[Blog] Comparison of AMSAT and ARISS official statements about respective anomalies
Somebody said off-list they didn't understand the differences I was pointing out in the ARISS and AMSAT responses. I wrote a detailed comparison. I hope this explains what I mean.
https://spacecomms.wordpress.com/2021/01/30/comparison-of-amsat-and-ariss-of...
73, John Brier KG4AKV
John,
Bobcat-1 just passed over my QTH not long ago. I took my gear outside to see if I could hear anything... I also tracked objects RT/RU, which were both leading and trailing the pass... I couldn't pick anything up. Just finished draggin my gear in to see this email. So, since you replied to the -bb, here's my formal conclusion:
Time I spent with radio: 45 minutes Time I spent reading your blog: 0 minutes
Explanation: I maximized radio and minimized disgruntled email and tweet time.
Advice: Next time someone replies to you off the list about anything, do us (and the world) a favor and reply off the list.
Joseph Armbruster KJ4JIO
On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 11:12 PM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com wrote:
Somebody said off-list they didn't understand the differences I was pointing out in the ARISS and AMSAT responses. I wrote a detailed comparison. I hope this explains what I mean.
https://spacecomms.wordpress.com/2021/01/30/comparison-of-amsat-and-ariss-of...
73, John Brier KG4AKV
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
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I fail to understand why you believe your comparison to be the least bit valid?
The ARISS press release was time critical due to the fact that a school full of people were literally standing by to receive a call from the ISS that failed to take place. In addition, ARISS has additional scheduled events that may need to be re-scheduled due to the failure. Making some sort of statement quickly was necessary.
There was never an equivalent need to rush an announcement about the status of Fox 1E. I know many revel in conspiracy theories, but it’s pretty tough to “hide” a non-functional satellite from the community that helped launch it. Either this satellite will be recovered completely, partially, or it will eventually be declared dead.
(There’s even some precedence for life after death when it comes to our satellites…)
While the Engineering team continues attempts at recovery, I’m certain we will get periodic updates from them, but I’m equally certain there isn’t an accepted norm for how often or how quickly these should be made.
Jeff, KE9V
It is the least bit valid because it shows what is possible.
ARISS did not have to send a longer update quickly. They could have privately told the school with the failed contact (and future scheduled schools) details and left the larger community out of the loop. They could have even delayed confirming there was a problem publicly and officially. Additionally, they did not have to give specific examples of troubleshooting steps taken like having the crew take pics of the radio and coax connections, nor did they have to propose possible causes they might investigate. They did not have to tell us we will work through this and they would tell us more information as they gathered it. But they did. And AMSAT could have done similar things.
My reading of the ARISS message was that it wasn't written for the school, it was written for the ARISS and ham radio/SWL satellite community. I'm sure the school was communicated with privately in a two way conversation via their ARISS mentor so they could understand the various technical issues and future logistical issues for rescheduling. The communication could have started the morning before the contact, considering ARISS was already internally aware of possible issues. Certainly it happened immediately after the pass, and possibly during. All of which are times that were at least *eight* hours after the first official public communication of the issue. I am certain they didn't wait eight hours to tell the school about all the issues surrounding their failed contact.
I would argue there should have been more of a motivation to update the ham radio satellite community quickly about RadFxSat-2 than the ARISS failure, because RadFxSat2 was the launch of a satellite, which dozens of hams, maybe over a hundred, were following to the second via Twitter and the not-so-private live stream. RadFxSat-2's launch was also long delayed (2.5 years), it was the last Fox satellite of the series, and the only linear Fox satellite. This made the launch possibly more highly anticipated than all previous Fox satellite launches. Many of the dozens or possibly over a hundred hams watching the launch online were also listening for the satellite on every pass after the launch. On the contrary, ARISS contacts happen every other week or so and probably not more than a dozen were listening live, aside from all the school participants, of course.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 10:01 AM Jeff Davis, KE9V jeff@ke9v.net wrote:
I fail to understand why you believe your comparison to be the least bit valid?
The ARISS press release was time critical due to the fact that a school full of people were literally standing by to receive a call from the ISS that failed to take place. In addition, ARISS has additional scheduled events that may need to be re-scheduled due to the failure. Making some sort of statement quickly was necessary.
There was never an equivalent need to rush an announcement about the status of Fox 1E. I know many revel in conspiracy theories, but it’s pretty tough to “hide” a non-functional satellite from the community that helped launch it. Either this satellite will be recovered completely, partially, or it will eventually be declared dead.
(There’s even some precedence for life after death when it comes to our satellites…)
While the Engineering team continues attempts at recovery, I’m certain we will get periodic updates from them, but I’m equally certain there isn’t an accepted norm for how often or how quickly these should be made.
Jeff, KE9V
Sorry, I meant before, not after: "All of which are times that were at least *eight* hours _before_ the first official public communication of the issue.
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 10:50 AM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com wrote:
It is the least bit valid because it shows what is possible.
