in an attempt to discourage throwing that money "down the tubes" on FM voice, to no avail. Someone had an "ax to grind", and several of the existing "powers that be" in AMSAT-NA told me to "mind my own business". They were obviously the "ax grinders".
FM voice on the amateur satellites is about equal to the same degree of difficulty as a cell phone operation!
No wonder our membership is deteriorating.
Ancient AO7 and present VO52 hopefully are keeping some interest, until Europe launches P3E....
That's where my donations go.....
At 10:14 AM 5/13/2008, you wrote:
In 17 years of satellite operating - and literally thousands of QSO's, I'm proud of the fact that I have actually had 2 - (that's two, folks) - QSO's on FM. I believe the last one was W3SM/OE on AO-27 about 10 years ago.
For want of something better to do today I went outside with my arrow aerial, a MYCOM handheld scanner and a little IC-E91 (also handheld) to have a listen to AO-51 ... (I've heard it described
as a "zoo").
I monitored the 16:15Z pass over Russia/LA/Europe/UK and what I heard can only be described as the worst operating I've heard in 41 years of radio.
I also sincerely hope that the standard of operating (read: disipline/ proceedure) is better in North America than it is in Europe - actually, I've listened via N1DID and Echolink, as well as the promo video so I know it is.
73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1@san.rr.com Disagree: I learn.... Pulling for P3E...
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It is obvious that there is a whole generation of Leo-FM sat users that are clueless of what ham radio on a Heo linear-tranponder is like. Although it must be harder than a cell phone since so many cannot seem to figure out how to operate on the Leos...I would say it is not "much" harder than using the local repeater.
I offer an analogy: Compare all the ham radio contacts that are done on HF with the same number of folks trying to talk thru a single FM repeater! First it cannot be done; second the attempt results in total chaos with "big fish" eating the little fishes!
I am waiting for the next Heo and hoping it survives better than the last one.
Tnx, Ed....
I've received dozens of responses similar to yours...
I just hope AMASAT-NA is not "down the tubes" as is AO-51
73, Dave, WB6LLO dguimon1@san.rr.com
Disagree: I learn....
Pulling for P3E...
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Edward Cole wrote:
| It is obvious that there is a whole generation of Leo-FM sat users | that are clueless of what ham radio on a Heo linear-tranponder is | like. Although it must be harder than a cell phone since so many | cannot seem to figure out how to operate on the Leos...I would say it | is not "much" harder than using the local repeater.
Remember folks, if it isn't hard, we obviously shouldn't be encouraging it.
| I offer an analogy: Compare all the ham radio contacts that are done | on HF with the same number of folks trying to talk thru a single FM | repeater! First it cannot be done; second the attempt results in | total chaos with "big fish" eating the little fishes!
First, it can be done and it is done. Yes, on FM sats (and if everyone on HF was on a sindle channel) you can rarely have extended QSOs beyond call sign and grid square, but it can work, and it does work. AO-51's popularity proves that.
Also, if only "big fishes" work AO-51, there wouldn't be QRP or portable stations there. That is certainly not the case. I've done QSOs on AO-51 @ 5W into a mag-mount on my car. It worked fine.
- -- Ben Jackson - N1WBV - New Bedford, MA bbj <at> innismir.net - http://www.innismir.net/
Since everyone else is I might as well throw my 2 cents worth in here. I would guess that the OP is a fairly well established person and is able to afford all the fancy equipment that goes into making a top notch station for the linear birds. Good for him! I have no problem with people who can as long as you consider that the best some of us can afford is a simple FM transceiver and a few homebrew antennas to access the birds. So the way I see it either we need more fm birds to reduce the load or we need a way for more of us to be able to use the ssb sats -Steve VA3SAX
Ed, You're partially right in my case, I don't have first hand experience on an HEO but I wouldn't call myself clueless about what it's like. I've spent many a happy evening researching in books and surfing the web reading about the glory days of AO-40 and some info on AO-13 as well. I'm slowly but surely trying to accquire everything I will need for P3E. It's a slow process on my budget but I'm getting there. No one could possibly want to see it launched and to succeed anymore than I do. All that being said, I like the FM sats, I think they are fun and that they are a challenge. I don't like seeing them being criticized here and really don't understand why it has to happen. I've joked about this before but sooner or later, there will be a model of AO-51 available, if some people don't like FM sats, they should get one and throw darts at it! ;-) lol As far as the next HEO surviving I will say this about AO-40, I wasn't a member of AMSAT back then but from all my research and reading I've come to the conclusion that AMSAT made a serious error in judgement in building such a big complex satellite and "putting all their eggs in one basket" so to speak. Seems like we are still reeling somewhat from it's loss, even to this day. The money and time might have been better spent on a couple of smaller less complex HEO birds or one HEO and one LEO along the lines os of AO-7. Of course hindsight is 20-20 isn't it? 73, Michael, W4HIJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Cole" kl7uw@acsalaska.net To: "Dave Guimont" dguimon1@san.rr.com; la2qaa@amsat.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 10:05 PM Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Organised Chaos.
Dave,
It is obvious that there is a whole generation of Leo-FM sat users that are clueless of what ham radio on a Heo linear-tranponder is like. Although it must be harder than a cell phone since so many cannot seem to figure out how to operate on the Leos...I would say it is not "much" harder than using the local repeater.
I offer an analogy: Compare all the ham radio contacts that are done on HF with the same number of folks trying to talk thru a single FM repeater! First it cannot be done; second the attempt results in total chaos with "big fish" eating the little fishes!
I am waiting for the next Heo and hoping it survives better than the last one.
73 Ed - KL7UW
participants (5)
-
Ben Jackson -
Dave Guimont -
Edward Cole -
Michael Tondee -
Steve Attfield