On 2019-08-22 10:58, Frank Karnauskas via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Before anyone writes a check for a rented transponder, please consider sending your check to help keep the ARISS Outreach for Students program funded.
A total of $150,000 is needed to replace and upgrade the aging equipment on the ISS. After eight months, the amateur radio community has contributed only $33,000 of which $6,500 came from AMSAT-UK and another $6,000 came from AMSAT officers.
Frank-
I suspect that this will generate a plethora of responses, so I've changed the thread title.
Respectfully, I've considered the use case for ARISS, both now and in the past, and I don't see a huge value proposition. The equipment seems to be rarely used, as evidenced by the crowd-sourced data:
Even the AMSAT web page lists most of the services as "rarely used":
https://www.amsat.org/amateur-radio-on-the-iss/
It is important to have school outreach and get youngsters introduced to the hobby, but it seems that $150k isn't going to work for us 24/7/365 like a repeater or linear transponder. Imagine how cool it would be to say to students "Yes, we are going to bounce our signals off the ISS. An astronaut might also be around to say hello too!" at any time of the day or night?
If you told me that ARISS is going to put up a 5G/10G package on the ISS and open it up for near-continuous access (subject to power budget), I'd be the first to donate. However, if you are asking for a sizeable chunk of change that is used sporadically at the whim of whatever astronaut happens to be there, I can't see myself donating.
How can we get a more usable (and automatic) station on the ISS?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
A fair comment, Zach.
-----Original Message----- From: AMSAT-BB [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:44 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [amsat-bb] ARISS funding
On 2019-08-22 10:58, Frank Karnauskas via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Before anyone writes a check for a rented transponder, please consider sending your check to help keep the ARISS Outreach for Students program funded.
A total of $150,000 is needed to replace and upgrade the aging equipment on the ISS. After eight months, the amateur radio community has contributed only $33,000 of which $6,500 came from AMSAT-UK and another $6,000 came from AMSAT officers.
Frank-
I suspect that this will generate a plethora of responses, so I've changed the thread title.
Respectfully, I've considered the use case for ARISS, both now and in the past, and I don't see a huge value proposition. The equipment seems to be rarely used, as evidenced by the crowd-sourced data:
Even the AMSAT web page lists most of the services as "rarely used":
https://www.amsat.org/amateur-radio-on-the-iss/
It is important to have school outreach and get youngsters introduced to the hobby, but it seems that $150k isn't going to work for us 24/7/365
like a repeater or linear transponder. Imagine how cool it would be to
say to students "Yes, we are going to bounce our signals off the ISS. An astronaut might also be around to say hello too!" at any time of the day or night?
If you told me that ARISS is going to put up a 5G/10G package on the ISS and open it up for near-continuous access (subject to power budget), I'd be the first to donate. However, if you are asking for a sizeable chunk of change that is used sporadically at the whim of whatever astronaut happens to be there, I can't see myself donating.
How can we get a more usable (and automatic) station on the ISS?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
The Kenwood radios in the Russian service module are used for school contacts almost every week. Just check the "Upcoming ARISS Contact schedule" emails that go to this list.
You are right that, currently, ham equipment is not on and in use on every orbit, but it used to be. In the Columbus module there is an Erricson HT that was used for US and other non-Russian school contacts and also, the 145.825 digipeater. That used to be on whenever there wasn't a school contact, a docking/undocking, or some experiment that necessitated it being off. The reason it is listed as "rarely used" is because it's broken/on the fritz and that is the reason for the money request! The data you point to is not an indication of lack of usage, it's a symptom of the problem that keeps it from being used.
The money is needed for a new radio that would allow a similar situation, a (probably) usually on UHF/VHF crossband voice repeater in the form of a modified Kenwod TM-D710GA that the astronauts could jump onto. It will also do digipeating and SSTV.
