Re: Satellites need to be open source
... Why aren't the schematics ... posted on the internet?
Geeze, I am holding AO-51 schematics in my hand ... and at the last AMSAT-NA convention, the proceedings book has a ton of info ...
I think the info IS out there. AMSAT-NA doesn't seem to be hiding anything.
Clint Bradford, K6LCS 909-241-7666
On 12 Nov 2009 at 13:02, Clint Bradford wrote:
Date sent: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:02:58 -0800 From: Clint Bradford clintbrad4d@earthlink.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellites need to be open source To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
... Why aren't the schematics ... posted on the internet?
I think the info IS out there. AMSAT-NA doesn't seem to be hiding anything.
If all is publicly open how ITAR seems to prevent disclosure of the very same technology used by AMSAT-NA or anyone else! there is already know SDR and others widely available technology very well documented....
It will be useful to see the papers issued by ITAR afficionados against AMSAT-NA to see what they have made wrong and against ITAR rules? They surely pointed out some inappropriate actions and the disclosure of theses inappropriate actions will help a lot of us as many are already transferring notes schematic data files and so on in a way to share satellite technology between ham's.
I already received some request about DSTAR coding and DSTAR technology information from some universities and i'm exchanging files on the very same subject with europe can i violate ITAR or those in the US who send me some files are they violating ITAR?
I got at a hamfest a "special" transmitter who was supposed to be a very wide VHF transmitter but the output is made only of white noise with hissing special effect... as usual i come up with the first conclusion that i got another piece of scrap but pushing a bit more my search i found it was an exciter part of a power chain apparently made on purpose to transmit only noise... be my guess what the primary use of this transmitter was but how many of us can stumble on some weird piece of equipment and when making theses items available for swap of for sale did we violate ITAR?
The disclosure of the ITAR rules apparently violated by AMSAT-NA will only help us to see if we are on the right track or on the side one.
P.S. i got a Power Supply who come up with my unmark noise transmiter it is a Qualidyne switching power supply model 9010E-1Z-001 SN: 70121 it is rated for 1200Watts 12V at 100amps if any one can help me finding at least the schematic in a way to find how to switch it on. Only the fan start when i plugged it into the AC main.
Thank's
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
Since you are in Canada you don't have to worry about U.S. laws.
73,
John KD6OZH
----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Cc: eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 07:54 UTC Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellites need to be open source
On 12 Nov 2009 at 13:02, Clint Bradford wrote:
Date sent: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:02:58 -0800 From: Clint Bradford clintbrad4d@earthlink.net Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellites need to be open source To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
... Why aren't the schematics ... posted on the internet?
I think the info IS out there. AMSAT-NA doesn't seem to be hiding anything.
If all is publicly open how ITAR seems to prevent disclosure of the very same technology used by AMSAT-NA or anyone else! there is already know SDR and others widely available technology very well documented....
It will be useful to see the papers issued by ITAR afficionados against AMSAT-NA to see what they have made wrong and against ITAR rules? They surely pointed out some inappropriate actions and the disclosure of theses inappropriate actions will help a lot of us as many are already transferring notes schematic data files and so on in a way to share satellite technology between ham's.
I already received some request about DSTAR coding and DSTAR technology information from some universities and i'm exchanging files on the very same subject with europe can i violate ITAR or those in the US who send me some files are they violating ITAR?
I got at a hamfest a "special" transmitter who was supposed to be a very wide VHF transmitter but the output is made only of white noise with hissing special effect... as usual i come up with the first conclusion that i got another piece of scrap but pushing a bit more my search i found it was an exciter part of a power chain apparently made on purpose to transmit only noise... be my guess what the primary use of this transmitter was but how many of us can stumble on some weird piece of equipment and when making theses items available for swap of for sale did we violate ITAR?
The disclosure of the ITAR rules apparently violated by AMSAT-NA will only help us to see if we are on the right track or on the side one.
P.S. i got a Power Supply who come up with my unmark noise transmiter it is a Qualidyne switching power supply model 9010E-1Z-001 SN: 70121 it is rated for 1200Watts 12V at 100amps if any one can help me finding at least the schematic in a way to find how to switch it on. Only the fan start when i plugged it into the AC main.
Thank's
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
On 13 Nov 2009 at 18:04, John B. Stephensen wrote:
Date sent: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:04:52 +0000 From: "John B. Stephensen" kd6ozh@comcast.net Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellites need to be open source To: Luc Leblanc lucleblanc6@videotron.ca, amsat-bb@amsat.org Copies to: eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com
Since you are in Canada you don't have to worry about U.S. laws.
73,
John KD6OZH
Good question John
I can govern myself as i put my my head in the sand ignoring the rest of the world but i have a hobby who make's me communicate through a medium called "satellite" and those satellites ignore the frontier or the boundaries. There is a wide concensus about extending those geographical limitations using a satellite with a highly elliptical orbit namely called HEO. There is one in the making in Germany just near to be completed and a WORLDWIDE AMATEUR RADIO SPIRIT is needed to help them to complete and launch this new HEO.
