Best HT for satellite operation?
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a loaded questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one less hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this via PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my HT's on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by using a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and HT - isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what HAM Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a loaded questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one less hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this via PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my HT's on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by using a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Dear friends
Do not forget the yaesu FT-51R, works perfect in full duplex mode.
73 de Luis
EC4TR
El 10/03/2017 a las 0:45, Paul Stoetzer escribió:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a loaded questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one less hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this via PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my HT's on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by using a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Even the $30 Baofengs support cross-band memories for sat operations. That's how I started, but as Paul said, half-duplex on FM should not be condoned now, especially as our FM birds get more and more crowded and it becomes just an additional source of QRM.
I've been very happy with my D72A. Packet is a nice feature to have to work ISS and NO-84.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a loaded questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one less hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this via PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my HT's on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by using a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a loaded questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one less hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this via PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my HT's on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by using a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
My FT-530 most certainly does true full duplex on mode B and mode J. You must be misinformed on the features of these HT's.
Cheers & 73, Tucker W4FS
On Mar 9, 2017 6:55 PM, "Gabriel Zeifman" gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
Even the $30 Baofengs support cross-band memories for sat operations. That's how I started, but as Paul said, half-duplex on FM should not be condoned now, especially as our FM birds get more and more crowded and it becomes just an additional source of QRM.
I've been very happy with my D72A. Packet is a nice feature to have to work ISS and NO-84.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a loaded questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one less hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this via PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my
HT's
on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by
using
a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and
HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what
HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a loaded questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one less hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this via PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my
HT's
on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by
using
a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and
HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what
HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
_______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I find it annoying that lots of the American HT's don't support cross-band channels. For sure, not the new Icoms, don't think the TH-F6, but all Chinese radios I have played with will do split band channels.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com wrote:
My FT-530 most certainly does true full duplex on mode B and mode J. You must be misinformed on the features of these HT's.
Cheers & 73, Tucker W4FS
On Mar 9, 2017 6:55 PM, "Gabriel Zeifman" gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
Even the $30 Baofengs support cross-band memories for sat operations. That's how I started, but as Paul said, half-duplex on FM should not be condoned now, especially as our FM birds get more and more crowded and it becomes just an additional source of QRM.
I've been very happy with my D72A. Packet is a nice feature to have to work ISS and NO-84.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a
loaded
questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one
less
hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this
via
PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my
HT's
on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by
using
a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and
HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what
HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a
loaded
questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one
less
hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this
via
PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my
HT's
on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by
using
a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and
HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what
HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
FT-51 will do full duplex on satellite. Duplexer isolation leaves much to be desired. Moderately usable on AO-51. Useless on SO-50, though.
I vote for the FT-50 and FT-51. Personally use both.
Norm n3ykf<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /> <table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;"> <tr> <td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank"><img src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;" /></a></td> <td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virus-free. <a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail" target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a> </td> </tr> </table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div>
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 8:07 PM, Skyler F electricity440@gmail.com wrote:
I find it annoying that lots of the American HT's don't support cross-band channels. For sure, not the new Icoms, don't think the TH-F6, but all Chinese radios I have played with will do split band channels.
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com wrote:
My FT-530 most certainly does true full duplex on mode B and mode J. You must be misinformed on the features of these HT's.
Cheers & 73, Tucker W4FS
On Mar 9, 2017 6:55 PM, "Gabriel Zeifman" gabrielzeifman@gmail.com wrote:
Even the $30 Baofengs support cross-band memories for sat operations. That's how I started, but as Paul said, half-duplex on FM should not be condoned now, especially as our FM birds get more and more crowded and it becomes just an additional source of QRM.
I've been very happy with my D72A. Packet is a nice feature to have to work ISS and NO-84.
73, Gabe NJ7H
On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a
loaded
questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one
less
hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this
via
PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my
HT's
on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by
using
a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and
HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what
HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 9, 2017, at 5:45 PM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
You are simply wrong. The Kenwood TH-D72, D7, D7(G) as well as the Yaesu FT-470 and FT-530 all are excellent full-duplex HTs with no desense.
It appears you are suggesting that people operate half-duplex. That can work somewhat, but is definitely not something I would ever recommend.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 18:25 Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB <
amsat-bb@amsat.org>
wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a
loaded
questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Nest shoot for - What dual-band HT can program SAT offsets (in the SAME single memory)? My definition: in one memory can program both 2m-RX AND 70cm-PTT or vice-versa. Why: you only need say 4 or 5 memories per SAT for AOS/LOS OPs - one
less
hand needed and far less hassle. I know Yaesu and Wuoxon can do this
via
PC Program. Kwood TH-F6, Icom IC-91/T8, Alinco G7 cannot they can do it only via flipping the A/B Bands (pain in the butt) - they do not allow cross band offsets in memory.