The "rarely used" at least for the voice frequencies is to keep people from getting their hopes up to make a random unscheduled contact. Those are indeed rare, but even with the equipment we have now, it gets used and it affects thousands of students every year, not to mention hams. I'm sure someone from ARISS can speak to this, more accurately and better, than me.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 3:03 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
On 2019-08-22 10:58, Frank Karnauskas via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Before anyone writes a check for a rented transponder, please consider sending your check to help keep the ARISS Outreach for Students program funded.
A total of $150,000 is needed to replace and upgrade the aging equipment on the ISS. After eight months, the amateur radio community has contributed only $33,000 of which $6,500 came from AMSAT-UK and another $6,000 came from AMSAT officers.
Frank-
I suspect that this will generate a plethora of responses, so I've changed the thread title.
Respectfully, I've considered the use case for ARISS, both now and in the past, and I don't see a huge value proposition. The equipment seems to be rarely used, as evidenced by the crowd-sourced data:
Even the AMSAT web page lists most of the services as "rarely used":
https://www.amsat.org/amateur-radio-on-the-iss/
It is important to have school outreach and get youngsters introduced to the hobby, but it seems that $150k isn't going to work for us 24/7/365 like a repeater or linear transponder. Imagine how cool it would be to say to students "Yes, we are going to bounce our signals off the ISS. An astronaut might also be around to say hello too!" at any time of the day or night?
If you told me that ARISS is going to put up a 5G/10G package on the ISS and open it up for near-continuous access (subject to power budget), I'd be the first to donate. However, if you are asking for a sizeable chunk of change that is used sporadically at the whim of whatever astronaut happens to be there, I can't see myself donating.
How can we get a more usable (and automatic) station on the ISS?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Personally, I think the school contacts alone justify the ARISS program. Having amateur radio be a part of human spaceflight is an excellent way to promote the hobby.
But we need the new hardware to get the APRS system back full time. Watching the ISS fly over while working the APRS rig is a great experience.
Besides school contacts, there have been six SSTV events this year that have been very popular. Over 19 thousand reception reports were submitted from around the globe. 73, Will KW4WZ
On 8/22/19 3:39 PM, John Brier via AMSAT-BB wrote:
The Kenwood radios in the Russian service module are used for school contacts almost every week. Just check the "Upcoming ARISS Contact schedule" emails that go to this list.
You are right that, currently, ham equipment is not on and in use on every orbit, but it used to be. In the Columbus module there is an Erricson HT that was used for US and other non-Russian school contacts and also, the 145.825 digipeater. That used to be on whenever there wasn't a school contact, a docking/undocking, or some experiment that necessitated it being off. The reason it is listed as "rarely used" is because it's broken/on the fritz and that is the reason for the money request! The data you point to is not an indication of lack of usage, it's a symptom of the problem that keeps it from being used.
The money is needed for a new radio that would allow a similar situation, a (probably) usually on UHF/VHF crossband voice repeater in the form of a modified Kenwod TM-D710GA that the astronauts could jump onto. It will also do digipeating and SSTV.
The "rarely used" at least for the voice frequencies is to keep people from getting their hopes up to make a random unscheduled contact. Those are indeed rare, but even with the equipment we have now, it gets used and it affects thousands of students every year, not to mention hams. I'm sure someone from ARISS can speak to this, more accurately and better, than me.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
...
Zach,
I'm not sure how active you are, but there's a reason for the AMSAT Status page showing limited things from the ISS that is equipment is needing replacement.
Todo this of course requires money.
It's easy to look at the status and fire off an email saying what's the point but sometimes worth checking the facts.
73,
Peter, 2M0SQL
On Thu, 22 Aug 2019, 20:02 Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB, [email protected] wrote:
On 2019-08-22 10:58, Frank Karnauskas via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Before anyone writes a check for a rented transponder, please consider sending your check to help keep the ARISS Outreach for Students program funded.
A total of $150,000 is needed to replace and upgrade the aging equipment on the ISS. After eight months, the amateur radio community has contributed only $33,000 of which $6,500 came from AMSAT-UK and another $6,000 came from AMSAT officers.
Frank-
I suspect that this will generate a plethora of responses, so I've changed the thread title.