I'm worried so much about amateur radio satellite that i suggested numerous ideas in the past in a way to help finding a replacement for AO- 40. Could be i'm wrong but i'm only asking AMSAT-NA and namely his BOD to disclose the papers/letters condemning AMSAT-NA and or his BOD or staff for ITAR violations.
I'm guessing at the last general AMSAT-NA meeting the BOD put in the members assembly notes the copy of those letters from the ITAR afficionados? If not it will a great help for us and for all the US amateur radio operators to see where they can be wrong in their actions regarding ITAR.
You are right when you wrote "you don't have to worry about U.S. laws" it's not of my concern but i'm asking only for a disclosure of the condemning letter coming from ITAR about presuming rules violation by AMSAT-NA.
All the AMSAT financial report are already available on AMSAT-NA web site why not put copy of those letters on the web site? it will not hurt anyone but it will be a great help for all of those who wants to exchange stuff with US hams and probably numerous US hams who are probably in a huge void actually about what they can do or not.
When i got a speeding ticket i have a piece of paper and AMSAT-NA probably got one or two letters also?
What do you think about that John?
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
AMSAT-NA has aleady disclosed everything that people need to know which is that U.S. residents need government permission to contribute technically to a foreign satellite project and the foreign nationals may be required to sign agreements that they will obey U.S. rules. The text of ITAR is feely available on the web by doing a Google search. There's no reason to disclose any dunning letters from the government.
73,
John KD6OZH
----- Original Message ----- From: "Luc Leblanc" lucleblanc6@videotron.ca To: amsat-bb@amsat.org Cc: eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 04:43 UTC Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellites need to be open source
On 13 Nov 2009 at 18:04, John B. Stephensen wrote:
Date sent: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:04:52 +0000 From: "John B. Stephensen" kd6ozh@comcast.net Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Re: Satellites need to be open source To: Luc Leblanc lucleblanc6@videotron.ca, amsat-bb@amsat.org Copies to: eu-amsat@yahoogroups.com
Since you are in Canada you don't have to worry about U.S. laws.
73,
John KD6OZH
Good question John
I can govern myself as i put my my head in the sand ignoring the rest of the world but i have a hobby who make's me communicate through a medium called "satellite" and those satellites ignore the frontier or the boundaries. There is a wide concensus about extending those geographical limitations using a satellite with a highly elliptical orbit namely called HEO. There is one in the making in Germany just near to be completed and a WORLDWIDE AMATEUR RADIO SPIRIT is needed to help them to complete and launch this new HEO.
I'm worried so much about amateur radio satellite that i suggested numerous ideas in the past in a way to help finding a replacement for AO- 40. Could be i'm wrong but i'm only asking AMSAT-NA and namely his BOD to disclose the papers/letters condemning AMSAT-NA and or his BOD or staff for ITAR violations.
I'm guessing at the last general AMSAT-NA meeting the BOD put in the members assembly notes the copy of those letters from the ITAR afficionados? If not it will a great help for us and for all the US amateur radio operators to see where they can be wrong in their actions regarding ITAR.
You are right when you wrote "you don't have to worry about U.S. laws" it's not of my concern but i'm asking only for a disclosure of the condemning letter coming from ITAR about presuming rules violation by AMSAT-NA.
All the AMSAT financial report are already available on AMSAT-NA web site why not put copy of those letters on the web site? it will not hurt anyone but it will be a great help for all of those who wants to exchange stuff with US hams and probably numerous US hams who are probably in a huge void actually about what they can do or not.
When i got a speeding ticket i have a piece of paper and AMSAT-NA probably got one or two letters also?
What do you think about that John?
"-"
Luc Leblanc VE2DWE Skype VE2DWE www.qsl.net/ve2dwe DSTAR urcall VE2DWE WAC BASIC CW PHONE SATELLITE
Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
.
I'm guessing at the last general AMSAT-NA meeting the BOD put in the members assembly notes the copy of those letters from the ITAR afficionados? If not it will a great help for us and for all the US amateur radio operators to see where they can be wrong in their actions regarding ITAR.
You are right when you wrote "you don't have to worry about U.S. laws" it's not of my concern but i'm asking only for a disclosure of the condemning letter coming from ITAR about presuming rules violation by AMSAT-NA.
All the AMSAT financial report are already available on AMSAT-NA web site why not put copy of those letters on the web site? it will not hurt anyone but it will be a great help for all of those who wants to exchange stuff with US hams and probably numerous US hams who are probably in a huge void actually about what they can do or not.
