Had not members contributed to AMSAT back in the early to mid 1970s there would probably not even be an AMSAT today! So soon people forget their roots!

As for what I have personally contributed to AMSAT lately? Obviously you haven't read the September/October 2009 issue of the AMSAT Journal! Therein you will find an article on becoming a volunteer written by me.

Not every AMSAT member has discretionary funds to contribute to the organization and quite a number of the early life members are now retired and, like myself, living on basically "fixed" incomes. My wife and I are not "destitute", but we definitely have to budget our money.

Looking at your biography page on QRZ.com I see that you have been licensed for a little over 15 years. Also, looking at your photograph posted on QRZ.com, I see that you have a "fair" number of years remaining in the workforce before entering the world of the retired. As such, you obviously have a "fair amount" of discretionary funds (since you have posted your relationship to the ARRL and that you are a "benefactor" of AMSAT reinforces this) which allows you to make financial contributions. That is fine.

When I became a life member I was gainfully employed and was definitely "above average" in income. In fact, I was gainfully employed until 2002 when I "acquired" rheumatoid arthritis and became fully disabled. I have been "fighting" with a major insurance company for the benefits that they are supposed to be paying me and this has been ongoing for almost 8 years. Fortunately, Social Security agreed that I was disabled and has been paying me for close to 7 years. What Social Security is paying is definitely less than what I would be paid by the private insurance company, but it is at least "something". Starting next month I will "officially" not be disabled but then "retired". Although my wife and I receive payments that are much higher than what the average person gets from Social Security, the total amount received is considerably less than when I was employed.

Considering that the majority of retirees are receiving considerably less money every month that what my wife and I receive, it is pretty easy to see that those persons have a very hard time "making it" on a daily basis. Those persons, when gainfully employed, generally did have at least some discretionary funds and could, if desired, contribute financially to AMSAT. Today, things are very different.

It is the same with a lot of younger members who have lost their jobs. Those persons are in no condition to contribute financially to AMSAT. Yet you seem to think that the ability to give money is what is important.

There are those life members who have been "around" for a "while" who do have both the skills and the time to contribute to AMSAT as volunteers. However, there are also life members who no longer have the physical ability which would allow them to "contribute" as volunteers today. According to your way of "thinking", those persons should just be eliminated, forgetting the role that those same people have played in the past, because they no longer are in a position to contribute financially.

At least in my opinion, such actions are very wrong! Without the financial support that those life members contributed in the past AMSAT would definitely NOT be the organization that it is today. In fact, there is a very good chance that the organization would not have survived the 40 years that is has. Frankly, I sincerely wonder what your "position" is going to be when you are retired, out of a job, or some similar situation.

Glen, K9STH

Website: http://k9sth.com

--- On Sun, 1/17/10, Clint Bradford clintbrad4d@earthlink.net wrote:

... my $50 membership thirty years ago is worth $1,000,000 in 2010 dollars ...

All moot, of course. Your fifty bucks contributed years ago was exactly that - and nothing else - period. It was used back then - and any comparison to what it is worth today is valueless.

"What have you done for AMSAT recently?" - is a much more appropriate discussion.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS AMSAT President's Club member - for each of the past few years AMSAT benefactor

Clint Bradford wrote:

...

...

... my $50 membership thirty years ago is worth $1,000,000 in 2010 dollars ...

All moot, of course. Your fifty bucks contributed years ago was exactly that - and nothing else - period. It was used back then - and any comparison to what it is worth today is valueless.

"What have you done for AMSAT recently?" - is a much more appropriate discussion.

I mean you no offense, but you miss the point completely.

Of course, it is impossible to say with certainty what would have happened, it is pretty clear to me that without some very early members who thought well enough of the organization to contribute the additional money required to gain a life membership it is entirely possible, likely even, that AMSAT is a going entity wouldn't exist. Raising funds for a new organization, one without any track record, with lofty goals is hard enough in the best of times, and it becomes impossible without some sort of seed money, and seed money is always in short supply.

With that in mind, I believe that, when put to an early life member, it is entirely reasonable to respond to your question "What have you done for AMSAT recently" with "I have made it possible for you to make your contribution." I am not saying this to diminish your contributions (which I admit entirely put mine to shame) but to put them in perspective. It is a far different thing to help get something like AMSAT off the ground, and activity something I have some experience with, than it is to contribute to AMSAT with it's rich 40 year history. That makes early contributions worth far more than their absolute value even in constant dollars.

When put to someone who bought his or her life membership much later, it is entirely appropriate to respond that purchasing a life membership gains an organization more money than buying an annual membership. It is appropriate because it is entirely true. Organizations do not offer lifetime memberships because certain of their members are so cheap they insist upon it. Instead, they offer them because it makes a great deal of business sense for them to do so. Not only do you lose the nontrivial administrative costs of billing and processing a payment every year, but you also gain positives like a predictable circulation for your newsletter (always good for selling ads) and the ability to invest the money, which you can't do with what you get from annual memberships.

As far as the AUP goes, I have viewed this whole debate as something like a teapot-sized tempest. I read the AUP when it was first announced, and my perspective was probably a little bit different than most readers because in the 1990's I had a chance to draft a similar policy for an organization I was part of. That was an interesting experience in figuring out how to do the most good for the most people. I think AMSAT did a pretty good job with what they came up with. The guidelines are mostly positive ("here's what we want to see") and the things that are forbidden are those that are, in my opinion, frankly indefensible. You can still talk smack about the BoD and complain that AMSAT's efforts are wrongly directed just like you've been able to since whenever this thing started. I can't imagine that the BoD thinks the AUP will protect them from harsh criticism. Instead, I think they're hoping to make amsat-bb more useful and, with some luck, less embarrassing.

The thing is, you can still get into battles with those who tend to get under your skin, and you know who they are, and your best bet for dealing with those people will be, as it has always been, to let them have their say and ignore them the best you can. My rule is, "Don't repeat yourself." If you don't have anything new to add to an discussion, then remaining silent is always good and nobody sees that as agreement. Of course, thanks to Usenet, I have a very powerful ignore reflex, so it may not be possible for everyone to take that advice.

It will remain to be seen if the moderators have the courage to do their job well. I've also done that, and it's harder than you think.

That's juts one opinion, worth what you paid for it.

!DSPAM:117,4b538639187032152248392!

All moot, of course. Your fifty bucks contributed years ago was exactly that - and nothing else - period. It was used back then - and any comparison to what it is worth today is valueless.

"What have you done for AMSAT recently?" - is a much more appropriate discussion.

Clint Bradford, K6LCS AMSAT President's Club member - for each of the past few years AMSAT benefactor

If that is the case if it was used and then it is "done" then that was sheer incompetence.

Robert WB5MZO Life member _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/