Respectfully, I've considered the use case for ARISS, both now and in the past, and I don't see a huge value proposition. The equipment seems to be rarely used, as evidenced by the crowd-sourced data:
Even the AMSAT web page lists most of the services as "rarely used":
https://www.amsat.org/amateur-radio-on-the-iss/
It is important to have school outreach and get youngsters introduced to the hobby, but it seems that $150k isn't going to work for us 24/7/365 like a repeater or linear transponder. Imagine how cool it would be to say to students "Yes, we are going to bounce our signals off the ISS. An astronaut might also be around to say hello too!" at any time of the day or night?
If you told me that ARISS is going to put up a 5G/10G package on the ISS and open it up for near-continuous access (subject to power budget), I'd be the first to donate. However, if you are asking for a sizeable chunk of change that is used sporadically at the whim of whatever astronaut happens to be there, I can't see myself donating.
How can we get a more usable (and automatic) station on the ISS?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 2019-08-22 15:46, Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) wrote:
It's easy to look at the status and fire off an email saying what's the point but sometimes worth checking the facts.
Hello Peter,
I've listened, live, to Frank et. al. give presentations at the last few Symposiums and am fairly familiar with the ARISS operational situation.
Yes, equipment breaks, even more so in space. ISS-rated equipment seems to cost a lot to certify, and I'm wondering; if, while they're at it, ARISS might go a little further and consider something that provides near 24/7/365 use for the amateur community, irrespective of the astronaut's busy schedules.
Perhaps we could share designs from the Fox/GOLF program and bolt a 1U cube to the outside of the ISS somewhere to provide this feature, without much incremental cost?
I don't feel bad "firing off an email" when the requested amount is in the six figure range...
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO
Hi Zach,
ARISS is of course, a distinct and separate organization from AMSAT, an international organization. AMSAT provides major support for ARISS both financial and engineering/hardware. The latter is a substantial contribution that, just as with any of the satellites we build, amounts to an equivalent sum of money that is probably greater than the financial support we give. A lot of money is saved in the design and testing/qualification of hardware, since it's done for "free".
The purpose of ARISS (Frank B. please stomp this if I am wrong) is about amateur radio support for ISS, which is primarily educational outreach just as that is one of the leading goals for gaining a launch of a CubeSat, and to provide backup communications for ISS just as we do with amateur radio public service on the ground. The opportunity for extras such as packet, repeaters, and QSOs with astronauts is achieved through the relationship ARISS and AMSAT have with NASA and the work done by volunteers to gain the extra antennas and hardware to have opportunities for the extras.
The Lunar Gateway project that ARISS is pursuing right now along with AMSAT worldwide is an example of the growth of these relationships, and we are working on designs to provide a lot of opportunities beyond what is on ISS and with much more availability. That is a humongous step in the direction of "hosted payloads" (I guess I could use "giant leap") and will provide much more daily plain old amateur radio access.
ARISS and ISS are "old" and we are blessed to have the opportunity we have with ISS. It grew from SAREX and at the current state of design of the also "old" ISS when the plans were incorporated, it was a big gain in access to space.
What is there now is not and will probably never be made into a Fox/GOLF/HEO/GEO type of amateur radio platform, and the intent with ARISS fundraising is solely for the activities for which the partnership came to be. Supporting ARISS is not the same as supporting GOLF or rent-a-GEO nor the same as funds that will be solicited for amateur radio on the Lunar Gateway. I donate to ARISS along with many other AMSAT members and officers not in hopes of it becoming more useful as a satellite so to speak, but for the educational outreach of amateur radio in space and the unique and obvious ADVERTISEMENT of amateur radio that comes with the school contacts. Please don't confuse or commingle discussions of ARISS fundraising with AMSAT fundraising and the proliferation of ham radio in space.
Thanks.
Jerry Buxton, NØJY
On 8/22/2019 12:43, Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB wrote:
On 2019-08-22 10:58, Frank Karnauskas via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Before anyone writes a check for a rented transponder, please consider sending your check to help keep the ARISS Outreach for Students program funded.