ARISS did not have to send a longer update quickly. They could have privately told the school with the failed contact (and future scheduled schools) details and left the larger community out of the loop. They could have even delayed confirming there was a problem publicly and officially. Additionally, they did not have to give specific examples of troubleshooting steps taken like having the crew take pics of the radio and coax connections, nor did they have to propose possible causes they might investigate. They did not have to tell us we will work through this and they would tell us more information as they gathered it. But they did. And AMSAT could have done similar things.
My reading of the ARISS message was that it wasn't written for the school, it was written for the ARISS and ham radio/SWL satellite community. I'm sure the school was communicated with privately in a two way conversation via their ARISS mentor so they could understand the various technical issues and future logistical issues for rescheduling. The communication could have started the morning before the contact, considering ARISS was already internally aware of possible issues. Certainly it happened immediately after the pass, and possibly during. All of which are times that were at least *eight* hours after the first official public communication of the issue. I am certain they didn't wait eight hours to tell the school about all the issues surrounding their failed contact.
I would argue there should have been more of a motivation to update the ham radio satellite community quickly about RadFxSat-2 than the ARISS failure, because RadFxSat2 was the launch of a satellite, which dozens of hams, maybe over a hundred, were following to the second via Twitter and the not-so-private live stream. RadFxSat-2's launch was also long delayed (2.5 years), it was the last Fox satellite of the series, and the only linear Fox satellite. This made the launch possibly more highly anticipated than all previous Fox satellite launches. Many of the dozens or possibly over a hundred hams watching the launch online were also listening for the satellite on every pass after the launch. On the contrary, ARISS contacts happen every other week or so and probably not more than a dozen were listening live, aside from all the school participants, of course.
73, John Brier KG4AKV
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 10:01 AM Jeff Davis, KE9V jeff@ke9v.net wrote:
I fail to understand why you believe your comparison to be the least bit valid?
The ARISS press release was time critical due to the fact that a school full of people were literally standing by to receive a call from the ISS that failed to take place. In addition, ARISS has additional scheduled events that may need to be re-scheduled due to the failure. Making some sort of statement quickly was necessary.
There was never an equivalent need to rush an announcement about the status of Fox 1E. I know many revel in conspiracy theories, but it’s pretty tough to “hide” a non-functional satellite from the community that helped launch it. Either this satellite will be recovered completely, partially, or it will eventually be declared dead.
(There’s even some precedence for life after death when it comes to our satellites…)
While the Engineering team continues attempts at recovery, I’m certain we will get periodic updates from them, but I’m equally certain there isn’t an accepted norm for how often or how quickly these should be made.
Jeff, KE9V
Jeff Davis, KE9V wrote:
The ARISS press release was time critical due to the fact that a school full of people were literally standing by to receive a call from the ISS that failed to take place. In addition, ARISS has additional scheduled events that may need to be re-scheduled due to the failure. Making some sort of statement quickly was necessary.
Jeff, KE9V
Jeff, was not the entire AMSAT membership waiting 3 years for the launch of Fox-1E? Was not the entire AMSAT membership waiting to have ONE functional satellite back in our fleet? ARISS events can be, and often are, rescheduled, are they not?
--Roy K3RLD
ARISS events are rescheduled.
Also, in the past when they have had issues with the equipment in the Columbus module they have used the equipment in the Russian service module temporarily.
73
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 10:54 AM Roy Dean royldean@gmail.com wrote:
Jeff, was not the entire AMSAT membership waiting 3 years for the launch of Fox-1E? Was not the entire AMSAT membership waiting to have ONE functional satellite back in our fleet? ARISS events can be, and often are, rescheduled, are they not?
--Roy K3RLD
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Two people responded off-list that it might be time to take this conversation off-line.
I started writing my blog before the fourth update by AMSAT on RadFxSat-2 which in my opinion was much better than previous updates.
With my blog and response to Jeff KE9V I have made all or most of the points I think I wanted to make.
If someone wants to continue the dialogue I am fine with doing that offline.
Good luck to AMSAT in recovering RadFxSat-2.
Enjoy the birds and 73,
John Brier KG4AKV
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 10:57 AM John Brier johnbrier@gmail.com wrote:
ARISS events are rescheduled.
Also, in the past when they have had issues with the equipment in the Columbus module they have used the equipment in the Russian service module temporarily.
73
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 10:54 AM Roy Dean royldean@gmail.com wrote:
Jeff, was not the entire AMSAT membership waiting 3 years for the launch of Fox-1E? Was not the entire AMSAT membership waiting to have ONE functional satellite back in our fleet? ARISS events can be, and often are, rescheduled, are they not?
--Roy K3RLD
Sent via AMSAT-BB(a)amsat.org. AMSAT-NA makes this open forum available to all interested persons worldwide without requiring membership. Opinions expressed are solely those of the author, and do not reflect the official views of AMSAT-NA. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
View archives of this mailing list at https://mailman.amsat.org/hyperkitty/list/amsat-bb@amsat.org To unsubscribe send an email to amsat-bb-leave(a)amsat.org Manage all of your AMSAT-NA mailing list preferences at https://mailman.amsat.org
participants (4)
-
Jeff Davis, KE9V -
John Brier -
Joseph Armbruster -
Roy Dean