Has anyone had any experience with any success at DTMF working on HF for some rudimentary commands?
I know tuning is critical as well as inter-tone noise must be way down.
Just thought maybe someone has experimented with it.
Bob, WB4aPR
I doubt that it would be useful because the tolerances are extremely high in DTMF so if you are only a few Hz off the tones won't lock. FM might be ok but certainly not SSB. FM itself has its own problems on HF so that might not be useable either.
Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE Grid-EL09uf Eagle Creek Observatory http://www.eaglecreekobservatory.org I'd be unstoppable if it weren't for law enforcement and physics
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 11:10 AM To: aprssig@tapr.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] DTMF on HF?
Has anyone had any experience with any success at DTMF working on HF for some rudimentary commands?
I know tuning is critical as well as inter-tone noise must be way down.
Just thought maybe someone has experimented with it.
Bob, WB4aPR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
In days past, the telephone companies ran an analog carrier system of 24 SSB channels with what was called a pilot tone at a reduced level. The pilot was indeed a carrier reference that was PLL to the office master clock. These 0-4 Khz channels could get off on the receiving end, but a "satellite doppler" type tracking circuit PPL to the incoming pilot tone kept everything in the pass band of the specific crystal filters for each channel. Bear in mind we expected pilot error in the CPS range, rather than 10s or 100s of cycles.
I would think one can design this to work with today's digital components rather than use the "rock solid" crystal filters this L Multiplex phone equipment did back in the day. Connect the pilot tone receive PLL to control the receive RF oscillator. I suspect it would work if the barn door was not too wide for the PLL to lock on. May get expensive if you have to use the crystals from yesteryear.
73 Jim WA4IVM
On 1/10/2014 2:28 PM, Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE wrote:
I doubt that it would be useful because the tolerances are extremely high in DTMF so if you are only a few Hz off the tones won't lock. FM might be ok but certainly not SSB. FM itself has its own problems on HF so that might not be useable either.
Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE Grid-EL09uf Eagle Creek Observatory http://www.eaglecreekobservatory.org I'd be unstoppable if it weren't for law enforcement and physics
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 11:10 AM To: aprssig@tapr.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] DTMF on HF?
Has anyone had any experience with any success at DTMF working on HF for some rudimentary commands?
I know tuning is critical as well as inter-tone noise must be way down.
Just thought maybe someone has experimented with it.
Bob, WB4aPR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
I sometimes listen to the HF ATC station from New York Center talking to the planes going to the Caribbean while working on the laptop in the shack. They transmit selcall to the planes to make sure they can be alerted. The selcall code is always 4 letters. They send two "tones" I always thought the 4 letters meant two tones together and another two together just like DTMF but I must be wrong.
Rick WB3CSY Sent from Rick's iPad2
On Jan 10, 2014, at 4:45 PM, Jim Wright wrightjrjr@verizon.net wrote:
In days past, the telephone companies ran an analog carrier system of 24 SSB channels with what was called a pilot tone at a reduced level. The pilot was indeed a carrier reference that was PLL to the office master clock. These 0-4 Khz channels could get off on the receiving end, but a "satellite doppler" type tracking circuit PPL to the incoming pilot tone kept everything in the pass band of the specific crystal filters for each channel. Bear in mind we expected pilot error in the CPS range, rather than 10s or 100s of cycles.
I would think one can design this to work with today's digital components rather than use the "rock solid" crystal filters this L Multiplex phone equipment did back in the day. Connect the pilot tone receive PLL to control the receive RF oscillator. I suspect it would work if the barn door was not too wide for the PLL to lock on. May get expensive if you have to use the crystals from yesteryear.
73 Jim WA4IVM
On 1/10/2014 2:28 PM, Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE wrote: I doubt that it would be useful because the tolerances are extremely high in DTMF so if you are only a few Hz off the tones won't lock. FM might be ok but certainly not SSB. FM itself has its own problems on HF so that might not be useable either.
Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE Grid-EL09uf Eagle Creek Observatory http://www.eaglecreekobservatory.org I'd be unstoppable if it weren't for law enforcement and physics
-----Original Message----- From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 11:10 AM To: aprssig@tapr.org Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org Subject: [amsat-bb] DTMF on HF?
Has anyone had any experience with any success at DTMF working on HF for some rudimentary commands?
I know tuning is critical as well as inter-tone noise must be way down.
Just thought maybe someone has experimented with it.
Bob, WB4aPR _______________________________________________ Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
Hello Bob, Good Saturday from Bill - WD8ARZ the Geiger Counter HF Mobile dude .... hi hi
The topics / Links below might be some starting points to take in other directions for what your looking for Bob. These links are ham hf radio related, though there are hf aircraft versions as you know.
Though the MarsAle group I have been in for more than a decade has had selcodes assigned by Bonnie to be used on HF, it didnt catch on as far as I know. Plenty of software out there for this mode, such as multipsk.
Suspect this will at least generate some conversations.... hi hi
73 from Bill - WD8ARZ ============================= Selective Calling (SELCAL) and ALE http://hflink.com/articles/
HF Selcall Evolution File Format: Microsoft Powerpoint 1. The Evolution of Codan Selcall ......In the beginning God created 493.1 (Kyoto 1978) by means of CCIR. 2. Basic 4 Digit Selcall ......And 493.1 begat the Codan ...
hflink.com hflink.com/selcall/Selcall%20evolution.ppt
International Amateur Radio HF Selcall Channels All types of HF Digital Selective Calling CCIR 493 or ITU-M R.493 DSC http://hflink.com/selcall/channels/
HF Selcall This is an informational resource for HF Selcall. Selcall CCIR 493-4 is the primary focus of this resource, and the variations of it that have been developed for modern HF selective calling. References for ITU-R M.493-n (Marine GMDSS DSC) types of digital selective calling also are included. The long term objective of this resource is to provide information about the use of these types of HF Selcall in various radio communication services. Please refer to the original documents of the various standards and recommendations for more detail and updates. http://hflink.com/selcall/ =============================
On 1/10/2014 12:10 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with any success at DTMF working on HF for some rudimentary commands?
I know tuning is critical as well as inter-tone noise must be way down.
Just thought maybe someone has experimented with it.
Bob, WB4aPR
WD8ARZ Bill will be Geiger Mobile on the road from TN to Indiana tomorrow morning unless weather is an issue. Will be running Geiger Graph Program version 5 dated 01/13/05 on Samsung i7 Windows7 Laptop.
Internet will feed the Inspector Alert Counts Per Minute (CPM) to the Mineralab Radiation Map.http://www.radiationnetwork.com/ Leaving from East of Nashville, TN headed for South Bend, Indiana. Using GPS my Geiger station icon will move North as I drive and is trackable on the map.
Will also be active on HF frequencies such as 7225 LSB and 14346 USB for voice chats. APRS will be Vhf transmitted using the callsign / ssid of WD8ARZ-9.
Voice schedules are welcome.
Running TS-480HX 200 Watts into a HiQ 5/160 Screwdriver Antenna
73 from Bill - WD8ARZ Geiger Counter Station named NULL WD8ARZ-7 HT TH-D7AG - APRS WD8ARZ-9 Mobile TM-D700AG - APRS 100hz pl - Monitoring 146.52 WD8ARZ-10 Android Smart Phone - APRSdroid and U2APRS - APRS APRS Viewer on Android for displaying APRS stations only, no beacon / transmitting. Using Kenwood's SkyCommand mode to operate HF with my HT Monitoring 7225 Lsb & 14.346 Usb from time to time
participants (5)
-
Jim Wright -
Kevin Muenzler, WB5RUE -
Rick Walter -
Robert Bruninga -
WD8ARZ