Now another BAD issue with Yeasu & Wuoxun is they both have a high discharge rate of battery when in the OFF state. I found if I leave my
HT's
on the shelf for +60days I must isolate the battery for the radio to eliminate wasteful discharging dropp[ing a B-Meter bar. I do this by
using
a 'paper' business-card cut it to size, sandwich between the battery and
HT
- isolating the battery contacts. Easy, simple, effective, cheap - what
HAM
Radio is all about.
Best regards, Dale Kubichek, MS-EET, N6JSX Sidney, OH 45365 EN70vh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HAM-SATs http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RDF-USA _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions
expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
-- Skyler Fennell amsatnet.info KDØWHB electricity440@gmail.com _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Kuby,
When was the last time you were on the satellites? I had a Yaesu FT-51R that was full duplex. I could transmit and hear the downlink of the satellite simultaneously. The Kenwood D72 and the D7 also do it, or are you going to toss some engineering stuff at us to say it's not so?
Dave-KB1PVH
Sent from my Galaxy S7
On Mar 9, 2017 6:25 PM, "Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB" amsat-bb@amsat.org wrote:
Message: 10 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2017 14:17:14 -0500 From: Tucker McGuire tucker@mcguireland.com To: Andrew Glasbrenner glasbrenner@mindspring.com Cc: "amsat-bb@amsat.org" amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Best HT for satellite operation? This is a loaded questions and every HAM I've ever met has opinions... It is better to ask what HT's fit SAT OPs functionality:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Dale,
As has been pointed out, there have been many HTs over the years that allow for cross-band full-duplex operation. This was actually a more common feature in the 1990s, and has gradually disappeared from HTs since then. A few years ago, Andrew KE5GDB had a list of HTs and other radios that supported cross-band full-duplex operation on his web site. That web page is gone, but lives on in the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090724094403/http://www. thathamkid.com/website/ham-radio/full-duplex-radios
For HTs, you could add the TH-D72 to this list, which came out at the end of 2010.
In addition to those HTs, there are a few others that allow for cross-band full-duplex operation in one direction, where you are transmitting on 70cm and listening on 2m. I wrote a bit about a few of the Chinese-made HTs that are able to work AO-85 full- duplex in a series of posts here on the -BB in late 2015. One message I posted in December 2015 that had links to the other posts I made about those radios is available at:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2015-December/056269.html
The 70cm receivers in these Chinese-made HTs suffer from desense whenever you transmit on 2m. These radios can be programmed with groups of memory channels to work V/U FM satellites like SO-50 half-duplex, or you could use the two VFOs to do that without the need to program memory channels.
Using separate radios for uplink and downlink is also a good way to have a full-duplex setup. Many have even used a pair of the inexpensive Baofeng-type HTs to have a station capable of full- duplex operation, or one Baofeng-type radio paired with an HT from one of the traditional ham manufacturers.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
I've used two Baofengs to work SO-50, and the V transmission from one still desenses the U reception in the other one, even though they are two separate radios.
Do I put low-pass filter in the transmission line to squash that third harmonic?
Steve AI9IN
On 2017-03-10 12:36, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Dale,
As has been pointed out, there have been many HTs over the years that allow for cross-band full-duplex operation. This was actually a more common feature in the 1990s, and has gradually disappeared from HTs since then. A few years ago, Andrew KE5GDB had a list of HTs and other radios that supported cross-band full-duplex operation on his web site. That web page is gone, but lives on in the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090724094403/http://www. thathamkid.com/website/ham-radio/full-duplex-radios
For HTs, you could add the TH-D72 to this list, which came out at the end of 2010.
In addition to those HTs, there are a few others that allow for cross-band full-duplex operation in one direction, where you are transmitting on 70cm and listening on 2m. I wrote a bit about a few of the Chinese-made HTs that are able to work AO-85 full- duplex in a series of posts here on the -BB in late 2015. One message I posted in December 2015 that had links to the other posts I made about those radios is available at:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2015-December/056269.html
The 70cm receivers in these Chinese-made HTs suffer from desense whenever you transmit on 2m. These radios can be programmed with groups of memory channels to work V/U FM satellites like SO-50 half-duplex, or you could use the two VFOs to do that without the need to program memory channels.
Using separate radios for uplink and downlink is also a good way to have a full-duplex setup. Many have even used a pair of the inexpensive Baofeng-type HTs to have a station capable of full- duplex operation, or one Baofeng-type radio paired with an HT from one of the traditional ham manufacturers.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
That should work, though it may not be enough depending on the front end of the other Baofeng.