A total of $150,000 is needed to replace and upgrade the aging equipment on the ISS. After eight months, the amateur radio community has contributed only $33,000 of which $6,500 came from AMSAT-UK and another $6,000 came from AMSAT officers.
Frank-
I suspect that this will generate a plethora of responses, so I've changed the thread title.
Respectfully, I've considered the use case for ARISS, both now and in the past, and I don't see a huge value proposition. The equipment seems to be rarely used, as evidenced by the crowd-sourced data:
Even the AMSAT web page lists most of the services as "rarely used":
https://www.amsat.org/amateur-radio-on-the-iss/
It is important to have school outreach and get youngsters introduced to the hobby, but it seems that $150k isn't going to work for us 24/7/365 like a repeater or linear transponder. Imagine how cool it would be to say to students "Yes, we are going to bounce our signals off the ISS. An astronaut might also be around to say hello too!" at any time of the day or night?
If you told me that ARISS is going to put up a 5G/10G package on the ISS and open it up for near-continuous access (subject to power budget), I'd be the first to donate. However, if you are asking for a sizeable chunk of change that is used sporadically at the whim of whatever astronaut happens to be there, I can't see myself donating.
How can we get a more usable (and automatic) station on the ISS?
73,
--- Zach N0ZGO _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 2019-08-22 15:53, Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Please don't confuse or commingle discussions of ARISS fundraising with AMSAT fundraising and the proliferation of ham radio in space.
Jerry,
No confusion intended. I was simply responding to Frank's original email, sent to the AMSAT-BB reflector as a follow-up to Michelle's rent-a-GEO discussion.
Given a limited pool of dollars, I'd rather see those dollars go toward something that any licensed amateur can use on our allocated frequencies anytime it is visible.
--- Zach N0ZGO
The ISS digipeater historically has been a widely used resource that's available nearly all the time. Amateur radio stations on the ISS need to be turned off for EVAs, docking, and undocking, but other than that, the digipeater was pretty much enabled all the time the US segment radio was not in use.
Unfortunately, both the radio and packet module seem to have issues, which is why the new hardware is so desperately needed. The new hardware should also enable more frequent activation of the ISS FM voice repeater and more frequent SSTV events as well.
More broadly, I would note that AMSAT's vision statement has three separate clauses:
...to deploy satellite systems with the goal of providing wide-area and continuous coverage (Both GOLF and our work on the Lunar Gateway are working towards this goal) ...AMSAT will continue active participation in human space missions (ARISS - now leading to Lunar Gateway) ...and support a stream of LEO satellites developed in cooperation with the educational community and other amateur satellite groups (after Fox, the focus here is now the linear transponder system AMSAT is offering to university cubesat groups)
All of these are crucial to our goal of Keeping Amateur Radio in Space. I would note that without our participation in SAREX and ARISS over the decades, the opportunity for an amateur radio system on Lunar Gateway likely would not exist. The relationships that develop from our participation in a diverse set of missions help to lead to new and different opportunities.
73,
Paul, N8HM
On Thu, Aug 22, 2019 at 5:52 PM Zach Metzinger via AMSAT-BB [email protected] wrote:
On 2019-08-22 15:53, Jerry Buxton via AMSAT-BB wrote:
Please don't confuse or commingle discussions of ARISS fundraising with AMSAT fundraising and the proliferation of ham radio in space.
Jerry,
No confusion intended. I was simply responding to Frank's original email, sent to the AMSAT-BB reflector as a follow-up to Michelle's rent-a-GEO discussion.
Given a limited pool of dollars, I'd rather see those dollars go toward something that any licensed amateur can use on our allocated frequencies anytime it is visible.
--- Zach N0ZGO _______________________________________________ Sent via [email protected]. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: https://www.amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
participants (7)
-
Frank Karnauskas -
Jerry Buxton -
John Brier -
kw4wz＠amsat.org -
Paul Stoetzer -
Peter Goodhall (2M0SQL) -
Zach Metzinger