Unfortunately, ITAR and the federal government doesn't work that way in this case. When AMSAT filed a voluntary disclosure describing our activities, including P3E, the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls replied that we had indeed violated ITAR. The frustrating part is that they did not identify what activities were violations and which were not. It does not help the situation that AMSAT is not the normal scenario that they deal with, and as is common with government, it is easier for them to say no than to say yes. So, despite being given a pass on our past activities we are still without firm guidance on how to move forward without risking repeat violations, and the very real threat of jail or fines. Personally, there is no AMSAT project conceivable to me that would be worth even the slightest chance of being deprived of my liberty.
All of the interaction with the government regarding ITAR costs very real money that we don't have much of now. At some point there is a decision to be made whether to continue to expend resources on ITAR issues, or to avoid them as much as possible and concentrate on domestic projects only.
Luc, if you want me to participate in further conversations about this or other topics, keep this conversation sane. The minute it devolves to the normal BOD-bashing I will QRT.
73, Drew KO4MA
Actually, in the eyes of ITAR administrators, I am sure the act of a "foreign national" asking publicly for ""sensitive"" technology matters such as the details of construction for satellites could raise more than a few eyebrows.
If an individual wishes to come to the US and obtain publicly available journals/research papers that is sold by an institution such as AIAA, IEEE which contains basic discoveries and CANNOT results that can be utilized directly in building satellites, ITAR actually allows that. For information, read the ITAR links I have posted earlier. However, for questions that specifically target "How do you"... the individual may want to be careful as not to get to become an interesting target of inquiry by a variety of agencies looking for moles.
An example from another industry: If you go to visit UK as a US national, all is fine, no visa required. However if you are a foreign national living in the US, you have to go through a biometric investigation and a complete biography review (dad/mom/children/job) before a visa is issued and the data is kept for *10 years* and shared with other governments, regardless of the type of visit or duration (1 day to many days). I shudder to think if an international person were to be identified in a public way of being inquisitive and interested to obtain ITAR classified documents, and boasting about it publicly on an open website - what would happen if they were the target of U.S. Gov't action ?
http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/366108/32/ARTCL/none/EXCON/1/ITAR-com...
Luc, specifically, your questions may be answered by Page 17 onwards of the following presentation: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=8&ved=0C...
However, if you insist that you want to know something now that is still in the laboratory R&D process and not yet published that is not going to help in the setup of an ITAR compliance system at AMSAT and I would like to ask you not to pursue that track. You can always subscribe to academic journals (AIAA, IEEE) to obtain the results of published, and ITAR cleared, research). AMSAT journals are only collated, and are not referred rigorously ! Hopefully they will change to a more peer reviewed model in the future.
Samudra N3RDX
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:04 PM, John B. Stephensen kd6ozh@comcast.netwrote:
Since you are in Canada you don't have to worry about U.S. laws.
73,
John KD6OZH over
resend due to origin address snafu
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Samudra Haque samudra.haque@gmail.comwrote:
Actually, in the eyes of ITAR administrators, I am sure the act of a "foreign national" asking publicly for ""sensitive"" technology matters such as the details of construction for satellites could raise more than a few eyebrows.
If an individual wishes to come to the US and obtain publicly available journals/research papers that is sold by an institution such as AIAA, IEEE which contains basic discoveries and CANNOT results that can be utilized directly in building satellites, ITAR actually allows that. For information, read the ITAR links I have posted earlier. However, for questions that specifically target "How do you"... the individual may want to be careful as not to get to become an interesting target of inquiry by a variety of agencies looking for moles.
An example from another industry: If you go to visit UK as a US national, all is fine, no visa required. However if you are a foreign national living in the US, you have to go through a biometric investigation and a complete biography review (dad/mom/children/job) before a visa is issued and the data is kept for *10 years* and shared with other governments, regardless of the type of visit or duration (1 day to many days). I shudder to think if an international person were to be identified in a public way of being inquisitive and interested to obtain ITAR classified documents, and boasting about it publicly on an open website - what would happen if they were the target of U.S. Gov't action ?
http://mae.pennnet.com/display_article/366108/32/ARTCL/none/EXCON/1/ITAR-com...
Luc, specifically, your questions may be answered by Page 17 onwards of the following presentation:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=8&ved=0C...
However, if you insist that you want to know something now that is still in the laboratory R&D process and not yet published that is not going to help in the setup of an ITAR compliance system at AMSAT and I would like to ask you not to pursue that track. You can always subscribe to academic journals (AIAA, IEEE) to obtain the results of published, and ITAR cleared, research). AMSAT journals are only collated, and are not referred rigorously ! Hopefully they will change to a more peer reviewed model in the future.
Samudra N3RDX
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:04 PM, John B. Stephensen kd6ozh@comcast.netwrote:
Since you are in Canada you don't have to worry about U.S. laws.
73,
John KD6OZH over
participants (6)
-
Andrew Glasbrenner -
Clint Bradford -
John B. Stephensen -
Luc Leblanc -
Samudra Haque -
Samudra Haque N3RDX & S21X