You may find you need to use a receiver with a better front end to eliminate desense, or two filters.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 1:21 PM, skristof@etczone.com wrote:
I've used two Baofengs to work SO-50, and the V transmission from one still desenses the U reception in the other one, even though they are two separate radios.
Do I put low-pass filter in the transmission line to squash that third harmonic?
Steve AI9IN
On 2017-03-10 12:36, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Dale,
As has been pointed out, there have been many HTs over the years that allow for cross-band full-duplex operation. This was actually a more common feature in the 1990s, and has gradually disappeared from HTs since then. A few years ago, Andrew KE5GDB had a list of HTs and other radios that supported cross-band full-duplex operation on his web site. That web page is gone, but lives on in the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090724094403/http://www. thathamkid.com/website/ham-radio/full-duplex-radios
For HTs, you could add the TH-D72 to this list, which came out at the end of 2010.
In addition to those HTs, there are a few others that allow for cross-band full-duplex operation in one direction, where you are transmitting on 70cm and listening on 2m. I wrote a bit about a few of the Chinese-made HTs that are able to work AO-85 full- duplex in a series of posts here on the -BB in late 2015. One message I posted in December 2015 that had links to the other posts I made about those radios is available at:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2015-December/056269.html
The 70cm receivers in these Chinese-made HTs suffer from desense whenever you transmit on 2m. These radios can be programmed with groups of memory channels to work V/U FM satellites like SO-50 half-duplex, or you could use the two VFOs to do that without the need to program memory channels.
Using separate radios for uplink and downlink is also a good way to have a full-duplex setup. Many have even used a pair of the inexpensive Baofeng-type HTs to have a station capable of full- duplex operation, or one Baofeng-type radio paired with an HT from one of the traditional ham manufacturers.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
You may also want to consider adjusting your power level. SO-50 can be worked with very little power and this may help with your desense.
73
Mike Diehl - AI6GS
On Mar 10, 2017, at 10:23 AM, Paul Stoetzer n8hm@arrl.net wrote:
That should work, though it may not be enough depending on the front end of the other Baofeng.
You may find you need to use a receiver with a better front end to eliminate desense, or two filters.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 1:21 PM, skristof@etczone.com wrote:
I've used two Baofengs to work SO-50, and the V transmission from one still desenses the U reception in the other one, even though they are two separate radios.
Do I put low-pass filter in the transmission line to squash that third harmonic?
Steve AI9IN
On 2017-03-10 12:36, Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) wrote:
Dale,
As has been pointed out, there have been many HTs over the years that allow for cross-band full-duplex operation. This was actually a more common feature in the 1990s, and has gradually disappeared from HTs since then. A few years ago, Andrew KE5GDB had a list of HTs and other radios that supported cross-band full-duplex operation on his web site. That web page is gone, but lives on in the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine at:
http://web.archive.org/web/20090724094403/http://www. thathamkid.com/website/ham-radio/full-duplex-radios
For HTs, you could add the TH-D72 to this list, which came out at the end of 2010.
In addition to those HTs, there are a few others that allow for cross-band full-duplex operation in one direction, where you are transmitting on 70cm and listening on 2m. I wrote a bit about a few of the Chinese-made HTs that are able to work AO-85 full- duplex in a series of posts here on the -BB in late 2015. One message I posted in December 2015 that had links to the other posts I made about those radios is available at:
http://amsat.org/pipermail/amsat-bb/2015-December/056269.html
The 70cm receivers in these Chinese-made HTs suffer from desense whenever you transmit on 2m. These radios can be programmed with groups of memory channels to work V/U FM satellites like SO-50 half-duplex, or you could use the two VFOs to do that without the need to program memory channels.
Using separate radios for uplink and downlink is also a good way to have a full-duplex setup. Many have even used a pair of the inexpensive Baofeng-type HTs to have a station capable of full- duplex operation, or one Baofeng-type radio paired with an HT from one of the traditional ham manufacturers.
73!
Patrick WD9EWK/VA7EWK http://www.wd9ewk.net/ Twitter: @WD9EWK
On Thu, Mar 9, 2017 at 4:25 PM, Dale Kubichek via AMSAT-BB < amsat-bb@amsat.org> wrote:
Everyone wants 'full duplex', I've not seen a dual-band HT that can do 'real' RX while the PTT is pushed, period!
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership.
Opinions expressed
are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of
AMSAT-NA.
Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite
program!
Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (11)
-
Dale Kubichek -
Dave Webb KB1PVH -
EC4TR Luis -
Gabriel Zeifman -
Mike Diehl -
Norm n3ykf -
Patrick STODDARD (WD9EWK/VA7EWK) -
Paul Stoetzer -
skristof＠etczone.com -
Skyler F -
Tucker McGuire